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G30 (2017 - Current)
The next generation 5 Series, chassis code G30, arrives at dealers in February 2017. Looking like a scaled down 7 Series and riding on the CLAR platform, the new 5 Series will have a focus on lightweight and sporty performance. Engines options will come from BMW's new B family for the 530 and 540 and a turbocharged V8 for the M550i. Read more about the 2017 5 Series

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  #1  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:24 PM
bertola bertola is offline
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I've had 5 BMW's in a row - made a change & LOVE it !

Had four 5 series including a G30. 540i, and a 650I convertable before that. Really loved driving all of them! But it's time for something new... and the family got hooked - the teslas are fantastic cool cars - if you are on the fence thinking of trying one just go for it!! Anyway, here's 4 new Teslas parked at my house!

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  #2  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:37 PM
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They ARE nice cars, I have several friends and family members with model S or model X. Great performing as well. I just find them a bit uninspiring without the engine noise, and up and down shifts. But who can deny the low maintenance costs?
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:46 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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Tesla cars perform well. Hopefully they will bring up the interior fit and finish of their cars to compete a bit better with BMW and Mercedes on that front.

Great time to be alive as cars were looking dead about a decade ago and now we're seeing a lot of innovation. It is great.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
I just find them a bit uninspiring without the engine noise, and up and down shifts.
If only they would pump in engine noise like the I-8.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:31 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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If all you do is commute in them, then it's a viable option. I have a friend that decided to do a trip from Houston to Tulsa in his. He came home ready to sell it. The charging station network is not even close to meeting today's needs, let alone if full electrics start selling in big numbers. Right now they are still a pimple on an elephants ass in sales.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:17 AM
propchef propchef is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
If all you do is commute in them, then it's a viable option. I have a friend that decided to do a trip from Houston to Tulsa in his. He came home ready to sell it. The charging station network is not even close to meeting today's needs, let alone if full electrics start selling in big numbers. Right now they are still a pimple on an elephants ass in sales.
Audis sold in 2019 in the US: 224,111
Jag/Land Rover: 125,787
BMW: 324,826
Porsche: 61,568
Teslas sold in the US during the same period: 192,250


I'd say that's a serious challenge.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:20 AM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Audis sold in 2019 in the US: 224,111
Jag/Land Rover: 125,787
BMW: 324,826
Porsche: 61,568
Teslas sold in the US during the same period: 192,250


I'd say that's a serious challenge.
EVs are a tiny fraction of the overall auto market. But they are a major player in the US Luxury market.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:40 AM
propchef propchef is online now
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
EVs are a tiny fraction of the overall auto market. But they are a major player in the US Luxury market.
They're a major player everywhere.


If you compare the Tesla within categories (mid-size, compact, etc.), then Tesla holds far more than a "tiny fraction" of the market. When compared to sales of the 3-series, the Model 3 is light years ahead in sales.

BMW 3-series: 12,993
Tesla Model 3: 47,000

Quote:
The Model 3 has a similar base price point to the other vehicles on the charts featured below, but it has much lower cost of ownership, much better tech (infotainment tech and autonomous driving tech), record-breaking safety scores, and unmatched performance. There's really not a solid reason to buy another car in this class. Aside from some buyers not liking the design of the Model 3 for some reason and choosing a competing car, I presume that sales of other models in this price range are simply due to inertia - societal inertia, marketing inertia, and internal illogical inertia. Actually, even a distaste for the design may simply be due to psychological inertia.

Nonetheless, the story today is not that there should be more Model 3 demand. It's that the Model 3 was sold more than 3 times more than the runner-up BMW 3 Series, or a bit less than 3 times more than the BMW 3/4 Series. No class in this category comes close to matching the Model 3.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10...y-a-landslide/


EVs are far more popular in Europe than in the US. Sales of ICE vehicles softened last year while sales of EVs and plug-in hybrids rose in double digits.

Quote:
In the full-year 2019, the registration of electrically chargeable passenger vehicles in the European Union (EU) and EFTA countries increased by 46% to 564,225 cars. The sales of battery-electric cars grew by an even faster 81% to 365,372 cars. The Netherlands surpassed Norway as the market leader for battery electric vehicles while Germany overtook the United Kingdom as the largest market for plug-in hybrid vehicles in Europe.

---

The market for electrically chargeable vehicles in the EU and EFTA grew by more than 175,000 cars during 2019 to increase market share from 2% to 3.6% compared to 2018.


---


Strong growth in the sales of electric cars in Europe is expected in 2020. This is due both to the availability of more electric car models but even more as a result of heavy fines that the EU will impose on carmakers producing cars with high CO2 output unless balances out by low-emission vehicles. A 260% growth was forecasted for the UK in 2020.
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/el...-efta-country/



Last edited by propchef; 02-11-2020 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:52 AM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propchef View Post
They're a major player everywhere.


If you compare the Tesla within catagories (mid-size, compact, etc.), then Tesla holds far more than a "tiny fraction" of the market. When compared to sales of the 3-series, the Model 3 is light years ahead in sales.



https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10...y-a-landslide/


EVs are far more popular in Europe than in the US. Sales of ICE vehicles softened last year while sales of EVs and plug-in hybrids rose in double digits.



https://www.best-selling-cars.com/el...-efta-country/


EVs are the fastest growing segment of the auto industry. I'm not disputing that (I own a PHEV and am a major fan of the electrification of cars)....

But the overall car sales in the US EVs are still under 4%.

There are some obstacles left to be overcome still and valid reasons why every buyer can't treat an EV as a full replacement for a ICE car (I still think the US market will move toward PHEVs for a long time until the kinks are sorted).

Europe is a wholly different landscape as they are heavily pushing people away from ICE cars via taxation, regulation, and soon bans. For instance, in the EU and many countries you pay a yearly tax based on your cars pollution output. This gets eliminated with an EV which helps to overcome a large amount of the cost differential between ICE and EV. This is in addition to the high gas prices they have as well. Here in the US we lack a similar structure so EV adoption will be slower (but we also have a VERY large market so you can still make massive strides with a lower overall adoption).

But this isn't to make it an EV or not EV thread. I keep an eye on Tesla and I would be open to them once they upscale their interior a bit more and get better on privacy.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:55 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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We considered an EV as my partnerís daily driver and airport commuter (82 miles of gruesome traffic to SFO and another 82 miles back...)
Decided against it after looking at cost of the car, weighing in pace at which the technology is evolving, and the fact that he keeps his daily cars 7 to 10 years. He got another Mini and I hear no complaints.
Iím not even looking at one until the range gets closer to 400 and their interior materials improve at a price of about $70k.


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Old 02-11-2020, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
If all you do is commute in them, then it's a viable option. I have a friend that decided to do a trip from Houston to Tulsa in his. He came home ready to sell it. The charging station network is not even close to meeting today's needs...
A friend of mine worked for Tesla, and he reports that it's a piece of cake in California. For the rest of us in 'merica, the charging stations are just not close enough and/or convenient enough.

I considered the model S several times, and it would be fine as my commuter car, but I'd hate to spend $100K+ and still have to rent a car for those long trips.
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:30 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I read somewhere that a BMW 5 Series is the car most likely to be traded in on a Tesla. You know somebody in one of those round towers in Munich is thinking about that real hard.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:46 PM
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Drove them twice before deciding on my M550....granted BMW is criticized for piping exhaust sound through the speakers but I just could not get past the lack of sound for any electric vehicle.

Not a big fan of the styling of any Tesla's but from an engineering and tech point of view, they are awesome

Congrats and safe driving
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Old 02-11-2020, 05:22 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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I read somewhere that a BMW 5 Series is the car most likely to be traded in on a Tesla. You know somebody in one of those round towers in Munich is thinking about that real hard.
I've read somewhere that the BMW 5-series was one of the few cars that had better owner satisfaction than the Tesla S. Mine new was about half the price of the Tesla....
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:13 AM
DBV DBV is online now
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I have considered the Tesla S, but there is no way I can get that, when I drive 18,000 to 20,000 miles a year. EV cars are not made for long distance travel yet, unless you have the patience to look for charging stations, which are still few and far between. They need to get the range much higher too for my type of driving. EV's are great for local driving, but even then may not make sense, since gas is so cheap right now. The last thingI want to do on my trips is worry about range and planning around a charging station and the range is even worse in winters.

For my type of driving, would take a diesel any day, but those are getting harder to find in a BMW.

Last edited by DBV; 02-12-2020 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:27 AM
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EV's are great for local driving, but even then may not make sense, since gas is so cheap right now.

For my type of driving, would take a diesel any day, but those are getting harder to find in a BMW.
My wife works in DC, and charging an EV at a paid station costs more the equivalent mileage in gas.

RE: diesels - I'm keeping my X5D for a long time.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:55 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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My wife works in DC, and charging an EV at a paid station costs more the equivalent mileage in gas.

RE: diesels - I'm keeping my X5D for a long time.
what does she drive and where is she plugging in?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:48 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Audis sold in 2019 in the US: 224,111
Jag/Land Rover: 125,787
BMW: 324,826
Porsche: 61,568
Teslas sold in the US during the same period: 192,250


I'd say that's a serious challenge.
You missed my point. I'm saying that electric cars are a very small percentage of the total vehicles sold. I'm not comparing it to competitors. 17 million vehicles are sold in the U.S. annually. My point is that we are not even remotely close to having an infrastructure to support charging of any significant growth. My friend who went from Houston to Tulsa and back had issues charging his car.
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Last edited by jjsC6; 02-12-2020 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:55 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
You missed my point. I'm saying that electric cars are a very small percentage of the total vehicles sold. I'm not comparing it to competitors. 17 million vehicles are sold in the U.S. annually. My point is that we are not even remotely close to having an infrastructure to support charging of any significant growth. My friend who went from Houston to Tulsa and back had issues charging his car.
There is no question that range can still be an issue. It is why I am driving a 530e phev. But I am a one car family. If you have multiple cars, which most families have, then having one BEV can make a lot of sense.

There very well could be trips where there are an absence of charging options. Having a phev or ICE vehicle as well will solve that problem.

Tesla makes a great car. Could it improve its fit and finish, sure. But so could BMW (I find it hard to believe that BMW doesn't offer a nappa choice in the three series but only the crappy Dakota).
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:30 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
There is no question that range can still be an issue. It is why I am driving a 530e phev. But I am a one car family. If you have multiple cars, which most families have, then having one BEV can make a lot of sense.

There very well could be trips where there are an absence of charging options. Having a phev or ICE vehicle as well will solve that problem.

Tesla makes a great car. Could it improve its fit and finish, sure. But so could BMW (I find it hard to believe that BMW doesn't offer a nappa choice in the three series but only the crappy Dakota).
Agreed. I have a PHEV for the same reason (and I live in the city and street park so I could have a issue securing my charging spot occasionally). PHEVs are the future IMHO because they can straddle both worlds really well. Once we're seeing 50-100 mile range PHEVs across most makes and models we will see EVs start to dominate auto sales (and charging infrastructure slowing coming up to speed).

BMW and other car makers are masters at market segmentation. Its the same reason the 5 series in Canada has BMW Laserlights, but the US market can't get them. Cars are quite a bit more expensive in Canada so sales of the 7 series are super thin, but in the US the 7 sells well. Holding back on some features will ensure the 5 series doesn't cannibalize 7 series sales and the same is true when looking at 3 vs 5 feature options.

I wonder if this will start to shift with the aggressive push for technology innovation in cars. Increasingly buyers are less interested in fit and finish and more interested in the Techical features and frequent updates as Tesla has so keenly proven.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:11 PM
richpat69 richpat69 is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
There is no question that range can still be an issue. It is why I am driving a 530e phev. But I am a one car family. If you have multiple cars, which most families have, then having one BEV can make a lot of sense.

There very well could be trips where there are an absence of charging options. Having a phev or ICE vehicle as well will solve that problem.

Tesla makes a great car. Could it improve its fit and finish, sure. But so could BMW (I find it hard to believe that BMW doesn't offer a nappa choice in the three series but only the crappy Dakota).
In theory, an EV has a huge number of advantages over an ICE vehicle. Torque, simplicity of drive train, ability to "fill up" your tank in your garage by plugging a wire in...lots of pluses.

I've done some work as an IP lawyer on EV tech and they are making progress. Tesla is helping immensely with its sale volume, but EV's still represent a tiny percentage of cars.

There is still a ways to go, particularly with batteries. Three things must happen for batteries to work well. They must have adequate charge density which equates to mileage per charge, be able to be recharged quickly and not have significant degradation after a substantial number of charge/recharge cycles. While battery tech is getting better, it still has a ways to go. Charge density and battery weight are also related. Reducing battery weight is a huge deal.

Tesla's Model 3 has done well with miles per charge but some of the gain has come from the use of a new motor with a more efficient stator. Living in Michigan, with cold winters, your miles per charge takes a big hit because of the cold. Recharge times are still taking longer than one would want. Local driving with full overnight recharge is great, but it still takes too long, IMO, when stopping at a charging station. Lithium batteries are getting better but I still think we are a generation away from being where we need to be.

With billions being spent on battery R&D, I don't think it will take too much longer until we are there although projected adoption figures suggest many decades until EV's really start becoming a substantial percentage of cars on the road.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:31 PM
BobinIl BobinIl is offline
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I've watched some videos on Out Of Spec Motoring and the guy has taken some extended road trips in Teslas. I find them interesting, but where he views the stops for charging, finding faster chargers and finding things to do while charging as an adventure, I'd still view them as way too much of a major inconvenience and PITA and am not there yet on an EV for any type of travel. Some of his videos show him sitting in deserted parking areas in the middle of the night but he's smiling the whole time and seemingly enjoying it. It's good learning for me though.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
what does she drive and where is she plugging in?
530e - her commute is about 16 miles, so the 530e does fine when leaving the house. Her building has Chargepoint stations inside, and she says it's about $5 per session (90octane is about $2.85/g). Or she can charge for free with a 120v plug if she can find a spot near one.

We also chose the 530e for the ~400 mile range because she does travel for work quite often, and takes our boys to LBI in the summer for long weekends when I go on fishing trips.
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Last edited by hsindogg; 02-12-2020 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:57 PM
jabloomf1230 jabloomf1230 is offline
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Here's my (and my wife's) BMW story. In order: 1972 2002, 1972 2002tii, 1972 3.0CS (still have it), 2005 330xi, 2013 X1, 2014 X1, 2016 X1 and presently a 2019 530e.

And sadly, because even though they initially pioneered a pretty novel BEV in the i3, BMW resisted developing BEVs.

As a result, I have a Tesla Model Y on order.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:02 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Originally Posted by hsindogg View Post
530e - her commute is about 16 miles, so the 530e does fine when leaving the house. Her building has Chargepoint stations inside, and she says it's about $5 per session (90octane is about $2.85/g). Or she can charge for free with a 120v plug if she can find a spot near one.

We also chose the 530e for the ~400 mile range because she does travel for work quite often, and takes our boys to LBI in the summer for long weekends when I go on fishing trips.
I find that with the relatively small battery in the phev, for me it doesn't make sense to charge at a destination. I charge at home and when it runs out of charge I just use it as a regular hybrid until I get home and charge it again.

Not ideal for your wife. Works better for me as I work mostly form home and only go into my office about every other week (about 20 miles away).
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