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  #1  
Old 06-26-2020, 03:42 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Slow and random start

My X3 2008 has been working Great but recently it's been very slow to start sometimes starting right away and sometimes taking a few tries to start
It always end up starting but it definitely doesn't sounds right
Battery got checked and I changed the ground straps
And even trickle charge the battery but it still does it
Any idea of what it could be ?
DME relay ?
Starter
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:54 PM
BMWaufKS BMWaufKS is offline
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Is it the cranking that is slow, or is it cranking fine and just doesn't fire?
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  #3  
Old 06-26-2020, 11:54 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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So it's pretty random usually the first start always fail sometimes it sounds like a high pitch spinning noise ( I suppose the starter spinning ) but doesn't engage then I have to get the key back to off position and try again and sometimes same spinning noise and it seems like the starter try to engage but doesn't really make it some kind of "krrr...krr" sound then it stops
And usually on the second try it starts fine
I'm not totally sure but It also seems to start better when giving some gas...
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2020, 11:55 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Wish I could post a video
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2020, 04:55 AM
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Post a video to YouTube and then share the link here.

Description sounds like a bad starter/starter solenoid.

Iím assuming by ďbattery tested,Ē a load test was performed and not merely a static voltage test?


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Old 06-27-2020, 06:44 AM
BMWaufKS BMWaufKS is offline
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Likely is the starter; get a brand-new one (Bosch) via, e.g., RockAuto. Replace the intake manifold's "gaskets" (big o-rings), and consider replacing the crank position sender and PCV vent tube while doing the starter. Test, and possibly replace the DISA valves too.

Pulling the intake manifold is a royal PITA, so only do this job if you are tooled-up and otherwise well qualified.
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Since 1/2016, restoring a
2008 BMW X3 M-Sport, N52, automatic ("#1")
Modifications:
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Since 3/2017, also restoring a
2008 BMW X3 base-model, N52, automatic ("#2")
Modifications:
Dashcam, cargo cover, cargo mat

Parts for sale: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1382187
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:23 AM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Here are a few tries. Sometimes it just start Great, also it seems to me like the starter or something is making a weird noise when the car is running



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  #8  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:32 AM
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Sounds like the starter bendix is shot. My MK3 gave similar sounds, when I pulled the starter the bendix shaft was able to dance all around. Address the other issues while the intake is out. If you can get a long rod down to the starter through the intake runners (donít contact the positive terminals!) youíll be able to listen definitively to the starter, with the rod acting as a stethoscope.


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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

2008 BMW E83 1981 BMW 320i
2016 Chevy Silverado 2011 VW Jetta
1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:17 AM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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I got the car checked by bmw just after buying it because it had 2 recalls including the pcv valve
Shouldn't they have notice the starter or the pcv line
And the diagnostic only brought up replacing the tires which I did and replacing the valve cover gasket ( got the part but haven't replaced yet )
Replacing the oils pan gasket
Replacing the oil filter housing gasket
Should I get those as well and replace those while I'm at it ?
How much of a sterile non dusty environment do I need to avoid getting anything in the engine ?

Last edited by Tgarret; 06-27-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:39 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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In the second video, it sounds like your starter is spinning freely.
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  #11  
Old 06-27-2020, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilSideOfGood View Post
In the second video, it sounds like your starter is spinning freely.

It certainly does, but the engine isnít, which is why my first suspicion is a separated or stripped bendix/pinion (or worst case, flat spots on the flex plateís teeth caused by started a running engine). The pinion can be able to spin to its heartís content, but if it canít engage the ring gear, no-starty. Iíve also seen low voltage to the starter so the same, where the pinion spins against the flex plate but canít quite engage it.

A stethoscope or voltage probing of the starter would be worthwhile before pulling the intake on a whim. My starter made some bad sounds the last time it turned before it died, they were the sounds of 2 of the brushes being torn off and being trapped between the case and the commutator. I suggest ensuring the starter is receiving its full 12v+ voltage by probing with long test leads through the intake, using a multimeter.

There are many videos and online tutorials to take you through the process, hereís an example:

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc...on-car-tests-1


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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

2008 BMW E83 1981 BMW 320i
2016 Chevy Silverado 2011 VW Jetta
1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:46 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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In my case, about a couple yrs ago, I started having no crank problem. Most of the times it would start, especially, if I parked on the street(uphill and the gears lined up perfectly for the starter to slide back in). Since it was intermittent, it had me pull a lot of hair until I looked at the starter. As it turns out, one of the bolts holding the starter in place moved out with every start until the starter was too far out from the flywheel cuz I forgot to tighten the bolt. IIRC, I was getting terminal 15 or 30 code from the immobilizer. And that got me thinking it was electrical problem with the immobilizer or even dme.

Last edited by EvilSideOfGood; 06-27-2020 at 02:51 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:58 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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I thought about the bolt not being tight
Is there's a way to check without removing the manifold ?
Also I don't have any dash error...
I'll try to see if I can get the voltage from the starter
Thanks for the help guys
I'll keep you updated
I'm planning to go get it diagnosed at bmw on Monday but would have liked to diagnosed If not repair before
It's really weird sometimes not on the first try it starts good
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:14 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Just tested the battery and it shows 11.9v
But what's weird because I try jump starting the car with a power bank jump starter and had the same issue
Im going to another auto part store to have them test the battery and maybe buy a new battery and see what happens
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:18 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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Multiple ways,
1) You might need to remove cabin air filter housing which requires certain number torx bit, and some type of tool to drive(use) it, ratchet or driver
2) You might get lucky with a telescopic mirror(cheap) and good lighting.
3) Get a fancy borescope like I did cuz they're fun to use

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/wif...e-cal-van-cv84

I got it from fcp not amazon cuz of their kickass warranty policy
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:22 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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If the battery is the culprit you wouldn't hear anything when you turned the key and the car would never start
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:25 PM
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Slow and random start

11.9v is weak, but a reading is confounded by the DME if you tested the battery hooked up. You need to do it with the negative cable unhooked. Regardless, static volts donít matter if there is sufficient voltage drop by the time they get to the starter or the battery canít handle the load.

You can try load testing the battery with a multimeter, but need a fully charged battery (or above 12.5v). Turn the key for 10-15 seconds and watch the multimeter on the battery, voltage reading drop below 9.5v means you need a battery.


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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

2008 BMW E83 1981 BMW 320i
2016 Chevy Silverado 2011 VW Jetta
1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors

Last edited by dukedkt442; 06-27-2020 at 03:28 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:43 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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And when do you see 11.9V? After driving for a while or after trying to start the car? Multiple cranks will drain the battery. When I did compression test last week, battery voltage dropped to 11.95 at the 6th cylinder and I was able to start the car without needing jump.

Last edited by EvilSideOfGood; 06-27-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2020, 04:25 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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I only trickle charge the battery from the Jumping posts Under the hood Should I unplug it and trickle charge by itself ?
Also when I took it earlier this week to the auto part store they measured 930Camp and they said it was more than what the battery was rated for 850CCA
But it was after I Trickle charged the battery all night at 2amp (it's a smart charger So it stops when the battery is full and switch to float charging..)
And I drove for an hour
Is it possible the battery was able to provide enough power at this point but wouldn't hold charge ?
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2020, 04:39 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Just started the car after 4 tries where the starter seems to spin but doesn't engage
It did engage and start
The battery showed 10.4volt at the lowest
During the start

Last edited by Tgarret; 06-27-2020 at 04:51 PM.
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  #21  
Old 06-27-2020, 04:53 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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About the grounding straps I read somewhere they were 3 of them
I could only find the 2 under the car
Where is the one in the engine bay ?
Could it be the issue ?
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  #22  
Old 06-27-2020, 05:00 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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Your mind is looking for an easy solution, floatin your brain with these questions "what if its the battery? It can be the battery. Or its the ground strap? They're easy to check, easy to replace. Why can I not just do that to fix this problem? " but the problem is not the battery. I repeat, problem is not the battery. Again, if it was the battery, you wouldnt hear the starter spinning, the car would never even start. Check the starter or have someone do it. Thats where your diagnosis starts.

Last edited by EvilSideOfGood; 06-27-2020 at 05:02 PM.
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  #23  
Old 06-27-2020, 05:02 PM
Tgarret Tgarret is offline
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Thanks that makes sense ***x1f642;
We always want to find an easy solution ***x1f642;
I'll try to check the starter or I'll have the diagnostic done by bmw on Monday
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  #24  
Old 06-27-2020, 05:06 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Itís the starter for sure. When mine finally gave up the ghost at roughly 225k miles exact same symptoms.

A new Bosch starter, a six pack and a Saturday afternoon are beckoning you.

Itís not a bad suggestion to preemptively change out your DISAs while the manifold is out. And donít forget to buy a new pcv hose, manifold gasket set and throttle body gasket. Youíll need them.

If you have any signs of leaking on your OFHG/oil cooler gasket do those now. Itís a crazy easy job if you have manifold out already.


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  #25  
Old 06-27-2020, 05:43 PM
EvilSideOfGood EvilSideOfGood is offline
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About DISA valves; those things might be a bit expensive. If you can afford, definitely change them. At least the inner DISA. In case of another problem in the near future, you'll know its not the inner DISA. The outer DISA is easy to get to. If you can't afford, check their condition at least. You don't want DISA parts get sucked into your engine.

And you don't have to worry about the 3rd ground strap as its up high enough to not to get corroded. Behind the brake booster inside the engine compartment. Definitely replace the other two with thick, isolated ones from AZ. Sign up for rewards program before, so that transaction counts towards the $20 credit for every $20&up transaction ***x1f642;

Last edited by EvilSideOfGood; 06-27-2020 at 05:55 PM.
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