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  #1  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:21 AM
jhm5 jhm5 is offline
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In Service Date - Euro and Performance Ctr Deliveries

This subject has come up in the F30 section. It seems by my experience and others, both for my 2012 Performance Center Delivery and my 2017 European Delivery, the dealer enters the "in service date" as the date final paperwork was completed at the dealer (2 different dealers in my case), not the car was actually delivered to the client at the Performance Center or Welt.
Is this the correct practice? It chops a few weeks off of the warranty and maintenance period.
It only matters if the client doesn't notice this and takes the car in for "free" maintenance or warranty work in the few weeks after the paperwork date but before the actual delivery date.
If this is correct procedure, at the very least, BMW and dealers should be clear about this in writing and in advertising.

Thanks,
John

Last edited by jhm5; 01-11-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:42 AM
innovativeit innovativeit is offline
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You're correct that BMWNA and their dealers should be clear about this in writing and in advertising. I don't know about your specific store, but both stores, at which I have done ED and PCD deals, were good at ensuring that I understand that detail.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:23 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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According to the PCD Bulletin:

"It is handled no differently than a vehicle delivered at your retail center. The VIN must be reported as "sold" by your center on the date the vehicle is delivered to your customer by the Performance Center."

The VIN has to be in our inventory in order to report it sold. And usually that is a week ahead of the PCD date.

What this says to me is that in this case, the vehicle was in the dealer inventory a couple to a few weeks prior to the actual PCD date. That allowed the dealer to report it sold and put it on paper to count in December.

And contrary to the policy above.

Last edited by MJBrown62; 01-11-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:45 PM
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In Service Date - Euro and Performance Ctr Deliveries

I have been able to have my Center future date my 2015 435 & 2018 M4 for the actual ED delivery date, and PCD of my 2015 X5 was also future dated (had to sign FS paper work prior to leaving for ED in 2014 as I flew into GSP from FRA).

Picking up a 2018 X5M tomorrow at the PC, lease paper work was signed on Jan 2nd, 2018 (on purpose for the holiday incentives), but tracking the vehicle on BMW NA still is showing finishing touches nor has the lease account populated on BMW NA. Dealership had me sign a document that the warranty was effective as of Jan 2nd, 2018. Not much of big deal if leasing and wonít have vehicle more than 42 months (6 month max lease extension), but Iíll have the wonderful PC staff clarify.
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Last edited by Ibiza; 01-11-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:00 AM
jhm5 jhm5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
According to the PCD Bulletin:

"It is handled no differently than a vehicle delivered at your retail center. The VIN must be reported as "sold" by your center on the date the vehicle is delivered to your customer by the Performance Center."

The VIN has to be in our inventory in order to report it sold. And usually that is a week ahead of the PCD date.

What this says to me is that in this case, the vehicle was in the dealer inventory a couple to a few weeks prior to the actual PCD date. That allowed the dealer to report it sold and put it on paper to count in December.

And contrary to the policy above.
By in inventory, I presume you mean on paper, not actually present at the dealership. In my PCD case, I made a mental note of the in service date on a service invoice and made sure I got my final maintenance appointment before that. I checked my Key Data on my 2018 European Delivery and it shows the in service date as the Welt delivery date, even though arecent dealer service invoice showed the date I did paperwork with them. I presume the key data rules?
John

Last edited by jhm5; 01-12-2018 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:22 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhm5 View Post
By in inventory, I presume you mean on paper, not actually present at the dealership. In my PCD case, I made a mental note of the in service date on a service invoice and made sure I got my final maintenance appointment before that. I checked my Key Data on my 2018 European Delivery and it shows the in service date as the Welt delivery date, even though arecent dealer service invoice showed the date I did paperwork with them. I presume the key data rules?
John
Yes key data is official. Warranty expiration on nvoices from service department should match key data though.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:57 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhm5 View Post
By in inventory, I presume you mean on paper, not actually present at the dealership. In my PCD case, I made a mental note of the in service date on a service invoice and made sure I got my final maintenance appointment before that. I checked my Key Data on my 2018 European Delivery and it shows the in service date as the Welt delivery date, even though arecent dealer service invoice showed the date I did paperwork with them. I presume the key data rules?
John
Correct ... on paper. More accurately, in the digital database.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:59 AM
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"Key data"? Is that actually stored ON the key, or is that a look-up by the BMW system in response to the key data/VIN?

IMO the BMWNA look up on the dealers service report will show a 'warranty expiration date' THAT is the official date. it may be wrong, it may be the result of the dealer messing with dates, but THAT will be the date BMW uses.
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OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


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http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

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  #9  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:44 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
"Key data"? Is that actually stored ON the key, or is that a look-up by the BMW system in response to the key data/VIN?

IMO the BMWNA look up on the dealers service report will show a 'warranty expiration date' THAT is the official date. it may be wrong, it may be the result of the dealer messing with dates, but THAT will be the date BMW uses.
The key data part is on the key, e.g. mileage, avg. distance, read date, last key update, service data(CBS), coverage(expiration dates), dynamic vehicle data, CC messages, SW integration(etc, etc).

The key read also extracts the Warranty Vehicle Inquiry, that part probably is extracted from BMWNA database per VIN.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:15 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post

The key read also extracts the Warranty Vehicle Inquiry, that part probably is extracted from BMWNA database per VIN.
I would have thought the BMW database data IS the authority on warranty coverage dates, not a key in the possession of the public.

Anyway, a minor quibble.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:19 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I would have thought the BMW database data IS the authority on warranty coverage dates, not a key in the possession of the public.

Anyway, a minor quibble.
The BMW Database IS the authority.

The key provides the VIN and OBD info. The VIN then is matched to the BMWNA warranty database which provides the inservice date, etc. when the key is put in the "reader."

Linked databases by VIN.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:24 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
The BMW Database IS the authority.

The key provides the VIN and OBD info. The VIN then is matched to the BMWNA warranty database which provides the inservice date, etc. when the key is put in the "reader."

Linked databases by VIN.
Thats what I thought, and what I was getting at
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:40 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhm5 View Post
It chops a few weeks off of the warranty and maintenance period.
It only matters if the client doesn't notice this and takes the car in for "free" maintenance or warranty work in the few weeks after the paperwork date but before the actual delivery date.
How does one take a car in for free maintenance before it has been delivered? Do you need Sheldon and Mr. Peabody to set the Way Back Machine?

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  #14  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:24 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I would have thought the BMW database data IS the authority on warranty coverage dates, not a key in the possession of the public.

Anyway, a minor quibble.
One possibility s that portions of BMW database data may also be copied/downloaded to the key e.g. in addition to in-service date, the customer contact information is also pat of "Key Data" printout.

One minor clue is that, on the "Key Data" printout, it lists "Origin" as "KeyReader". One interpretation of that is all data on the "Key Data" printout, including in-service date, comes from the key.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:45 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
One possibility s that portions of BMW database data may also be copied/downloaded to the key e.g. in addition to in-service date, the customer contact information is also pat of "Key Data" printout.

One minor clue is that, on the "Key Data" printout, it lists "Origin" as "KeyReader". One interpretation of that is all data on the "Key Data" printout, including in-service date, comes from the key.
Uh, didnt Michael already provide the actual answer?


We dont need 'clues' and 'possibilities'.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:12 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Uh, didnt Michael already provide the actual answer?


We dont need 'clues' and 'possibilities'.
Local foreman and SA gave different answer than Michael's when asked in the past(specifically if all printed key data is stored on the key).

The foreman's answer matches the clues on the printout, hence the suggested possibility in previous post.

Last edited by namelessman; 01-12-2018 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
According to the PCD Bulletin:

"It is handled no differently than a vehicle delivered at your retail center. The VIN must be reported as "sold" by your center on the date the vehicle is delivered to your customer by the Performance Center."

The VIN has to be in our inventory in order to report it sold. And usually that is a week ahead of the PCD date.

What this says to me is that in this case, the vehicle was in the dealer inventory a couple to a few weeks prior to the actual PCD date. That allowed the dealer to report it sold and put it on paper to count in December.

And contrary to the policy above.


Following up my post above and the in service date is 1/2/2018 date as the PC staff confirmed via connected drive during delivery as I specifically asked this question. PCD date was 1/12/2018. Appears there is no consistency with the bulletin being followed.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:23 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Following up my post above and the in service date is 1/2/2018 date as the PC staff confirmed via connected drive during delivery as I specifically asked this question. PCD date was 1/12/2018. Appears there is no consistency with the bulletin being followed.
In a way it is still consistent to bulletin, which says PCD date needs to already show "SOLD" status.

It makes sense dealer(being a separate entity than PC) would want to report "SOLD" ASAP, e.g. at date of signing paper, so that there will be zero issue at subsequent PCD date.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:24 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Local foreman and SA gave different answer than Michael's when asked in the past(specifically if all printed key data is stored on the key).

The foreman's answer matches the clues on the printout, hence the suggested possibility in previous post.
Conspiracy theories ... I knew the US government brought down the twin towers ...

In the long run, it just doesn't matter who is right or not. If you have someone's key, and have stolen a key reader, and the key has all of the data mentioned on it, what does that person get?

Is this worth worrying about? Really?

Anyway, I stand by my answer.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:33 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Appears there is no consistency with the bulletin being followed.
Dealers do things that serve their purposes, sometimes. In this case they could believe hey it's to our mutual benefit ... you get the great program from the last month, we get the unit count, and all you miss out on is 10 days of warranty and maintenance.

No harm, no foul. Right?

Yes, MJB is feeling a bit snarky today!

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:52 AM
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Conspiracy theories ... I knew the US government brought down the twin towers ...

In the long run, it just doesn't matter who is right or not. If you have someone's key, and have stolen a key reader, and the key has all of the data mentioned on it, what does that person get?

Is this worth worrying about? Really?
ve
Anyway, I stand by my answer.
Fact finding usually is not about right or not.

Does the key reader also need proprietary software to operate? Is the key data encrypted?

Local tier-1 indies(those who mimic dealer service) have BMW key readers, plus BMW factory diagnostics software(whatever that means).

My assumption is they have no access to BMWNA customer database, so key read printouts from these indies can shed some light(for those interested to know).
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:58 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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No harm, no foul. Right?
The dealer seems to follow the instruction on the bulletin, which (from my interpretation) says car needs to be in SOLD status when car is delivered at PC.

Since dealer and PC are two different entities, it is prudent for dealer to mark car as SOLD(and start in service date) ahead of PCD date, or else the delivery cannot happen.

For normal dealer sales, the same entity(dealer itself) takes care of both SOLD and delivery, so there is no discrepancy.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Dealers do things that serve their purposes, sometimes. In this case they could believe hey it's to our mutual benefit ... you get the great program from the last month, we get the unit count, and all you miss out on is 10 days of warranty and maintenance.



No harm, no foul. Right?



Yes, MJB is feeling a bit snarky today!





Not necessarily losing out on 10 days of warranty/maintenance, as the lease end of contract date is also Jan 2nd, 2021. I was in Italy on vacation for the 10 days, no harm as all parties benefitted. Pre-paying for 10 days is significantly less of a financial cost when compared to driving a ED vehicle for 7 days and then the remaining days of usage for that months payment is a sunken cost in transit for shipping, but ED = Experience. BTW, BMWFS allows a 7 day grace period from end of contract date to actual vehicle turn in.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:04 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Not necessarily losing out on 10 days of warranty/maintenance, as the lease end of contract date is also Jan 2nd, 2021. I was in Italy on vacation for the 10 days, no harm as all parties benefitted. Pre-paying for 10 days is significantly less of a financial cost when compared to driving a ED vehicle for 7 days and then the remaining days of usage for that months payment is a sunken cost in transit for shipping, but ED = Experience. BTW, BMWFS allows a 7 day grace period from end of contract date to actual vehicle turn in.
Yes YOU didn't miss out on warranty/maintenance time, but I was speaking more generally and to the person who had a date in December when they're picking it up in January.

And the grace period is on the lease not getting it maintained. That's by exception and good will.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Local tier-1 indies(those who mimic dealer service) have BMW key readers, plus BMW factory diagnostics software(whatever that means).
To followup, a friend had a service done at a tier-1 indy, it looks like BMWNA has a new system called AIR, "Aftersales information research", per VIN. It has zero customer info, but has abbreviated logs of service visits within warranty period.

The previous key reader at that indy no longer works, as new software + hardware is being introduced. The SA told my friend that the owner plans to not renew the key reader, as AIR is economical and functional enough for them. The only missing thing is that they need to access IDrive to check upcoming service items instead of key read.

This still does not answer if in service date/customer info is on the key.
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