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Old 09-11-2015, 07:52 AM
MK-CO MK-CO is offline
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Dinan Cold Air Intake on 435 with MPPK

Has anyone out there done this? Considering it and wondering what (experienced) folks think / recommend. $600 for what is essentially a plastic (sorry....carbon fiber) tube and air filter seems excessive, but the claim of +10 HP & +15 lb-ft of torque makes it interesting.

Again - curious for folks who already have the MPPK software installed. Thanks!
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:03 AM
ctorrey ctorrey is offline
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The MPPK comes with a new BMW air intake. Not sure I'd spend another $600 for a Dinan version with such minimal gains. Probably would have gone a different route from beginning - like the Dinan tune given the prices of MPPK plus Dinan air intake.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:09 AM
VCuomo VCuomo is offline
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Originally Posted by ctorrey View Post
The MPPK comes with a new BMW air intake. Not sure I'd spend another $600 for a Dinan version with such minimal gains. Probably would have gone a different route from beginning - like the Dinan tune given the prices of MPPK plus Dinan air intake.
Funny that you mention that - I just pulled the trigger on a Dinan Stage 1 tune today. Car is at the dealer having it installed and the windows tinted (in fact, it was the dealer that recommended the Dinan over the MPPK + MPE).
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:13 AM
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Would be very skeptical of HP claims for an air cleaner on a stock or lightly tuned car.

In 335is land we were able to get into the high 11 second 1/4 bracket on the stock system with a high flow filter. About 410/415whp on a DynoJet was choke point for the stock system, where it was getting inefficient & needed to be replaced. Standard replacement was a $100 DCI package for cars running into the 500whp range.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:43 AM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by MK-CO View Post
Has anyone out there done this? Considering it and wondering what (experienced) folks think / recommend. $600 for what is essentially a plastic (sorry....carbon fiber) tube and air filter seems excessive, but the claim of +10 HP & +15 lb-ft of torque makes it interesting.

Again - curious for folks who already have the MPPK software installed. Thanks!

I have a 2016 435iX with MPPK. The MPPK mod was installed about 6-8 months ago.

Over the period that I've had it, I used the sports power/torque display to assess changes/differences as I make changes to the car. To be clear, I don't necessarily believe the accuracy of the magnitude power/torque that is displayed. Nevertheless, I routinely get peak power readings around 330-335hp (hard to know exactly what the number is, since it's not digital readout). That number seems to be close to what Dinan quotes on the 435 with MPPK, using the Dyno.

A few days ago, I had installed the Dinan CAI. Talking to their rep, I was told to expect about a 8hp increase using the bottom part of the MPPK air box (ie, not the full 10 hp quoted on their site).

Over the last few days, I have been looking at the change I see on the sports display. As best I can measure it, it now looks like it is reading between 340-345 (previously, 330-335hp). Soooo, I do see a difference.

Sound wise, the only difference I hear - now - is a bit more turbo noise. But, I drive with the windows up, so I'm really not going to hear much, if any, differences from the exhaust side of the car.

There may be some improvement in throttle response, but quite frankly, it's hard to tell? But I definitely see a slight up-tick in power and torque,

By the way, and not that I go into the engine compartment all that often - but the Dinan CAI is way, way better looking than what was stock, or part of the MPPK mod.

Last edited by StringTheory; 06-15-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:58 AM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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You're not going to get 10hp from a slightly differently designed plastic box lol. Don't be so gullible. If you want real gains get a downpipe
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:02 AM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by F10-N52 View Post
You're not going to get 10hp from a slightly differently designed plastic box lol. Don't be so gullible. If you want real gains get a downpipe
So, let's see...so you've done the same experiment that I have? Or, are you simply calling me a liar? Not to mention, Dinan is also full of chit?

The absolute numbers are certainly questionable, but the difference is not.

Last edited by StringTheory; 06-15-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:06 AM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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Originally Posted by StringTheory View Post
So, let's see...so you've done the same experiment that I have? Or, are you simply calling me a liar? Not to mention, Dian is all full of chit?

The absolute numbers are certainly questionable, but the difference is not.
I'm not calling anyone a liar. I am doubting the fact a new intake would yield 10hp. There's just no way. I won't believe it until a see a dyno chart NOT made by the intake manufacturer, but rather a consumer
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:31 AM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by F10-N52 View Post
I'm not calling anyone a liar. I am doubting the fact a new intake would yield 10hp. There's just no way. I won't believe it until a see a dyno chart NOT made by the intake manufacturer, but rather a consumer
Why are you even posting on this topic? Seriously, what are your qualifications that would make anybody believe your OPINION (and that's all it is without further data - do you have data/calculations or reviews that call BS?). Without it,

(A) You don't have this car.
(B) You don't have the MPPK installed on this car.
(C) You don't have the Dinan CAI installed on this car.

So, where's your reference point?

Please note the title of this thread. The CAI, in conjunction with the MPPK, or one of the Dinan power boost modules, has more impact than simply putting a CAI on a car that has not undergone these electronic/turo modifications.

Finally, why the F would anybody go through the time and expense to have their car dyno'd, in an independent shop, to show that they get an additional 8-10 hp after the the CAI install? To prove something to you? LOL. Absurd.

If you don't want to believe the Dinan dyno results, then you are free to ignore...but you offer nothing more than opinion.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:21 AM
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Hate to do this but have to agree with F10-N52. Typically if you are under 400 or so WHP an intake is not going to do anything but make a nice sound.

General comment IIRC Dinan still uses crank power not wheel power. Gives them a better add number than the other vendors using Chassis dynos. They generally don't live up to there claims on a Chassis dyno when compared to all the other tunes which use chassis dynos in their adds..

The BMW Power & Torque display have no connection to reality. Its a fixed display not variable. You could run 500WHP & the display with still show the factory numbers. If you don't believe me start a thread "is the BMW Power/Torque display real?"

As far as Dinan telling tails for years they were claiming superiority to the Piggy Back systems till they could no longer sustain the flash program & had to go to piggy back. Now Piggy Backs are wonderful.

This is the bad old days when Dinan was saying bad piggy, its a Dinan Stage III vs a basic JB4 both in 335is cars. The JB4 car has the stock intake.

12.583*^ 114.529 8.062 90.430 2.070 BMW 335i 335IS 2011 BEAR-AvHistory

12.590*+ 108.740 8.130 87.740 1.960 BMW 335i S Dinan Stage 3 Tune 2011 BuraQ

These are 2012 listings. The Dinan system was rated at IIRC 398 HP by Dinan. This car went a lot faster at A later date when the Dinan tune was removed & RennTech added. Times are similar but look at the terminal speed. The JB4 was making a lot more power 114 to 108.

Read more: http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-D...#ixzz4k62AB5Gx

NOTE Just a thought go the the BMW section at drag times there are probably a 1000 or more entries backed by Dynos & timeslips. See how many Dinan entries there are if you can find them. Real guys driving real cars with their own money mean a lot more than a vendor add
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK-CO View Post
Has anyone out there done this? Considering it and wondering what (experienced) folks think / recommend. $600 for what is essentially a plastic (sorry....carbon fiber) tube and air filter seems excessive, but the claim of +10 HP & +15 lb-ft of torque makes it interesting.

Again - curious for folks who already have the MPPK software installed. Thanks!
Was just thinking based on the last post. If you want a CAI why not get a $200 or $300 unit. They are basicly 6 of 1 - 1/2 dozen of the other. All make an iteresting noise compared to the stock CAI.

Reason I mentioned stock CAI most people forget the stock unit also captures cold air, the air box just silences it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:33 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Hate to do this but have to agree with F10-N52. Typically if you are under 400 or so WHP an intake is not going to do anything but make a nice sound.
Proof? Would love to see the data/equations that say is does nothing when under 400hp? So far, all I'm hearing is opinion.

In the meantime, there are many articles that say otherwise.

http://www.autoanything.com/air-inta...akes-work.aspx

https://www.carsdirect.com/car-maint...ne-performance

http://www.autoanything.com/air-inta...akes-work.aspx

A well engineered CAI does have an performance impact, just as a poorly engineered/restrictive intake will rob performance. This is not rocket science. As to the magnitude of increase/decrease, well , that's the debatable part.



Quote:
General comment IIRC Dinan still uses crank power not wheel power. Gives them a better add number than the other vendors using Chassis dynos. They generally don't live up to there claims on a Chassis dyno when compared to all the other tunes which use chassis dynos in their adds.. The BMW Power & Torque display have no connection to reality. Its a fixed display not variable. You could run 500WHP & the display with still show the factory numbers. If you don't believe me start a thread "is the BMW Power/Torque display real?"

Did you read my comment where I said that the "absolute HP/TQ numbers displayed on the BMW Sports display is questionable"? Nevertheless, they more or less agree with Dinan's dyno measurements. Persaonally, I put little stock in the absolute numbers.....but, but the difference, the delta in HP/TQ measured before and after a modification have been made, are real and meaningful.

Quote:
As far as Dinan telling tails for years they were claiming superiority to the Piggy Back systems till they could no longer sustain the flash program & had to go to piggy back. Now Piggy Backs are wonderful.
Completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.


Quote:
NOTE Just a thought go the the BMW section at drag times there are probably a 1000 or more entries backed by Dynos & timeslips. See how many Dinan entries there are if you can find them. Real guys driving real cars with their own money mean a lot more than a vendor add
Drag times are very dependent on many variables, including environmental conditions, tires, surface condition and driver experience. But again, irrelevant to the discussion.

Before and after, or delta measurements are real.

Last edited by StringTheory; 06-15-2017 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:35 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Was just thinking based on the last post. If you want a CAI why not get a $200 or $300 unit. They are basicly 6 of 1 - 1/2 dozen of the other. All make an iteresting noise compared to the stock CAI.

Reason I mentioned stock CAI most people forget the stock unit also captures cold air, the air box just silences it.
Most stock CAI's, and especially on luxury sedans costing more than $50K, often make compromises between cost, performance, and noise levels. Noise is a big deal with buyers of high end cars.

I'm here to tell you that most (not all) people spending this much for a car don't give a crap about 0-60 or skid pad tests. They care about safety, looks, amenities, comfort (which includes sound levels), etc....

I'm coming from a Porsche, and I still find it amusing that the vast majority of Porsche owners don't: (1) drive their cars more than 5K per year, and rarely, if ever, take their cars anywhere near the limits of what it is capable of. For them, it's a show piece. It's suburban eye-candy for the wealthy.

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Old 06-15-2017, 12:53 PM
Rebound Rebound is offline
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You can buy a K & N air filter for about $50 and it claims to boost HP as well. I just bought one. It's only about $15 more than a stock air filter.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:02 PM
rice_rocket88 rice_rocket88 is offline
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As stated above.. the real life data proved time and time again is that unless your car is of a higher horsepower rating, the need/improvement of the intake is not high enough to make that much gain. There are so many people that would argue to never ever take off the stock box. There are tons of displays/data showing different types of filters and showing more air flowing through, ie less restrictive. I have had a chance back in the day (different car.. turbo 4 cyl mitsu) doing a back to back dyno because.. I was there and was curious. I had a 2.5" intake and went with a big custom sized 3.75 that I put together. Yes.. hp went up to the wheels maybe like 5 hp. My car was making a lot of power with a big turbo, but the 2.5" intake was already bigger than stock. Is the current setup outflowing the stock box? Probably not by MUCH is what we're all trying to say. If you had downpipes, bigger intercoolers etc, then there is a much much better chance you need it.

So.. sure you'll gain a little more power, the absolute number is only worth it to yourself if you can back to back dyno it (or read off your display). Otherwise, the question is do you want to spend the money on it or not.. but either way you're not going to get a big kick in your pants feel of power. However.. it does sound MUCH better if you're looking for that noise. I did a jb4 plus the intake on my brothers 435.. so it was a big difference between stock and upgraded. But we all had a chuckle how much more intake sound/turbo sound that the intake made. Have fun either way, but spouting off numbers is really just bragging rights, and there will certainly be no data to prove it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:05 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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If I look at the MPPK CAI that was replaced by Dinan CAI, the first thing I noticed was that the cross-sectional area of the "tube" connecting the air box to the intake is significantly smaller than the cross-sectional area seen on the Dinan carbon tube.

I'd love to see flow numbers between the two designs, but have to believe, simply based on the cross-sectional area of the two, that the Dinan CAI transfers a lot more air....
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:15 PM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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Originally Posted by rice_rocket88 View Post
As stated above.. the real life data proved time and time again is that unless your car is of a higher horsepower rating, the need/improvement of the intake is not high enough to make that much gain. There are so many people that would argue to never ever take off the stock box. There are tons of displays/data showing different types of filters and showing more air flowing through, ie less restrictive. I have had a chance back in the day (different car.. turbo 4 cyl mitsu) doing a back to back dyno because.. I was there and was curious. I had a 2.5" intake and went with a big custom sized 3.75 that I put together. Yes.. hp went up to the wheels maybe like 5 hp. My car was making a lot of power with a big turbo, but the 2.5" intake was already bigger than stock. Is the current setup outflowing the stock box? Probably not by MUCH is what we're all trying to say. If you had downpipes, bigger intercoolers etc, then there is a much much better chance you need it.

So.. sure you'll gain a little more power, the absolute number is only worth it to yourself if you can back to back dyno it (or read off your display). Otherwise, the question is do you want to spend the money on it or not.. but either way you're not going to get a big kick in your pants feel of power. However.. it does sound MUCH better if you're looking for that noise. I did a jb4 plus the intake on my brothers 435.. so it was a big difference between stock and upgraded. But we all had a chuckle how much more intake sound/turbo sound that the intake made. Have fun either way, but spouting off numbers is really just bragging rights, and there will certainly be no data to prove it.
Keep in mind that BMW's stock airbox is very well designed and offers an optimal balance between low end torque and high end horsepower. It also helps reduce heatsoak within your engine bay.

The general rule is NEVER to purchase a "cold air" system. Unless you are purchasing a closed box system like dinan or AFE theres absolutely no power gains to be had. Like someone else said unless you are pushing 400+ hp the stock airbox simply is not causing any sort of restriction worth noting.

Also, stay away from those drop in filter gimmicks. They filter less garbage into your engine for the sake or a marginal increase in performance
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:22 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Originally Posted by rice_rocket88 View Post
As stated above.. the real life data proved time and time again is that unless your car is of a higher horsepower rating, the need/improvement of the intake is not high enough to make that much gain.
No disrespect, but....

I get the sense that most on here are not engineers, and have no idea how to conduct a controlled experiment to prove a point?

Perhaps one of you can link to one or more of those alleged "real life" dyno tests that you're talking about....that have before and after dyno results on a 435, with MPPK installed -

BEFORE: mppk CAI system, with ~25 hp bump
AFTER: mppk, with ~25hp bump + Dinan CAI

That's the comparison we are talking about.

A Dinan rep told be to expect about 8hp increase. The lower part of the mppk air box will rob some performance. So, I embarked to see what DIFFERENCE I measured using the BMW sport display.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE NUMBERS, ONLY THE DELTA.

I have been monitoring my peak HP using this display ever since I got the MPPK about 8 months ago. Consistently reads about 330hp. I recently added the Dinan CAI, and have now been recording my HP using the same sports display. Oddly enough, I measure about what the Dinan rep said I would see, or about an increase of about 8 hp.

Point being: There is a measurable bump in peak HP. Is it significant? No. Will it lower my "drag times"? Probably not. Is it worth $600? Only the buyer himself can decide that.

Last edited by StringTheory; 06-15-2017 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:25 PM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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I personally just cannot justify spending $600 to replace something that works just fine and is actually quite well designed for applications up to 400hp...

You can put that money toward an ecu tune or a downpipe and see excellent gains. Hell even an Intercooler would improve performance more then your average air intake system.

The dinan box is great, but $600 is not worth it imo.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:29 PM
Rebound Rebound is offline
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Originally Posted by F10-N52 View Post

Also, stay away from those drop in filter gimmicks. They filter less garbage into your engine for the sake or a marginal increase in performance
I don't think there's any harm in a K&N air filter, do you? They're very highly regarded, and I've never heard anyone complain about them.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:33 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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I personally just cannot justify spending $600 to replace something that works just fine and is actually quite well designed for applications up to 400hp...
And that's fine, but that's your opinion, and would not be mine.
People spend of $3K for new alloys. Is that worth it? Personal taste.



Quote:
You can put that money toward an ecu tune or a downpipe and see excellent gains. Hell even an Intercooler would improve performance more then your average air intake system. The dinan box is great, but $600 is not worth it imo.
There are three things that I hear people say about the Dinan CAI:

(1) It improves the sound. That's totally subjective, but if some people think it makes a more aggressive sound, and is pleasing to them...$600 is a small price to pay for a car costing about $55K

(2) Improved throttle response. I can not quantify/substantiate this.

(3) Slight power bump. I can substantiate that.

All this said. the Dinan CAI is masterfully crafted,. The Dinan carbon air tube, compared to the piece of crap plastic air dusct from the MPPK, is a work of art. Not that I open up the hood that much, but when I do, it is a standout piece of engineering.

Last edited by StringTheory; 06-15-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:35 PM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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I don't think there's any harm in a K&N air filter, do you? They're very highly regarded, and I've never heard anyone complain about them.
Like I said, they filter less dirt into your engine and barely increase power as a result. It's best to stick to OEM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:36 PM
rice_rocket88 rice_rocket88 is offline
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Point being: There is a measurable bump in peak HP. Is it significant? No. Will it lower my "drag times"? Probably not. Is it worth $600? Only the buyer himself can decide that.
That's exactly the point. I'm just trying to re-iterate that your peak HP is by no means going to be very high. Certainly there is no denying the display showing a different number, whether it's being calculated by airflow or timing.. or what not. We're all glad that it changed, and it should.


As for the next comment about K&N there's plenty of complaints.. but a lot were just that they oiled their filters too much and the oil got on the MAF sensors etc and messed them up.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:37 PM
F10-N52 F10-N52 is offline
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And that's fine, but that's your opinion, and would not be mine.





There are three things that I hear people say about the Dinan CAI:

(1) It improves the sound. That's totally subjective, but if some people think it makes a more aggressive sound, and is pleasing to them...$600 is a small price to pay for a car costing about $55K

(2) Improved throttle response. I can not quantify/substantiate this.

(3) Slight power bump. I can substantiate that.

All this said. the Dinan CAI is masterfully crafted,. The Dinan carbon air tube, compared to the piece of crap plastic air dusct from the MPPK, is a work of art. Not that I open up the hood that much, but when I do, it is a standout piece of engineering.
If you're okay with spending $600 for a few HP then fair enough, but I think that money is still best spent elsewhere even if I was rich.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:48 PM
StringTheory StringTheory is offline
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Location: Annapolis, Md
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Mein Auto: 435iX
Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_rocket88 View Post
That's exactly the point. I'm just trying to re-iterate that your peak HP is by no means going to be very high. Certainly there is no denying the display showing a different number, whether it's being calculated by airflow or timing.. or what not. We're all glad that it changed, and it should.


As for the next comment about K&N there's plenty of complaints.. but a lot were just that they oiled their filters too much and the oil got on the MAF sensors etc and messed them up.

And who said (show me where? ) anybody claimed it would be "very high"? People can read what's on the Dinan site. Even a 10 hp incread on a MPPK equipped 435 with about 330 hp, is only a 3% bump. Tiny.

Max is 10 hp from Dinan web site, and Dinan rep, in personal conversation (BEFORE I bought), said I probably would only see 8hp bump, since the lower part of the air box is not being replaced.

Nevertheless, F10 said to my post: "You're not going to get 10hp from a slightly differently designed plastic box lol. Don't be so gullible."

Not only is this not true in my case, I resent people calling me gullible without one shred of evidence. I'll say it again - rather than cite all these antidotal stories, show me some actual before and after dyno results that disprove my claim?
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