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Old 03-06-2019, 03:51 AM
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WOW! Further consequence of failed thermostat.

newTIS.infobeta
Home / BMW E70 X5 xDrive35d SAV / Repair Manuals and Technical Data / 11 Engine / 11 65 Charger with control /11 65 020. Damage on the exhaust turbocharger due to obstructed oil supply lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewTIS
Caution!
If the engine does not heat up or only heats up very slowly because of a defective thermostat, this can result in premature or repeated damage to the exhaust turbocharger. Always check the coolant thermostat and thermostat for the EGR cooling if there is a complaint, and repair if applicable.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...rol/1VnYPEyClX

It appears also that some sort of major revision to NewTIS is in progress. The file structure is not so useful, perhaps why I stumbled across this interesting and unexpected caution.
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:16 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
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It also talks about clogged oil supply lines. Consequence of extended OCI and / or improper oil?
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:24 AM
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I am certain that BMW TIS presumes proper oil.

Once requirements are abandoned then most anything can happen, that cannot be covered by canned troubleshooting and repair.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:01 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
I am certain that BMW TIS presumes proper oil.

Once requirements are abandoned then most anything can happen, that cannot be covered by canned troubleshooting and repair.
Noting about the article leads me to believe that TIS presumes proper oil.
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2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:43 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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If the oil doesn't get hot enough, water will build up in the oil because heat is what helps it evaporate.
Oil with water is corrosive and also depletes the TBN of the oil which leads to sludge buildup and acidity. The LL04 oils have weaker TBN than dedicated HDEO diesel oils.

Why didn't those idiots could have updated the dde to report thermostat issues? It can be detected by a simple algorithm based on external temperature, fuel usage, and time.

Last edited by robnitro; 03-06-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:26 PM
Michael47 Michael47 is offline
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One more reason to mind the coolant temperature.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:32 PM
SPL15 SPL15 is offline
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Key takeaways:

- Replace your turbo cooling oil lines BEFORE they clog / coke / leak, as well as PM / clean the crankcase connecting lines. This TIS focuses primarily on blocked turbo oil lines as being root cause for turbo failure... For a reason...

- Do not ignore oil & filter changes. Do not use non-approved oils. Perform oil & filter change as soon as iDrive warning pops up, if not preemptively @ 6-8K miles.

- Maintain cooling system to ensure proper heating of the engine & oil for proper lubrication of the turbo's, not just for DPF health / regeneration purposes.

- Maintain a properly functioning CCV system to ensure proper lubrication to turbo(s).

What I find VERY interesting is that this document specifically mentions slow heating of the cooling system as a cause for incremental turbo damage, and specifically the EGR thermostat as a potential cause for slow heating of the coolant...

This has obvious implications for those who're deleting their EGR, DPF, SCR systems in cold climates; however, the cost / benefit / risk ratio for a potentially shorter turbo life (depending on individual circumstances), in exchange for a completely non-existent emissions system failure risk, is likely to still pan out financially. With a disabled / deleted emissions system, I would certainly be mindful to not push the engine hard at all until engine OIL temps are nearing 180F or so... What would likely push the equation further towards financial benefit of a complete delete, the amount of soot & diesel fuel entered into the engine oil is significantly reduced without EGR & DPF regeneration, thus reducing the rate of coking / clogging / sludge buildup throughout all of the engine oil passages, including the turbos & associated oil lines...

It's also quite interesting that the CCV system was mentioned as a potential cause for inadequate oil feed to the turbos... I'm at a loss as to how the CCV system, on the E70 35d, would contribute to improper / inadequate oil feed to the turbos, except for a blocked CCV system that pressurizes the crankcase beyond spec, thus reducing flow from the turbo oil return line due to reduced pressure differential across the turbo's oil passages. IF pressurizing the crankcase beyond spec causes a reduction in oil flow to the turbos, then I'd be interested in whether there's any additional back pressure on the crankcase created by adding the popular Mann-hummel oil separator in series to the stock CCV system... Also, if pressurizing the crankcase contributes to inadequate oil feed to the turbos, one would be wise to ensure their valve cover gaskets are not leaking / replace them preemptively, as the upper intake runners go thru the valve cover & then into the head, where a leak in any one of these upper intake runners' valve cover gasket will contribute towards pressurization of the crankcase...

Nice find!

Last edited by SPL15; 03-08-2019 at 12:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2019, 03:07 AM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Without dpf, there is no regen which makes the turbo run very hot even at idle/low rpm.

Shutting down during a regen is something that I feel is very bad for the oil in the turbos.
Edycol said that the synthetic oil can handle those temperatures, but it does add to possible coking when the oil is already getting compromised with soot and or depleted TBN.
Without flow on shut down the little oil that remains gets heat soaked.
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2019, 07:14 PM
SPL15 SPL15 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Without dpf, there is no regen which makes the turbo run very hot even at idle/low rpm.

Shutting down during a regen is something that I feel is very bad for the oil in the turbos.
Edycol said that the synthetic oil can handle those temperatures, but it does add to possible coking when the oil is already getting compromised with soot and or depleted TBN.
Without flow on shut down the little oil that remains gets heat soaked.
Are you talking about a deleted DPF & tuned out regen? If so, I'm not understanding how a DPF delete w/ tuned out regen would make the turbos run very hot at idle / low RPM...

I could see the HP turbo spinning a slight bit faster during idle / low RPM driving; however, this should not translate into running very hot.

With a plugged up DPF that no longer allows regenerations to occur, I could see the additional back pressure causing issues with turbo cooling / function / longevity.

I do agree that shutting down during an active regen is likely hard on the engine oil & contributes to failure of the oil cooling lines... Especially if you're at the end of your OCI, as your engine oil will have a much higher concentration of diesel fuel & soot, which are far less stable with high heat...
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:31 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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I phrased it wrong. I mean that if you don't have the delete, you will have cases of super hot exhaust temperature which helps coke the oil.

Oh and btw we don't have an egr cooler coolant thermostat in the usa. It's done by the spring/vac actuated flap on the cooler itself, controlled by the dde.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:30 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Without dpf, there is no regen which makes the turbo run very hot even at idle/low rpm.

Shutting down during a regen is something that I feel is very bad for the oil in the turbos.
Edycol said that the synthetic oil can handle those temperatures, but it does add to possible coking when the oil is already getting compromised with soot and or depleted TBN.
Without flow on shut down the little oil that remains gets heat soaked.


American diesel is ULSD, and TBN retention is much better than prior to 2009 (which allowed BMW and others to bring these diesels to the US).
Oil that has TBN below 1 is done. It will start to oxidase regardless of whether you shutdown engine during regeneration or not.
That is why 10k OCI should be absolute maximum and 5-7.5k preferred OCI.


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  #12  
Old 03-14-2019, 04:25 PM
Dash Riprock Dash Riprock is offline
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I had my X5 (96,000 miles) in the shop yesterday to change out the thermostat, I washed the engine down before dropping it off so they could figure out where the oil (on passenger side) was coming from. Upon inspection they determined my exhaust turbo charger had a hair line fracture in it. I have not had any of the symptoms they referenced in the service bulletin. I do live in a cold climate but park the vehicle in doors, we have come through a brutal cold stretch so potentially the hairline crack just happened. I can say I have diligently changed oil and filter every 8,000-10,000 KM's and air filter when necessary. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. I had visions of this BMW lasting a long time without such a major repair. The fact I have not had any fault codes means I will continue driving until I can line up another turbo and associated parts. Is there anything else you would recommend considering changing when I swap out the turbo?
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:33 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Did they demonstrate the crack to you? I would get a second opinion.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

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  #14  
Old 03-15-2019, 06:34 AM
Dash Riprock Dash Riprock is offline
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Yes they sent me the following picture of the hairline fracture. I will be driving it extra carefully for the next while.
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2019, 06:37 AM
Dash Riprock Dash Riprock is offline
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Yes they sent me the following picture of the hairline fracture. I will be driving it extra carefully for the next while. Sorry the picture is upside down, I will try to fix.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL15 View Post

- Maintain a properly functioning CCV system to ensure proper lubrication to turbo(s).
My indy suggested getting the valve cover changed at my next oil service. He mentioned the CCV, but I cannot recall what he said about it. I'm getting it done along with the thermostat and possibly water pump. Although it's a mechanical pump, I think I'll ask the tech if we should get it changed anyway.

I recently bought a Bluetooth dongle and have used the Torque Pro app in order to see the temps on the 35d. The temps hover around 160f-165f. So since I've been reading all past experiences and threads here on the forum, I decided to change it based on that.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:55 AM
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UPDATE;

Got the X5 back and the temps this mornings were between 185f-195f (Using Torque pro app) driving locally for about half hour. Ambient temp was about 50f

I know there are TONS of Tstat threads but just wanted to update for those who are looking into this in the future.
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