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  #101  
Old 04-11-2020, 03:33 PM
TheTurtleBoy TheTurtleBoy is offline
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The 45e has completed CA ARB certification. Electric range is approximately 41 city and 44 highway.

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad...s3-30_phev.pdf
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  #102  
Old 04-12-2020, 10:06 AM
syswei syswei is offline
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Originally Posted by TheTurtleBoy View Post
The 45e has completed CA ARB certification. Electric range is approximately 41 city and 44 highway.

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad...s3-30_phev.pdf
Do you happen to know whether that EV range rating would be consistent with EPA's? Or is it on the optimistic end, like European ratings?
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  #103  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:24 PM
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Our 2017 X540e was lucky to get 12-14 miles on all electric, so I will be very happy if we can get 40 miles on a full charge.

This CA ARB certification is a very good sign - I am still hoping they begin selling these in the States by July/August. Between this and the info now on the BMW NA website, it is clearly on the horizon.

And maybe by this summer, there will actually be someplace open to drive to and no restrictions on leaving home...
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  #104  
Old 04-12-2020, 04:27 PM
TheTurtleBoy TheTurtleBoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
Do you happen to know whether that EV range rating would be consistent with EPA's? Or is it on the optimistic end, like European ratings?
I don't know how those ratings historically compare against actual. Seems like most folks who have the 45E in Europe are getting in the 31-45 range from what I have seen.
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  #105  
Old 04-12-2020, 06:50 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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The speeds used, the amount of stop and go, the acceleration rates achieved, and the number of passengers in the vehicle can all affect your range. The premise of each test used between the EuroZone and the US is different. Many have said that the US test is closer to what the average user can achieve. That doesn't mean that you won't do better or worse...depends on the conditions.
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  #106  
Old 04-14-2020, 03:23 PM
kssod kssod is offline
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Is it a plug in hybrid only?
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  #107  
Old 04-14-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kssod View Post
Is it a plug in hybrid only?
Yes. BMW does not make an X5 that is a hybrid vehicle, only plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.
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  #108  
Old 04-14-2020, 03:43 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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From what I can tell, while plug-in is probably the best way to recharge the battery, there is a mode that will force the engine to do it while you're driving.

Now, when it will actually switch to the US MY2021 version, and start to become available for sale in the US (already sold as a 2020 in other parts of the world), we'll have to see as the factory and suppliers come back up to speed at some unknown time in the future. Right now, production is at a standstill.
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  #109  
Old 04-14-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
From what I can tell, while plug-in is probably the best way to recharge the battery, there is a mode that will force the engine to do it while you're driving.
On the X5 40e, the battery does receive some charging while driving and does not require any special mode to do this. The battery can receive charge under different driving conditions in any of the three eDrive modes.

I do not know if the 45e behaves the same way but maybe one of our 'festers in Europe can confirm if it has changed? (I haven't seen this detail in any of the G05 45e review videos posted thus far.)
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  #110  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:00 PM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Thumbs up good news

https://bimmerlife.com/2020/05/02/bmw-to-resume-production-at-spartanburg-european-sites-starting-may-4/?utm_source=bimmerlife&utm_medium=email&utm_name=member
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  #111  
Old 05-13-2020, 05:10 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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I think that the dealers recently got their order guide for this model, but may not yet have the price list. So, you might be able to configure one, but may not yet know the price.
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  #112  
Old 05-15-2020, 06:37 AM
tcfila tcfila is offline
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Any idea what the plug type is that connects to the wall? I'm hopeful that it is a Nema 14-50
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  #113  
Old 05-15-2020, 11:59 AM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Thumbs up EPA EV ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
Do you happen to know whether that EV range rating would be consistent with EPA's? Or is it on the optimistic end, like European ratings?
With our 2 Chevy Volts (2013 & 2016), the EPA EV ranges published have been spot on, 50 miles.

That said, range will also vary with temp (cold reduces range) and how hard or easy you accelerate and can drive steady speeds. At least that's been our experience. And tires can also affect range. When we replaced our (terrible) OEM tires on the 2016 Volt with Continental's the grip improved substantially and initially we took a few miles hit on the range. After a few thousand miles though, the range is back up to 50 miles.

This X5's range of 41/44 is really quite good consider how big and heavy this beast is. And we're looking forward to ordering one from Joh Shafer at Santa Maria BMW. He co-founded this forum and I can recommend him as a straight shooter.
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  #114  
Old 05-15-2020, 04:34 PM
guyinacar guyinacar is offline
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Originally Posted by tcfila View Post
Any idea what the plug type is that connects to the wall? I'm hopeful that it is a Nema 14-50
Yeah, it doesn't work like that. The vehicle just has a female receptacle underneath a body-colored, waterproofed flap. The male thing on your wall is called an EVSE, and EVSEs come with all manner of wall adapters. If you want a NEMA 14-50, lots of vendors make that.

Here are two:

https://store.clippercreek.com/new?product_id=140

https://evcharging.enelx.com/store/r...al/juicebox-32
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  #115  
Old 05-15-2020, 06:02 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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An EVSE (electric vehicle support equipment) is an interface box that provides some safety circuits (such as it won't apply power until the plug is inserted and the vehicle asks for power) and effectively a GFCI circuit. It also sends out a pilot signal that tells the vehicle the maximum current it can draw.

If you have a 50A circuit, you could install up to a 40A EVSE, but that won't make the X5 charge faster than a smaller unit...I think, not positive, that the most the X5 will try to pull is 3400W, or between 14-15A at 240vac. Now, other, future vehicles are likely to be able to take advantage of larger units. Given the limited amount the vehicle can currently use, you might just be almost as fast as using the included(?) small EVSE, but I'd prefer at 20A 120vac if I did that. That would let you see how well that works for you. Given that a larger EVSE won't charge that much faster on this vehicle, it would let you wait if you wanted. I'm not positive, but I think the included unit is probably a 10-12A device at 120vac (12A would give you 1440W at 120vac input), and that would take all of overnight to recharge the battery if it was discharged. At 240vac, that would double the power available at 12A, but close to the max the thing will draw (well, 20% less).
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  #116  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:41 AM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Question European drivers: charging options?

Here is a question for those of you who already have your X5 45e. What sort of charging options are built into the cars systems?

As an example of the kind of info I'm interested in, our 2017 Chevy Volt can charge:
  • immediately on plug-in
  • delayed charging so that the vehicle is fully charged by a set time in the morning
  • a temporary override of the delayed charging for immediate charging

Are these kinds of charging options available on the X5 45e? Thanks in advance for your reply.
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  #117  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:32 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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If it's the same as on my i3, the options are:
- immediately
- at a reduced rate (works with 120vac chargers to help prevent tripping a breaker if it's not a dedicated circuit)
- in a low tariff window
- at a desired departure time (it will back off from that to start when needed BUT, if the battery is nearly depleted, it will charge it up some then stop to help prevent damage if it got really cold overnight - on mine, this only works if you have a reduced tariff window also selected)

One of our non-USA owners would have to answer this to be definitive...BMW tends to reuse software, so it's probably similar to the i3.
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  #118  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:04 PM
tcfila tcfila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
Yeah, it doesn't work like that. The vehicle just has a female receptacle underneath a body-colored, waterproofed flap. The male thing on your wall is called an EVSE, and EVSEs come with all manner of wall adapters. If you want a NEMA 14-50, lots of vendors make that.

Here are two:

https://store.clippercreek.com/new?product_id=140

https://evcharging.enelx.com/store/r...al/juicebox-32
I understand electric cars. We have a Model X and a PHEV Porsche Cayenne. What is the plug that comes with the X5?
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  #119  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:38 AM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
If it's the same as on my i3, the options are:
- immediately
- at a reduced rate (works with 120vac chargers to help prevent tripping a breaker if it's not a dedicated circuit)
- in a low tariff window
- at a desired departure time (it will back off from that to start when needed BUT, if the battery is nearly depleted, it will charge it up some then stop to help prevent damage if it got really cold overnight - on mine, this only works if you have a reduced tariff window also selected)

One of our non-USA owners would have to answer this to be definitive...BMW tends to reuse software, so it's probably similar to the i3.
Thanks for your reply. Those options make sense.
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  #120  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:03 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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This may be more in line with your original question. The i3, along with many of the cars sold in the USA, use the J1772 plug On ACV, it will accept anywhere from around 100-260, single phase. On DCV, it's looking for around 380, but I don't see that the X5 has that feature. As far as I know, there are no other plugs that will fit, nor adapters. In Europe, they use the same protocol, but the plug is shaped differently. The USA (and Euro) protocol doesn't apply the ACV to the plug until an interlock in the car asks for it. The Eurozone felt, from my guess, that that wasn't 'safe' enough, so their plug also has a mechanical shutter to prevent you from poking something into it. Since it's not energized with voltage, except for the low-voltage control signals, I'm not sure that that would really be all that much more 'safe', but that's why they did it. It does make the plug a bit more complicated.

In some markets, they also allow 3-phase charging, and with those, they can charge at a higher maximum current. From what I understand, since CHADEMO is about the only thing available in Japan, it comes with that socket in it, like the Leaf, and some others from that area.

So, in the USA, at this time, there's a mix of CHADEMO, J1772 (CCS in DCV mode), and TESLA charging stations. The only one that seems to have adapters to handle other plugs is TESLA. But, given that Tesla doesn't allow anything other than a Tesla car to use their superchargers, the fact that there's no adapter, really isn't a big deal...maybe inconvenient, but that's their decision...

It does not appear that the X5 supports CCS (DC high voltage) charging. Given the size of the battery, that doesn't seem to be a big deal to me. That does mean that you would only be able to use EVSEs, and not a CCS charging station, though. There are far more EVSEs out there than CCS, so that may not be a big deal.
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Last edited by jadnashuanh; 05-17-2020 at 02:10 PM.
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  #121  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:18 AM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Question

Hi Jim,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. IIRC I've read (on the interwebs ) that charging at slower rates improves battery life and longevity so unless there's a burning need to, charging this way is prudent. Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
This may be more in line with your original question......
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  #122  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:11 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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The biggest issue with that is the heat buildup. The battery management system automatically slows the rate down as the heat goes up, or if it started high, and then again, as the battery gets closer to full. I don't think that the X5 has CCS (high voltage DC fast charging), but a lot of use of that feature is more likely to degrade the batteries than using the max available with ACV inputs. As an example, my i3 can handle up to 50Kw DC inputs, but only 7,5Kw on AC volts. The cooling was designed to handle the 50Kw input.

I've been told, it's more about discharge cycles, and that's not necessarily how often you plug in. A full cycle is from zero to 100%, but is equivalent in 'wear' to 10 recharges from 90%. Depending on how you use the vehicle, and how low you typically get the battery, you may not be adding lots of cycles even if you always plug it in when you get home.

I do not know what the X5 uses for battery cooling. On my i3, it is liquid cooled by the refrigerant using the a/c system and a heat exchanger. Some of the older designs, like the original Leaf were only air cooled, and they had some major problems with battery degradation in places like Phoenix. Last time I checked, they also had some restrictions on how many times you could use DC charging on a longer trip...too many in a row without a long wait to allow things to cool off was prohibited. BMW engineers their systems better, IMHO. Even Tesla that gets a lot of kudos for their batteries has a limit on how many times you can use max acceleration at the track in a row before it will overheat their batteries. Porche points that out in their discussions, as they aren't limited in that way...you can keep doing it until you run out of battery capacity, and not overheat anything or lose performance.

At some point, you have to trust the engineers. They don't specify a reduced warranty if you stress things. So many people these days lease their vehicles, so they don't really care how things last. I have a 2011 GT and a 2014 i3, and am waiting for this hybrid so I can do nearly all of my driving as an EV around town (95% of my use), and still be able to go on a trip and not worry about trying to find a charging station while pulling a trailer. My longest typical trip in day-to-day is less than 15-miles RT, but do take some trips that are closer to 1K on occasion.

On my i3, the only OEM reason to not charge at the maximum rate is when doing 120vac charging, and it's not a dedicated circuit that might cause the EVSE to overload and trip the breaker. A typical 240vac EVSE tends to be on a dedicated circuit, so that's no longer an issue. 3500W/240vac=14.58A...not really all that much...that is my understanding of the maximum amount the X5 can ever draw. Remember, the EVSE sends a signal to the vehicle, and then the vehicle decides how much it will take up to, but not over, what the EVSE was telling it so that it should never overload the EVSE or the wiring involved along the way. THe EVSE is essentially a smart on/off switch, but the car decides how and how much of the available power to use. Just like plugging in a 5W lamp into a 15A circuit...it only draws what it wants, but the car is smarter, as it will adjust as needed.
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Last edited by jadnashuanh; 05-18-2020 at 03:14 PM.
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  #123  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:37 AM
reidhester reidhester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
...I have a 2011 GT and a 2014 i3, and am waiting for this hybrid so I can do nearly all of my driving as an EV around town (95% of my use), and still be able to go on a trip and not worry about trying to find a charging station while pulling a trailer. My longest typical trip in day-to-day is less than 15-miles RT, but do take some trips that are closer to 1K on occasion.
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the reply and info. Your comment extracted above is a big reason why we're getting the 45e rather than a fully elec. vehicle. Our Volt has performed this function and I'm looking forward to a car with a higher build quality, like my 228i ragtop.
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  #124  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:40 AM
aherman535 aherman535 is offline
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Order Guide

Anyone seen an order guide for the 45e yet?

Thanks,

Andrew
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  #125  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:24 PM
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Yes, I just posted it, see sticky at top of the X5 forum.

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