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  #1  
Old 11-05-2017, 02:51 PM
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Purchasing Leased Car When I'm not the Leasee

A friend of mine has a leased 2015 X6 that is coming off lease in January 2018. He's going to sell me the car now but I have one concern mainly around sales tax.

Can he tell BMW Financial I'm buying the car (not him) and I simply buy it from BMW? I don't want him to buy it from BMW and then sell it to me because then he'd pay sales tax on the purchase from BMW and I'd again be hit with sales tax on the purchase from him.

My hope is I cut a check to BMW for the lease buyout price plus the remaining lease payments and we're done at that point.

Anyone know how this will actually work and is there a way without having to pay sales tax twice?
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2017, 03:36 PM
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Not sure.. dont even think you can do a lease transfer from him to you this close to lease end. BTW, your friend can not sell you the car (maybe you know this already, maybe you dont). He cant sell you the car, because he does not own it. BMW FS owns the car, and is the only party that can sell it. The title of a leased car is in BMW FS name (unlike a loan, where the TITLE is in the owners name, with a lien from the entity that owns the loan).
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Old 11-05-2017, 04:09 PM
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Makes sense.

I know he can't sell me the car but as the current leasee, I was hoping he could assign or transfer the right to purchase the car to me or simply tell the dealership I'm going to come in and buy the car now. I'd then buy it and pay him something on the side for the favor.

But he does have the right to buy the car at the end of the lease or even now if he wants, correct? He could buy it, pay the sales tax and doc fees and then turn around and sell it to me.

I have to decide if it's worth it at that point.
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Old 11-05-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwhusky View Post
Makes sense.

I know he can't sell me the car but as the current leasee, I was hoping he could assign or transfer the right to purchase the car to me or simply tell the dealership I'm going to come in and buy the car now. I'd then buy it and pay him something on the side for the favor.

But he does have the right to buy the car at the end of the lease or even now if he wants, correct? He could buy it, pay the sales tax and doc fees and then turn around and sell it to me.

I have to decide if it's worth it at that point.
Yeah he can certainly buy the car, and then do whatever he wants to with it. If you were a family member he might be able to buy it and then give it to you, but there are stipulations on that I am not able to address (as I am not a tax person).

He could, at this point, negotiate with a dealer to get a lower price than the residual on the car (which he should do if he was going to buy it), but I dont know how to avoid the taxes on it (or if you even can avoid the double tax on it... again I am not a tax person).

He could also just pay whatever is owed on it (which is the residual + his outstanding payments).

He also could take the car to lease end term, turn it in, tell the dealership you want to buy it, and then you come in and buy it (thats not going to avoid the tax though).

He could also do this now, if he was going to get into a new BMW and you wanted that car for some reason (rather than at lease end).

Since his lease ends in january, I think you are too late to do a lease transfer (which would have been the appropriate thing to do to accomplish what you want).

Best thing would be for your friend to contact BMW FS. He/She is their customer at the moment, so they would be able to answer his question. The issue with dealing directly with BMW FS is that they will not discount the car... the residual is the residual. A dealer can buy the car from BMW FS at a discount and sell it to him for less than the residual (but then he is paying taxes as I said).

No idea how you do this without having double taxes... because its a lease.

I guess it could be appealing to you because you trust your friend and know (or at least think you know) the history of the car... but if your friends car is a regular BMW (3/4/5/x1/x3/x5), then its likely you could find other cars just like it.
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Old 11-05-2017, 04:23 PM
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IMO, you best bet is to write down the VIN, then try to buy that car when it comes up for sale.

March in to the dealer a couple days after turn in, and express interest in that car.
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Old 11-05-2017, 04:25 PM
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IMO, you best bet is to write down the VIN, then try to buy that car when it comes up for sale.

March in to the dealer a couple days after turn in, and express interest in that car.
Problem with that if OP really wants THAT one is that they might send it to auction, trade it to another dealer, etc.... so it might turn up in another state when it shows up.

If OP tells the dealer they want that specific car before or as its turned in, it will defeat the purpose of trying to get a good deal on it.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:02 PM
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1. You don't want to pay the RV. A BMW dealer can likely buy the car for MUCH less than that number.

2. In many states the leasee can buy the car from BMWFS and sell it to you and avoid a 'use tax'. Provided it is done within some time period. But again that price is probably not great.

3. You need to find a finance manager at a BMW dealer who is willing to work with you. Call a couple, say "I'm looking for someone to proper a sale, fine if you guys make a few $$. I'd like to add an extended warranty too." See what they say. I would opine that a good deal would be to pay the lease end residual number but get a warranty in it for that price

4. What is the probably price a dealre will pay? Hard to know. BMWFS sets it based on their own internal pricing algorithms. As an ESTIMATE you could take the Mannheim wholesale number,

5. Key in this case is: SHOP THE DEAL. Any BMW dealer in the USA can do this deal. If one wants to be a prick and screw you move on. Also, unless the manager has made the right noises about accepting a deal with $1k for him, don't bother with getting it priced from BMWFS, I am thinking you domnt want 20 dealers all asking for prices from BMWFS.

6. The tendancy for buyers is to "get the price, asap'. I'd be less anxious to get a precise number and express more interst in finding a FM that is willing to make a deal. And I'd be very open about that. "Look, I don't want to waste my time nor yours. I've got an idea on the value FS wants, and I am willing to have you guys make a bit- but let's not go through all this ifyou guys can't commit to a moderate profit". Or something like that.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

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OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

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Old 11-05-2017, 06:03 PM
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JJ- california law permits a leasee to buy out the lease and then sell it, no tax. FWIW...don't know what the law is in OPs state
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 11-05-2017 at 06:09 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:23 PM
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uwhusky uwhusky is offline
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Thanks for all the replies.

I live in Utah. The car in question is a 2015 X6 3.5. I'm buying the car mostly for a year end tax write off (the 6k lb SUV rule). The X6 counts for that. However, I have to purchase the car before December 31st and can't wait until January.

The leasee and I have agreed on a price and it's a VERY GOOD deal for an X6 and nets him a couple of thousand rather than turning it back in to the dealer. If we have to pay double tax, it's not such a great deal anymore but it still may be. I'm fine with paying my end of the tax but if he has to pay his end of the tax also, then it's no longer a great deal for him and I'd have to up my price paid for it to cover his sales tax.

I'm planning on calling the dealer tomorrow and asking to talk with a person in finance to ask him/her what the options are on the car (in general). The rules on lease returns should be uniform and not specific to any one car.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:32 PM
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JJ- california law permits a leasee to buy out the lease and then sell it, no tax. FWIW...don't know what the law is in OPs state
Do you know how to check the rule in Utah?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:04 AM
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1. Yes, you google it, go to the utah website, read their tax faqs and the laws/rules if necessary

2. DO NOT expect the guy at the dealer to (a) know, and/or (b) be honest.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwhusky View Post
Thanks for all the replies.

I live in Utah. The car in question is a 2015 X6 3.5. I'm buying the car mostly for a year end tax write off (the 6k lb SUV rule). The X6 counts for that. However, I have to purchase the car before December 31st and can't wait until January.

The leasee and I have agreed on a price and it's a VERY GOOD deal for an X6 and nets him a couple of thousand rather than turning it back in to the dealer. If we have to pay double tax, it's not such a great deal anymore but it still may be. I'm fine with paying my end of the tax but if he has to pay his end of the tax also, then it's no longer a great deal for him and I'd have to up my price paid for it to cover his sales tax.

I'm planning on calling the dealer tomorrow and asking to talk with a person in finance to ask him/her what the options are on the car (in general). The rules on lease returns should be uniform and not specific to any one car.

If your friend is offering you a "good price" he / she must already have worked with "someone " at a dealer to get a sales price. Otherwise, he / she is looking at paying the residual, and that generally is not a "good price" relative to the vehicles worth.

Thats the part of this that doesnt make a lot of sense to me, actually. If they are offering to sell it to you for a "good price" that price must have come from somewhere, and its likely not the RV + the left over payments.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:00 AM
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I wonder how the friendship would fare if something expensive and uncovered turns up after the sale. sometimes people underestimate what would actually happen in a scenario like that.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:05 AM
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I wonder how the friendship would fare if something expensive and uncovered turns up after the sale. sometimes people underestimate what would actually happen in a scenario like that.
Do you mean like something's wrong with the car? It has warranty left...at least a year, so that shouldn't be an issue for at least a year.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:54 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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I've been following this thread, and the various suggestions and observations, with great interest.

Always seeking the simplest solution when possible, it seems that the current owner (leasee) and the prospective buyer (OP) might do well to make an appointment with a sales manager at a local BMW dealer and have a friendly 3-way sit down to discuss the various options for transferring ownership of the car at the lowest possible cost. It would be enlightening to learn what an experienced BMW sales manager has to offer.

Knowing the current market for the car and armed with the information provided by the sales manager, three options emerge.
1. Do a deal then and there if the numbers work and everyone is agreeable
2. Thank the SM for his/her time and say you will get back to him/her with your decision and then PM a couple of participating CAs from this forum and run what you've been offered past them, and, hopefully, get some honest and private feedback as to how to best proceed
3. Walk away from this due to the possible imponderables that often come into play when a friend sells a used horse to a friend.

Also, various moving parts can indeed impact what a dealer might do to help. If the possibility of another sale (current leasee wants a new Bimmer) is lurking, things might be more friendly. If some extended service/protection plan is part of a deal, that brings more dollars into play and gives the dealer some incentive to play. And, if the gods truly smile and you get hooked up with a stand up SM, a straight-ahead deal might emerge.

And if all of the above is too complicated, certainly a quick call to BMWFS will reveal what, if anything, they can do to help you out. Though one would imagine that BMWFS will be inclined to refer you back to a dealer. If I were a dealer, that's what I'd want them to do for sure.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
I've been following this thread, and the various suggestions and observations, with great interest.

Always seeking the simplest solution when possible, it seems that the current owner (leasee) and the prospective buyer (OP) might do well to make an appointment with a sales manager at a local BMW dealer and have a friendly 3-way sit down to discuss the various options for transferring ownership of the car at the lowest possible cost. It would be enlightening to learn what an experienced BMW sales manager has to offer.

Knowing the current market for the car and armed with the information provided by the sales manager, three options emerge.
1. Do a deal then and there if the numbers work and everyone is agreeable
2. Thank the SM for his/her time and say you will get back to him/her with your decision and then PM a couple of participating CAs from this forum and run what you've been offered past them, and, hopefully, get some honest and private feedback as to how to best proceed
3. Walk away from this due to the possible imponderables that often come into play when a friend sells a used horse to a friend.

Also, various moving parts can indeed impact what a dealer might do to help. If the possibility of another sale (current leasee wants a new Bimmer) is lurking, things might be more friendly. If some extended service/protection plan is part of a deal, that brings more dollars into play and gives the dealer some incentive to play. And, if the gods truly smile and you get hooked up with a stand up SM, a straight-ahead deal might emerge.

And if all of the above is too complicated, certainly a quick call to BMWFS will reveal what, if anything, they can do to help you out. Though one would imagine that BMWFS will be inclined to refer you back to a dealer. If I were a dealer, that's what I'd want them to do for sure.
Thanks 1968BMW2800! That's basically the plan at this point. Given the lease is not up until January and the deadline for me on this deal is mid-December, my friend doesn't feel a sense of urgency on the deal, which is understandable. He's still trying to figure out what car he's going to buy his wife next, after the X6 goes away. That's the position he's in now.

I'll update this thread when I have new updates...hopefully later this week.

Just as a note, I called the BMW dealership today and spoke with their lease expert. She told me we could do an easy in and out and they would not stop that from happening. So I won't have to pay double tax, as I stated in my first point was my biggest concern.

My concern now is verifying the Residual Value and the fees BMW will charge me for the car purchase (dealer doc fee + whatever else). Once I know those two things for certain, I'll know if I plan to move forward or not.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:43 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by uwhusky View Post
Thanks 1968BMW2800! That's basically the plan at this point. Given the lease is not up until January and the deadline for me on this deal is mid-December, my friend doesn't feel a sense of urgency on the deal, which is understandable. He's still trying to figure out what car he's going to buy his wife next, after the X6 goes away. That's the position he's in now.

I'll update this thread when I have new updates...hopefully later this week.

Just as a note, I called the BMW dealership today and spoke with their lease expert. She told me we could do an easy in and out and they would not stop that from happening. So I won't have to pay double tax, as I stated in my first point was my biggest concern.

My concern now is verifying the Residual Value and the fees BMW will charge me for the car purchase (dealer doc fee + whatever else). Once I know those two things for certain, I'll know if I plan to move forward or not.
Sounds like you're getting it sorted in your mind. Since you hail from Washington, you might wish to hit your homey, MJB, with a Private Mail. He will give you the straight scoop, I'm sure. Best of luck.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwhusky View Post
rn.

My concern now is verifying the Residual Value and the fees BMW will charge me for the car purchase (dealer doc fee + whatever else). Once I know those two things for certain, I'll know if I plan to move forward or not.
Do you fully understand that you do NOT "need" to pay the Residual Value???????????????









.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:56 AM
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Do you fully understand that you do NOT "need" to pay the Residual Value???????????????









.
I do but at least it gives me a starting point and a baseline of where I'm at.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:04 AM
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I've done this twice, but was the current lessee and my friend bought my cars. Ard has it right, you need to find a dealer willing to play ball and coordinate the deal. The residual on my 540/6 was about $36K; my friend bought the car from the dealer in a pre-arranged deal for $32.5K and the dealer kept $1,800 for their "effort" and paperwork.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:05 AM
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I'm just going to throw this out there as a word of caution...

Unless your friend made a deal of the century (was the car new or a demo when he leased it?), or the car has no miles, or it's a zero option unicorn, the odds of your friend's current payoff or even residual being anywhere near a 'good deal' on a '15 X6 are slim to none.

You really should baseline this deal on a true wholesale number and make a decision from there. Perhaps he/you can run it to Carmax or similar for a bid?


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Old 11-07-2017, 07:44 AM
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Is there a way I can find out the residual value on the lease on my own? He's having a hard time tracking down his paperwork and is too busy to call right now. He "thinks" it's $42,500, which is a great deal on his X6 from my perspective. The same car would be selling for roughly $52k used (if you could find one locally). They are hard to come by in this area. The only ones for sale locally are X6M ($80k) and a rather nice X6 3.5 that's brown (yuck). That one is asking $47k but it's because of the color.
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:57 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwhusky View Post
Is there a way I can find out the residual value on the lease on my own? He's having a hard time tracking down his paperwork and is too busy to call right now. He "thinks" it's $42,500, which is a great deal on his X6 from my perspective. The same car would be selling for roughly $52k used (if you could find one locally). They are hard to come by in this area. The only ones for sale locally are X6M ($80k) and a rather nice X6 3.5 that's brown (yuck). That one is asking $47k but it's because of the color.
No, because its whatever percentage it was when he signed, and we dont have that historical data.

"too busy to call?" It would take him about 5 minutes max. He also would need to see what the actual buyout price is (because its not just the residual right now, its the residual + his last couple of payments).

Its either in his paperwork (which I understand if he cant find it), or a call to BMW FS which would take about 5 minutes.

Anytime anyone says "I dont have time" for something like a 5 minute phone call, I dont understand it. Its IMPOSSIBLE that he wont have 5 minutes to make a phone call in the next 24 to 48 hours, no matter his profession. He could be a brain surgeon, doing surgery today, and he would STILL have 5 minutes to make a phone call in the next 48 hours.

"I dont have time" means "I dont want to take 5 minutes to figure this out because its not important to me right now".

In any case, you are not going to be able to get information on his car from BMW FS (or the BMW website), so if he doesnt want to tell you what the residual is, he doesnt want to sell it to you.
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:27 AM
ard ard is offline
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1. Glad you seem to be understanding the range of options/prices

2. You can search these forums for posts around the time that car was new- so sept-Dec of 2014 (I think). Look for 'order guides' so you can build the MSRP. Then look for posts from people seeking lease guaiacne- you will likely find a % residual posted. Perhaps more than once...

When you look on any forum, or do any search, the result are almost alwsys presented in chronological order- just go back 10, 20, 200 pages to find 201x posts. Laborious, but doable.

3. Agree that this buddy's inability to get numbers is...uh..concerning. See how it goes, no need to get pushy yet, but something to be a bit concerned about.
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:33 PM
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uwhusky uwhusky is offline
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Residual is $42,540. That does not include taxes or other fees.

Any idea (at all) on what I might be able to negotiate that down to? How would I research that? I've checked KBB blue book values and also similar cars for sale in the area but they are worlds apart.
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Last edited by uwhusky; 11-07-2017 at 12:59 PM. Reason: correction
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