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  #1  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:55 PM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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X5 3.0 - 2006 - Trouble bleeding ABS

Hi all!

New member here. I am a VW guy and am helping a friend in need get a first car for her son. We found a 2006 X5 3.0 that was not running. I thought it would require major engine repairs, but turns out it only required replacement of some intake hoses. Happy day!

Then I take it out for a test drive...runs great. Stop to get gas...and notice brake fluid dripping below the driver door. Both brake lines to the rear had rotted through. I repaired both brake lines and have beautiful fluid running everywhere. Except of course the ABS needs to be bled.

I purchased a Foxwell 530 to attempt to bleed the ABS. With the 530 I am able to scan codes and clear them for the DSC which is also the ABS as I understand it?

However, when I try to bleed the ABS, I get a message that reads "A fault occurred during the activation of the DSC hydraulics". No code appears. I am stumped by this. I can pull codes and clear them, but cannot initiate the bleed.

Any ideas? Have been struggling with this for over a month now....thanx!
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:29 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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run the auto scan to look for codes. There are two different steps that need to be run, the abs pump and the abs block. Also you need to use a pressure bleeder don't bother trying to bleed with pump and pray on the pedal.
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Old 05-16-2020, 11:59 PM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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Thanx for responding so quickly!

An auto scan reveals the following:

Dynamic stability control
5EB1 - DSC: Steering angle sensor, supply

Automatic heating / air conditioning IHKA
0A - IHKA: AUC Sensor
1A - IHKA: Relay, heated rear window

Seat occupancy, passenger OC
03 - SBBF: Undervoltage
06 - SBBF: Control-unit fault
07 - SBBF: Control-unit fault

Light module
7A - LCM: Sidelight, front left, faulty

Nothing too exciting except the DSC related item.

Can you explain the abs pump and abs block comment? I thought it was a matter of leveraging the Foxwell to bleed the ABS and that was it?

Am I correct that DCS and ABS are one unit - all codes pertaining to DSC indicate the codes for the ABS also?

Thanx!

Z
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:31 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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X5 3.0 - 2006 - Trouble bleeding ABS

DSC and abs one unit. Steering angle will kill 4 x 4. Reset the code and run the calibration which means just turn lock to lock twice. Confirm SAS is working by reading the live data and confirm 0 close to straight. If you get repeated errors on SAS there is a rebuild hit for about 1/3 the price of new.

Back to initial query: there are two different items for DSC: a pump that pressurizes the system (doing the job of you pressing the brake pedal) and the abs block which can engage or disengage each of four corners.

Both the pump and the abs block can have bubbies so both need to be purged and need to be done with the scan tool and pressure bleeder.

Last edited by andrewwynn; 05-17-2020 at 11:35 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2020, 06:01 AM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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Thanx andrewwynn!

I purchased the Foxwell 530. I have attempted to go through ABS bleed procedure. However, when I try to bleed the ABS, I get a message that reads "A fault occurred during the activation of the DSC hydraulics". Any ideas?

When I do this, there is just the one option to bleed the ABS. Not two for pump and block. Does this bleed both or just one? And if only one, how would I bleed the other?

I want to get the brakes working first and then will tackle the SAS.

Thank you so much for your assistance!

Z
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:09 AM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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I think you missed my point about the SAS.

With SAS error DSC will be disabled and I suspect that interfering with accessing the abs module to perform the bleed.

I will try to pull up the menu on my foxwell and see exactly where to go.

I'm pretty sure you need to start in the bottom main menu "service" not "control" that's a common mistake just making sure you didn't go the wrong path.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:31 PM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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A-ha! Yes I did miss that.

Got it. Will kill code and try to reset tonight. Should be fine as when I drove it, all dash lights went off.

Will post my findings.

Thanx for your input! I hope to put this thing to rest this week and get back to my own project....

Z
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:48 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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use the "quick reset" function after doing auto scan most of the codes were from power interruption and will clear.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2020, 05:26 PM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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Hi there!

My mistake...I currently have two Foxwells. First I bought the GT60...but that does not cycle the ABS. Then they recommended I purchase the 630 Plus...this is the one I have.

I cleared the DSC code and started the car and turned the wheels left and right. The code stayed off.

When I go to cycle the ABS, I still get the same message - "A fault occurred during the activation of the DCS hydraulics". So no luck.

I know the battery is not the best, I am going to get a new battery tn ensure we have proper voltage at all times. Maybe that is the problem?

Look forward to your next insights. Thanx!

Z
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2020, 01:15 AM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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I have an update!

I know the battery is failing and thought that may be part of the problem. New battery in. No codes.

Try to bleed the ABS...and about 50% of the time it will run! Not sure why that is...but it is running al leas half the time. Put on a pressure bleeder. Opened one bleeder at a time and ran the pump multiple times on each corner. I saw some very very small bubbles come out. I assumed I would see larger bubbles.

End result...I think there is a little bit of improvement in the pedal.

Should I be seeing bigger bubbles? How many times should I need tot cycle the ABS on each corner?

Looking for insights....
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  #11  
Old 05-31-2020, 02:24 AM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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You need to have full power either engine running or on a battery charger to properly run the bleeding operations through the abs block or pump. It's a long path to the rear. Some people have made a loop all the way back to the master cylinder so they could cycle the fluid but I don't know how they got it back into the MC. With a clean enough collection jar you could put back into the pressure bleeder maybe put a pint though at a time after running the abs block and pump once or twice.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:32 AM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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I never would have guessed that...

Ok, will give that a try tomorrow. I feel like we are moving in the right direction. With the Foxwell 630...it only cycles the ABS for maybe 5 seconds. So I cycled it a few times. How long should I need to cycle for each corner?

One other question. The rears. There is less flow to those than the fronts with the pressure bleeder on - less pressure I should say. When the ABS cycles, there is plenty of flow. Is this normal?

Thanx for your continued guidance here. I have really struggled with this. I would love to get these brakes figured out in the next couple of days.

Z
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2020, 02:41 AM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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One other question. When is comes to bleeding the ABS....is it best to follow typical bleeding Z pattern beginning at right rear or start with the fronts?

I read a posting where a guy said to only do the fronts since the lines are in an X-pattern. But I thought each line coming out of the ABS is separate...so that did not make sense to me.

Thanx!
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2020, 04:13 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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You could try reading New Technical Information System. I believe that there are two sequences, one for bleeding without DSC and a different sequence with flushing the DSC.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...onents/2foKDSt
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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 05-31-2020 at 04:18 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:26 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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+1. Find the steps in TIS. once you have dialed in tis for your car, bookmark the start page.


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e53-x5-3.0i-sav/

This is my start page for my engine


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  #16  
Old 06-06-2020, 04:20 AM
zmaninco zmaninco is offline
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We have brakes! I want to thank folks for contributing to this thread - in particular andrewwynn.

It took far longer to accomplish than I wanted...but we got it done. I also want to post the resolution to the problem in hopes it can help others.

My issue was the common one - air introduction into the brake system which led to air stuck in the ABS unit. I was leveraging the Foxwell 630nt. I had and still have a strange issue in that when I initiate the abs bleed procedure, about 50% of the time nothing happens. But the other 50%, the abs pump will run. Not sure why that happens, but the workaround was simply too do it again.

Based on space limitations in my garage, I could only work on one side of the car at a time. I started on the passenger side since that included the right rear wheel. I used a pressure bleeder on the master cylinder and pumped it up to about 13 pounds...I was not comfortable going any higher than that although I have read others have. It seems like overkill to me.

I put a clear hose on the bleeder valve and ran that into a container to catch the brake fluid and prevent sucking back any air. This is really critical. Will explain in a few sentences.

With pressure in the system, I started the car to get the full power of the ABS (thank you andrewwynn). I opened the rear right bleeder valve. In my case, there was less pressure at both rear calipers than at the fronts. This must be normal as when the ABS pump ran, both fronts and rears had equal pressure. I ran the ABS pump several times on each wheel. With my Foxwell, it only ran for maybe 5 seconds and then stopped.

Especially in the rear wheels, it took a little longer to see the effect. I saw thousands of little tiny bubbles. I suspect this is the same effect as shaking a bottle of brake fluid, which creates bubbles. Since there is air in the ABS, it shook the brake fluid and created tiny bubbles. A couple big bubbles came out. And then thousands of little bubbles...thousands. After running the pump a few times, I was left with thousands of tiny, tiny bubbles.

Here is where it is important to use that clear hose on the bleeder. Without that hose, I never would have seen these tiny bubbles. I also held a light to the hose to see these bubbles. Without doing this, I would not have noticed them.

The pressure bleeder was still on. I ran a lot of fluid through...about half a quart. After a few minutes, the bubbles became less and less. Finally, no more tiny bubbles. Close that bleeder valve and move to next wheel.

Exact same result. Thousands of tiny, tiny bubbles. Did exactly the same. Run pump several times. See the thousands of bubbles. Keep the pressure on, watch bubbles dissipate until all gone. Move to next wheel.

End result. Perfect brakes.

The tiny bubbles really confused me. First I thought to keep running the pump until they disappeared. But the more I ran the pump, the more bubbles I got. Run the pump and then push through fluid until it all clears up.

I hope this helps someone!
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:52 AM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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Persistence pays off.
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