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E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 10-30-2017, 10:20 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Let the N62 Snake Oil Games Begin!

2006 650i - 130k Miles.

I have done many, many fixes on this car myself over the years. I was just about to pull the trigger on doing the upper valve covers and timing chain covers myself in the driveway (moderate oil leaks) when i noticed the symptoms of valve steam seal issues. Basically ill get a slight poof of smoke if i idle for a few minutes, then hit the gas. It does not do it on a cold start or for brief idles (so basically its just starting to be an issue). Now.. If i replace the aforementioned timing and valve covers, it is very likely the valve steam seal issue will get worse and the whole job will need to be done over again.

Also, the CE light is on (due to vacuum seal issues / oil leaks). I'm mentally and financially pretty much done with the car but i would like to drive it for another year if possible.

Rather then pay ~3k to have someone do the valve steam seals/timing covers/Valve covers I decided to play with snake oils as a band-aid (if they screw something up, whatever, ill go buy an M)

Magic Potions in my arsenal so far (I've reserved these prior to using this and there are many people that swear by them):

1. ATP AT-205 Re-Seal - 8oz bottle will treat a 6 quart capacity (650 hold 8.5qt), adjust accordingly.

Notes: Added one bottle initially, the leaks slowed down then seemed to come back in 1000 miles, added a second bottle. Leaks stopped for now.

2. Bar's Leaks VS-1 (valve stem steal) Additive, 16.9 fl. oz.

Last week added whole bottle, CE light went out and stayed out, 3 days later the idle then smoke issue seemed to go away.

That's all the data i have for now. I know its a band-aid fix, but like i said i'm pretty much ready to buy a new car at this point... If i get one more year out of this 650 without ruining my driveway I'm happy.
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2017, 05:44 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Snake oils are just that. If they fix one problem, they could damage other parts of the motor. If you are trying to swell up your rubber seals, what else could possibly be effected? The valve cover gaskets are cheap to fix, but labor intensive. If I was going to do anything to the lubrication inside of the engine, I would let an oil company formulate the oil. Will the snake oil people cover unexpected damages from their product?
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2017, 06:42 PM
Monsterrailroad Monsterrailroad is offline
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People can hate on the Bar's Leaks VS-1 additive all they want but it actually really does work for small to moderate valve seal leaks. Not only does it work very well, it does NOT cause any other internal damage. When the oil change is due next make sure to again add another bottle of the Bar's Leak. It will be all good.
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:51 AM
gunyvw gunyvw is offline
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ive been using things like these for years... with fantastic success

ie i have a 03 ford explorer sport that i brought... 8 yrs ago... and i call it 'the go get it'
use it for everything... park right up front... pull ya out the ditch etc etc... it was my 3rd wheel... now.. as of last week its my 4th
didn't know it had a blown head gasket... a shot of blue devil and STILL kicking 292k at last look... had 224k when i got it.
...not without issue... as it gets super cold... like 15 20 degrees i may have a problem... another shot and gone again...
hell it WONT blow in the hottest conditions... and it LIVES WIDE open.... it stays out front pulls off effortlessly makes 254lbs of torque at 3000 rpm from just 200hp
lots of car drivers seem to get angry because it moves off so quickly... at the next light they try it... its gone... i think to myself... hell it's BLOWN and still.
until recently it even looked great... old guy side swiped me and his insurance gave me a grand.

years ago things like this where considered junk... now with nano technologies, computer modeling, simulations and testing...
you actually have real viable solutions to these issues at hand.
but
you choose your battles... knock wood i haven't had to use any on the 6 and most likely wont
but if the need arises i know i can count on the stuff to do wonders... like bring me from the side of the road to home from a thousand miles away

i've used... and recommend the oil stop for rear main seals as well... have gotten good feedback on those also
to me a car is a tool... a machine... i choose my battles carefully ... if the repair is as crazy as all outdoors the, labor hrs massive, the repair cost(s) exceed the vehicle itself
i'm going to do what's necessary to get my monetary usage out of it.

with that being said when cars leave me under those conditions they usually go to the crusher.... as i like to get ALL of my value out of 'em...
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:06 PM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Reporting back, 17 days later... CE light went out and stayed out 2 days after adding the Bar's Leaks VS-1 (valve stem steal) Additive, 16.9 fl. oz. Engine runs noticeably more smooth and no more smoke after long idle. Also seems to have helped other leaks on valve covers and upper timing covers. Seems like a win for now, will report back in a few months. Also for the record I have always changed the oil every 5k miles and at 100k I started using Mobile one High Mileage Full Syn.

Last edited by oRIDDLERo; 11-17-2017 at 02:13 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:15 PM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsterrailroad View Post
People can hate on the Bar's Leaks VS-1 additive all they want but it actually really does work for small to moderate valve seal leaks. Not only does it work very well, it does NOT cause any other internal damage. When the oil change is due next make sure to again add another bottle of the Bar's Leak. It will be all good.
I'm going to have to second that from what i have experienced so far... This stuff really works! I really don't want to pay $2500 for stem seal job on a car with 130k miles.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2017, 05:04 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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I did do some research on the Mobil 1 High Mileage oils. Mobil is adding some additives while blending the oil, to help reduce seal failures in the motors. The additives are swelling the rubber seals, to extend the life of the seals. Since Mobil knows what additives to their High Mileage oils, I would recommend using their product based on all the time I have worked with their lube engineers. The oil does not meet BMW's long term spec, but who really believes in running oil at 15k mile oil changes? BMW has had to change their oil on change frequency on their newer turbo motors, based on lubrication failure problems. They are now down to 10k mile changes, which is still a stretch on a oil change frequency.
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:58 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Reporting back with more findings in my Snake oil Games!

1. ATP AT-205 Re-Seal - 8oz bottle will treat a 6 quart capacity (650 hold 8.5qt), adjust accordingly.

Notes: Seemed to slow the oil leaks then stop them initially. Additive is very thin viscosity-wise. Leaks came back hardcore after around 3000 miles.

2. Bar's Leaks VS-1 (valve stem steal) Additive, 16.9 fl. oz.

Notes: Great stuff. Definitely helps with valve stem seals, start using it proactively before things get really bad. Before adding it i would get a small poof of blue smoke after a long idle at a red light... After: smoke is gone and has been for a year so far.

3. Bar's Leaks 1040 Grey Rear Main Seal Repair Concentrate - 16.9 oz. -- Added 1.5 bottles

This stuff very well may be the cure!

Notes: I dumped this in the oil reservoir. It was already a little low from the leak, so the excess oil in the crankcase was not an issue. Ran the engine for about 30 mins and no change, still same dripping while running. I drove the vehicle every day approx 30 miles. After a week, the leak was barely noticable, just the bottom of the transmission housing felt a little oily, but no puddle/stains in the driveway. After 2-3 weeks, the leak was gone. And I mean gone, not a drop. I was impressed how well this worked on this problem and thought it fixed it permanently. Then about 4000mi later, I did an oil change. For the first few hundred miles after that, no leaks, then after about 1k miles, I noticed the leak started to return. I immediately picked up another bottle of this stuff and dumped it in, about 1 week later, the leak was gone. I now don't even mess around anymore and just add a bottle of this stuff to every oil change, and it is under control, its a small price to pay (even for life of vehicle) to not have to deal with the rear main seal. For me, this product makes a night and day difference, I have been using it for approx 30k miles, but depending on the root cause of your leak, your mileage may vary.

Summary:

Yes i know.. changing out the gaskets is the only real fix to the solution. I am capable of changing all of the gaskets that leak in this engine myself, but at the same time I feel like if I change the upper timing gaskets and valve-cover gaskets (and all the smaller gaskets that come with the job) and the alternator mounting bracket gasket the oil will just find the next weak link, probably somewhere impossible to reach like the rear seal and it will be a never ending gasket leak chase.

At 140,000 miles this car is approaching end of life for me and I just don't want to spend 20 hours in the driveway changing gaskets at this point (or pay someone $3000 to do the valve stem seals). Also, if I change above mentioned gaskets I know the valve stem seals are coming and it would have been a waste of my time.. at that point I will be done with the car.

Using these additives has given me a few more years with the car and I'm very happy with the results so far. Once the valve steam seal issue can no longer be curbed with Bar's Leaks VS-1, the leaks beat the snake oil, or the transmission goes, I'm done.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2018, 05:58 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Changing oil tomorrow 140k miles, changing oil viscosity from Mobil one 5w30 (high mileage) to Mobil One 10w40 (high mileage) and will be adding another 1.5 bottle of fresh Bar's Leaks 1040 Grey Rear Main Seal Repair Concentrate - 16.9 oz. If Idle smoke returns will add another Bar's Leaks VS-1 (valve stem steal) Additive to the fresh oil.

I have HIGH HOPES for this combo.. If it stops dripping maybe I will be able to clean up the mess and re-seal my driveway!
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:14 AM
derekwilkinson derekwilkinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oRIDDLERo View Post
Changing oil tomorrow 140k miles, changing oil viscosity from Mobil one 5w30 (high mileage) to Mobil One 10w40 (high mileage) and will be adding another 1.5 bottle of fresh Bar's Leaks 1040 Grey Rear Main Seal Repair Concentrate - 16.9 oz. If Idle smoke returns will add another Bar's Leaks VS-1 (valve stem steal) Additive to the fresh oil.

I have HIGH HOPES for this combo.. If it stops dripping maybe I will be able to clean up the mess and re-seal my driveway!
How did it end up working?
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2018, 05:24 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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The Mobil 1 High Mileage oils have a seal conditioner blended in with the oil, that should reduce valve seal wear & other rubber seals.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:34 PM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Reporting back on operation snake oil:

Last week it got cold here in North New Jersey, although my additives helped to slow down the leaks considerably over the last 1.5 years they finally catastrophically failed along with the temperature drop. 1 quart of oil in = 1 quart of oil out within a mile.

Shopped around, called around 10 looking for pricing on - gaskets for upper timing chain covers, valve covers, alternator mounting bracket... Found a shop with tons of experience on this engine and they did everything for 1600 including parts.

The shop recommended doing the valve stem seals but I decided against it because my car almost never smokes. I could've done them for an extra $1000, but I decided to hold off.. When the valve stem seals die I will be done with the car.

I truly do think the valve stem seal additive really slowed down the valve stem seal smoke. Last year my car was starting to smoke after long periods of idle, after adding the additive it went away within days and never came back. Now the only way you will get it to smoke is if you cold start, idle for 10 minutes and then slam on the accelerator which is something I just avoid doing on Old Faithful LOL.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:36 PM
derekwilkinson derekwilkinson is offline
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Wow, that's a great price. I think I would have paid the extra $1000... it would help when you sell the car I would think
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:00 PM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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Originally Posted by derekwilkinson View Post
Wow, that's a great price. I think I would have paid the extra $1000... it would help when you sell the car I would think
Yeah I though long and hard about it. It would have been 3k for Valve stem seals, alt bracket, and upper timing covers vs $1600 for everything but the VSS. I'm only looking to get another year or so out of the car...

Like I said it pretty much never smokes unless condition = cold start/10 min idle/slam gas, so I'm ok with that.

Last edited by oRIDDLERo; 11-19-2018 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:24 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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That was a great price!
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:33 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
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That was a great price!

Yeah, I made a spreadsheet and spoke with around 10 shops. His price was the best in the North NJ area. They have done this job so many times that they know exactly what they are doing, so its pretty much muscle memory.

If anyone in the area is interested PM me and ill get you the details.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2018, 08:33 PM
The Thomas J The Thomas J is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oRIDDLERo View Post
Yeah, I made a spreadsheet and spoke with around 10 shops. His price was the best in the North NJ area. They have done this job so many times that they know exactly what they are doing, so its pretty much muscle memory.

If anyone in the area is interested PM me and ill get you the details.
There is a shop on RT9 in Saryville called Bimmer Clinic that only works on BMW's. If I get jammed up I may check them out.
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2020, 03:53 PM
khcwang khcwang is offline
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Help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by oRIDDLERo View Post
Yeah, I made a spreadsheet and spoke with around 10 shops. His price was the best in the North NJ area. They have done this job so many times that they know exactly what they are doing, so its pretty much muscle memory.

If anyone in the area is interested PM me and ill get you the details.
I have a e60 545i with the N62 engine.

I have the blue smoke and oil consumption issue like you. I was quoted $9000 from Springfield BMW for the job.

The car is now 97000 miles and I am planning to keep it for another few years.

Please share you experience of the types of oil I should add and the shop you found here in Northern Jersey that is reliable to fix the problem.

Thank you very much.
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Old 05-24-2020, 03:59 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Let the N62 Snake Oil Games Begin!

Quote:
Originally Posted by khcwang View Post
I have a e60 545i with the N62 engine.



I have the blue smoke and oil consumption issue like you. I was quoted $9000 from Springfield BMW for the job.



The car is now 97000 miles and I am planning to keep it for another few years.



Please share you experience of the types of oil I should add and the shop you found here in Northern Jersey that is reliable to fix the problem.



Thank you very much.


This is an old post but your oil consumption issues are due to one of the following: valve cover leak, timing cover leaks, alternator bracket leak, PCV/CCV, or valve stem seals. If you have lots of smoke and oil consumption your issue is PCV/CCV or valve stem seals. There is a guy in NY that may still replacing valve stem seals for $2,500.


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Last edited by BabyUnicornTaco; 05-24-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 05-24-2020, 05:47 PM
khcwang khcwang is offline
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Originally Posted by BabyUnicornTaco View Post
This is an old post but your oil consumption issues are due to one of the following: valve cover leak, timing cover leaks, alternator bracket leak, PCV/CCV, or valve stem seals. If you have lots of smoke and oil consumption your issue is PCV/CCV or valve stem seals. There is a guy in NY that may still replacing valve stem seals for $2,500.


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The blue smoke I got is minor and oil consumption starts 3000 miles after the oil change and will need to add 1 qt oil every 1000 miles until the next oil change.

The dealership said the car needs "valve seals and head port cleaning" and the job is around $9000.

The CE light came up a month ago and still on. I would like to know if adding any oil that mentioned in the post will help to solve the problem. Or whether member oRIDDLERo can recommend the shop that he found here in northern jersey to do the job cheaper.

Thank you.
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2020, 06:01 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Send bmwoem1 a PM & ask him how far from you he isfrom you. The best contact will be to email him at [email protected].
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2020, 06:22 PM
khcwang khcwang is offline
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Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
Send bmwoem1 a PM & ask him how far from you he isfrom you. The best contact will be to email him at [email protected].
I just email him. Does he own a shop that can fix the problem?
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:08 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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He is a BMW Tech that does this on his own time, never heard anyone complain about his work!

Last edited by HerbP; 05-26-2020 at 06:19 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2020, 07:25 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Your oil consumption is not good but it can get worse. Would you do this job yourself with the tools?


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Old 05-26-2020, 10:42 AM
estrov estrov is offline
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Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
Is is a BMW Tech that does this on his own time, never heard anyone complain about his work!
Did valve cover gaskets for me. No issues at all.
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