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Old 03-12-2019, 03:07 PM
aidan7 aidan7 is offline
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California dealers: is .9% APR for real or a teaser?

Question for California BMW dealers.

On multiple dealer websites I see an offer of .9% APR for up to 60 months for an X1 xDrive28i for "well-qualified [blah, blah, blah]"

But San Francisco BMW claims this offer only exists for 24 months. They further claim that the APR for 60 months is "1.9%"

Are there any California dealerships actually honoring the .9% for 60 months APR?
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:36 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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BMWUSA.com was advertising 1.9% for up to 60 months when we bought our X3 on year ago. Not only were there no tricks, but I got a $500 credit on my BMW FS Signature Visa card for financing the car/truck through BMW FS. I financed $50k, and put the remaining $5.3k due on the car on the BMW FS Signature Visa, earning 4% in rebates (~$210), which I redeemed (along with my previous accumulated points) in a few weeks because I'd bought a new BMW.

Print a copy of that screen shot, and take it with you when you go in to negotiate.
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:58 PM
aidan7 aidan7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
.....

Print a copy of that screen shot, and take it with you when you go in to negotiate.
Hi Autoputzer - two NorCal dealerships have now claimed it's ".9% for 24 months" in spite of documentation that says otherwise. I called BMW customer service to ask which dealers are participating in this offer. BMW cs was evasive, said they don't know, to contact each dealer separately.

If you note from the attachment, it says: "Rate is available from participating dealers..." But near as I can tell, there are no "participating dealers."
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:57 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan7 View Post
Hi Autoputzer - two NorCal dealerships have now claimed it's ".9% for 24 months" in spite of documentation that says otherwise. I called BMW customer service to ask which dealers are participating in this offer. BMW cs was evasive, said they don't know, to contact each dealer separately.

If you note from the attachment, it says: "Rate is available from participating dealers..." But near as I can tell, there are no "participating dealers."
There's a lot of back-and-forth about who pays for incentives. Often, the dealer has to throw in something. Maybe that's the case with that 0.9% rate.

You can get a 60-month CD now for 3%. My credit union is offering 3.68% APR for 40 months. Even after paying income tax on CD interest, a 1.9% car loan for 60 months is "free money" in your pocket.

I'm philosophically opposed to car loans in general, and loans on luxury cars in particular. But, at 1.9% plus a $500 credit on my BMW FS Visa account, I decided to "sign and drive," just like the hand-to-mouth, paycheck-to-paycheck crowd over at the Kia dealership. It's fun making the $875 payment every month. It's sort of like being one of the little people.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 03-12-2019 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:37 AM
aidan7 aidan7 is offline
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After I confronted them, now one dealership is saying they were mistaken. I just happen to be opposed to lying and cheating, which is what I'm finding at multiple San Francisco bay area dealerships.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:53 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan7 View Post
After I confronted them, now one dealership is saying they were mistaken. I just happen to be opposed to lying and cheating, which is what I'm finding at multiple San Francisco bay area dealerships.
Assume anybody at a car dealership is lying... if their lips are moving. The only thing that counts are things that are written down. The only information you can count on at a dealership is the information you bring with you.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:51 AM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan7 View Post
After I confronted them, now one dealership is saying they were mistaken. I just happen to be opposed to lying and cheating, which is what I'm finding at multiple San Francisco bay area dealerships.

Welcome to the new norm
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:01 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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So, are we sure we want to use the "Ask a BMW Dealer" forum to bash BMW dealers and to call them liars?

Perhaps someone can explain to me how, exactly, this encourages continuing participation from the few BMW salespeople who still give us valuable information and patiently respond to our questions.

At ease, everyone. And THINK before you screed.

Thank you.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:05 AM
aidan7 aidan7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
Assume anybody at a car dealership is lying... if their lips are moving. The only thing that counts are things that are written down. The only information you can count on at a dealership is the information you bring with you.
Sad but true, Autoputzer. Nevertheless, the parade of lies/deceptions (much of it in writing) is exceptional. mho - it's damaging the BMW brand.

We did not encounter these issues at Honda and Subaru (cars for our kid). We recently sauntered into the Subaru dealership and asked about financing. We were handed a sheet that matched up wth what's currently advertised online.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:56 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Obviously I wasn't there. But OP is characterizing the reported interaction with the subject dealerships in a way that asserts intentional deception on the part of multiple dealers.

If this is true, BMW USA would, I'm sure, be interested to learn the specifics of any intentionally deceptive practices that went on.

I, too, have had interesting experiences at dealerships of various brands of cars, including bait-and-switch wherein the advertised car was not available when we arrived for an appointment to see that specific car. As we were preparing to leave the dealership, magically, the "unavailable" advertised car appeared and we bought it for the advertised price.
So yeah, bad stuff happens.

However, in the instance reported in this thread, it is unclear who, if anyone, lied, or who was simply mis-informed. One dealer was willing to honor the advertised rate in the end. Caught in a lie? Maybe. Made a mistake, who knows?

It is good to remember that the MSRP is the price at which dealers try to sell if the market will allow. They are not required to do dealer contribution deals unless asked to do so. In some markets, like Northern California, where 1,500 square foot 1960's era ranch houses sell for over $3 million in bidding wars, there is a lot of money chasing questionable value. People who shop in that region are competing against too many dollars chasing too little value. Buyers aren't entitled to anything that the market doesn't determine. If, in fact, some BMW dealers in that region engage in shady practices, and the market tolerates it, we can shop elsewhere.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:13 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Anyone on this forum should be a smart buyer. And not a "gotchya" buyer.

By that I mean you all know that dealers are allowed to mark up rates. Right? That is 100% well established here.

So if you see an interest rate published online, for your zip code, and the dealer rate is stated differently, you know that they are marking it up. Just ask! Show them the ad. They will be forthright pretty quickly.

One thing you cannot do is assume all captive lenders have the same rules. I can't speak for Honda, but I know that with Subaru they cannot mark up the subvened rates. So offering a rate sheet is an easy disclosure.

mjb

p.s. It's OK to "bash" a CA / dealer if they are indeed being deceptive. If when called out they say, "Uh, oh, I made a mistake," that's likely crap. If they admit that they have been marking up longer terms, then they are at least forthright.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:18 PM
KevinMR KevinMR is offline
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I would just suggest that you be informed and work to get the best deal possible, and not take anything personal. I just upgraded my Nikon camera and went to a local shop to buy the new (mirrorless) Z6 and turn in my older D7000 body. Nikon has a program currently with enhanced trade in values on their website, and I was able to see that my D7000 would garner between $300 and $375 in trade in value, depending on condition. I went to the store, and they told me that they would give me $265 in trade in value for my camera body. I pulled out my phone, showed them the value on the Nikon website, and they acknowledged their "error" and gave me the right trade in number. I did the deal and moved on. Sure...they were lowballing my camera, and that might work with other customers, but I was buying a camera from them, not entering a long term relationship and I realize that they are a profit making entity and the profit will be made from ME. No offense taken.

Do the same in your car dealings and don't sweat the last nickel on every deal like the guys on Leasehackr etc that grind for every advantage and after they get a car they are thinking of their next one or lamenting that they are paying $14 more per month than someone else on the site.

Just my $0.02.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2019, 07:31 PM
Greg @ East Bay BMW Greg @ East Bay BMW is offline
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Can confirm it's advertised at 0.9%.

If you need help, please feel free to PM me.

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  #14  
Old 03-16-2019, 01:01 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinMR View Post
I would just suggest that you be informed and work to get the best deal possible, and not take anything personal. I just upgraded my Nikon camera and went to a local shop to buy the new (mirrorless) Z6 and turn in my older D7000 body. Nikon has a program currently with enhanced trade in values on their website, and I was able to see that my D7000 would garner between $300 and $375 in trade in value, depending on condition. I went to the store, and they told me that they would give me $265 in trade in value for my camera body. I pulled out my phone, showed them the value on the Nikon website, and they acknowledged their "error" and gave me the right trade in number. I did the deal and moved on. Sure...they were lowballing my camera, and that might work with other customers, but I was buying a camera from them, not entering a long term relationship and I realize that they are a profit making entity and the profit will be made from ME. No offense taken.

Do the same in your car dealings and don't sweat the last nickel on every deal like the guys on Leasehackr etc that grind for every advantage and after they get a car they are thinking of their next one or lamenting that they are paying $14 more per month than someone else on the site.

Just my $0.02.
My vote for Best Ask-a-Dealer Post Ever.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:53 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Another interesting tidbit of information....

Many times, people say that sales should be direct to the manufacturer because that would make things "easier / better". I have said a couple things as an opinion many times:

1. Direct from the manufacturer might make things easier, and faster, but it wont make it cheaper.
2. People dont really care about point one so much. They dont necessarily want "cheaper", they just want to know that John and Jane doe down the street did not pay less than they did.

Now as many of you know, in addition to my new X3, my own daily driver is now a tesla model 3. I went through the tesla buying experience ( very easy, fast, and everyone pays the same price... just not "cheaper").

To support my point number 2, Tesla recently announced price cuts on all of their vehicles. Other manufacturers shift pricing all the time, but its not always transparent. Either the MSRP goes up a little, or the price to the dealer is shifted, or the factory to dealer incentives change, or the factory to consumer incentives change. ALL of those change the price, but people dont know how much because each person negotiates with their dealer, and the price is "negotiable". Tesla doesnt have that. Everyone pays the same price, so any and all changes to pricing is public knowledge.

So, Tesla announced price cuts on vehicle features (autopilot features but the feature doesnt matter, no different than BMW including navigation for free, or giving an "option credit"). They also reduced pricing on vehicles.

People on every major tesla form threw a FIT. They threw a fit because "The car is cheaper now than I paid for it 3 months agoooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!#[email protected]#[email protected]%!$%@" . They threw so much of a fit ( both on major tesla forums and prominant bloggers), that tesla capitulated and RAISED THE PRICE BACK. Why were people so upset? Because a "new" tesla buyer was going to pay less than they did 3-4-6 months ago.

Its like none of those people who bought teslas had ever bought a car before. When that was brought to their attention (by me and a few others), that all manufacturers change pricing, you just dont see it as transparently, there were either crickets, or excuses on how THIS was different because...(insert stupid reason).

If anyone thinks this is strange, its not really. As I said, people just all want to pay the same price.... They ALSO want everyone who purchased after then to pay at least as much as they did (but preferably more, so they can feel like they got a deal / made a smart decision on when to buy). This is how people act when cars are sold direct (and manufacturers WILL always need to adjust pricing to move one product or another, or for other reasons). Tesla is no different from any other manufacturer in that regard. The difference is, they have to do so publicly, and suffer public shame, either way.

If they lower pricing, people who bought cars 6 months ago feel like they should get a refund on the difference (they actually do... seriously). If prices are increased, they certainly are not going to write a check to tesla for the difference in the increased price, they are just going to smile smugly and tell their family / friends what a good deal they got because, look, the pricing is higher now. People who were on the fence about buying one at price XXX then complain about price XXX + 1k and say "I just saw it for price XXX, no WAY am I paying XXX+1k !!!!!! @#[email protected]#[email protected]$".

People buying from a dealer know that, the price is the price you are negotiating right now, and may or may not be more or less tomorrow. Everyone gets that. Not everyone likes it, but everyone gets that. Direct sales means everyone pays the same price on the day they purchase, this is true... but humans being what they are, they seem to think that the price they paid should always be the same or lower than the price someone pays later. That cant be the case, and causes a bunch of issues.



TL ; DR version

Manufacturer direct selling is faster, but not cheaper, and brings with it its own challenges for both the customer and manufacturer, as people really only care about themselves in a business transaction.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:46 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
People on every major tesla form threw a FIT. They threw a fit because "The car is cheaper now than I paid for it 3 months agoooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!#[email protected]#[email protected]%!$%@" . They threw so much of a fit ( both on major tesla forums and prominant bloggers), that tesla capitulated and RAISED THE PRICE BACK. Why were people so upset? Because a "new" tesla buyer was going to pay less than they did 3-4-6 months ago.
The $6k-$8k price cuts on some Model 3(e.g.) is around 15%-ish, while price cuts on top trim Model X, from $144k to $99k, is 30%+.

These price changes, even with 3% pop, are quite drastic, and it is the magnitude of the price cuts that get current Tesla owners all upset.

My take on Tesla prices is that, as quoted from the other Tesla's thread:

"The market is efficient, the items listed above(....etc, etc) are accounted for in the price. Surely one can ignore the above items and overpay, but Tesla as a money making business agrees to the market, and adjust accordingly. "
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