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F87 M2 (2016 - current)
BMW will be unveiling the upcoming F87 M2 and this is the place to talk about it. Are you adding one of these to your garage?

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Old 03-06-2019, 10:10 AM
bmwvs bmwvs is offline
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BMW M2C slower than Golf GTI on track?

So I planned to buy BMW M2 Competition. I started reading reviews, watched Youtube etc. Recently I watched comparison of BMW M2C vs. Audi RS3 - for drag race Audi is faster. Then I read comments below the video like 'don't look at 0-60MPH because M2C will outpace Audi on track.'

So I found this:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

It clearly says lap times - there is no Audi RS3, but there is a much cheaper GOLF GTI:

BMW M2C: 7:52 min
Golf GTI: 7:49 min

What is going on? Are these results inaccurate? I thought - why would I want to spend so much more on BMW M2C when a GTI is faster on track. I'm confused - are all those BMW M the hype? If not, where is the hard proof like I provided above? If GTI is faster, then I'm sure RS3 will be even faster on track. Where is this legendary "ultimate experience" - it may be ultimate, but it's slower than a GTI?

What would justify 30K more payment for M2C vs GTI?

Thanks.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:14 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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LOL. So the driver plays no part?

I beat F-Fords like cheap drums with my F-Vee when we were allowed mixed class races. 1600 cc versus 1200 cc 52 Hp.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:17 AM
bmwvs bmwvs is offline
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I assume (pretty sure) all these Nurburg drivers are at least semi-professional. Why would they send a poor driver to do speed testing - it would be counter productive.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:40 PM
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BeemerGuy BeemerGuy is offline
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I considered the GTI before buying the M2. It's a heck of a fun little car, more practical than the M2 (what with the hatch and better gas mileage) and about half the price. But it ain't no BMW. And it's FWD, which I don't care for, and has a dinky 4 cylinder with loads of turbo lag.

I really doubt that the GTI is faster. I would have to wonder where those Wkik folks get their data, if it is comparable (i.e. weather conditions, etc.) or even accurate.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:49 PM
bmwvs bmwvs is offline
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What else would you consider besides GTI? Does RWD make that much difference? What about something cheaper than M2C that is worth considering? I like GTI practicality indeed (for a daily driver).
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:07 PM
Ziggy328xi Ziggy328xi is offline
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if it makes you feel any better, theres videos on utube of a honda civic type R beating an m3 around the nurburgring soo
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:18 PM
bmwvs bmwvs is offline
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ok so you suggest it's not about speed but RWD? I could consider cadillac for comfort, but what's the point..
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:09 PM
Ziggy328xi Ziggy328xi is offline
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ok so you suggest it's not about speed but RWD? I could consider cadillac for comfort, but what's the point..
i think its more about handling and driving dynamics than anything else.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:58 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwvs View Post
What else would you consider besides GTI? Does RWD make that much difference? What about something cheaper than M2C that is worth considering? I like GTI practicality indeed (for a daily driver).
Do you know what Spec Miata cars are? They are ~130 hp at the wheels two seaters prepped for cheap racing with minimal modifications. Many a BMW and Porsche driver learned hard lesson in humility by underestimating them.

I personally got passed on the track by Spec Miata, by Subaru Impreza WRX and by Scion FR-S while driving the car in signature picture. Did I give a $hit? Nope, the only reason you spend that much money on a car is because driving it is the most fun you will ever have with your clothes on. If you are buying a car like M2 for a Nuerburgring lap times and spec bar fight, you just might be throwing your money away.

I own both VW Golf GTI and the car in signature picture. Frankly, I couldn't care less even if GTI was faster on the track (it isn't) - there is simply no comparison. One is a grocery getter and will stay a grocery getter no matter how much horsepower they cram under the hood. The other one is unbelievably well sorted-out sports car and, even when driven on the public road at reasonable speeds, gives the driver emotions GTI simply isn't capable of.

If you are a driver, question you asked is totally irrelevant. Test drive both and chose the one that suits your driving style better and gets you bigger satisfaction while driving it. Hp, lb ft, Nuerburgring lap times ... totally irrelevant.
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Last edited by Mark K; 03-15-2019 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:09 AM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
... Test drive both and chose the one that suits your driving style better and gets you bigger satisfaction while driving it. Hp, lb ft, Nuerburgring lap times ... totally irrelevant.
+1

Friends ask me...."what's up....biz slow....why the M2 for more than 2.5 years?" Nope - biz is great....the simple answer - I have found "The One". The M2 is not the bestest in any category but the witches brew it offers enchants. The true test - push the start button....are you smiling?
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Last edited by Capobranco; 03-16-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:57 AM
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Someday when my life is back together, I will be an owner of a used M2 for the simple fact that, in my mind, it is the perfect car. Not too fast, not too slow. Well balanced and most importantly, FUN to drive from what I have read. That is the whole reason why we obsess over these vehicles. We want to have fun and enjoy ourselves. If we are not doing that, then we are in it for the wrong reasons.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:49 PM
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I know I'm late but what I don't see mentioned anywhere is that this was a "Clubsport S" with "'Ring-focused chassis setup and 306bhp".

Later in the article (which is found in the footnote 207) it states "with its extra power and overhauled suspension, the Clubsport S is a long way beyond the ability of those cars. For reference, a Golf GTI Performance Pack will lap the Nürburgring in 8min 26sec, nearly 37 seconds slower than the Clubsport S."
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