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  #1  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:22 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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The Current Purpose of This Section???

Ask A BMW Dealer is supposed to be a forum to "Get all of your BMW pricing, ordering, buying, financing, and leasing questions answered here!"

BMWNA doesn't want dealers to disclose anything but MSRP.
BMWNA doesn't want financing terms and rates discussed beyond repeating information available on the BMW web site.
BMWNA doesn't want lease money factors discussed here.
BMWNA doesn't want dealers to discuss invoice, statistics on how deeply into holdback they are selling, dealership sales volume, or internal performance rankings and AVP.
The Pricing and Ordering Guide sticky is for 2018.
There is not current insight offered regarding lease-end buyouts and dynamic pricing.
Questions regarding extended service contracts and other nuts and bolts pricing, ordering, and buying questions go unanswered.

What's going on??
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2019, 05:18 PM
southcoastguy southcoastguy is offline
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How many organizations provide profit margins, discounts, and money costs on public websites?
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2019, 08:18 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by southcoastguy View Post
How many organizations provide profit margins, discounts, and money costs on public websites?
Almost none, in my experience.


Back in the dark ages when BMW dealers in the Southern California area used to use lots of print advertising, especially newspaper, on a Saturday or Sunday, one could compare the offers from the competing dealers, right there in print. Dealer A would have the $399 lease with $2,500 drive offs and Dealer B would have the $359 lease with $3,500 drive offs and you could do the math and then shop hard, if you wanted to. Offered selling prices were printed in ads as well, as in "MSRP $32,000, save $3,000 this week only." That's gone now.

Then the advertising went to direct mail and then the internet -- and when it hit the internet, as time passed, the restrictions regarding what dealers could put on their sites started. Then BMW went to a single-vendor for web site support and all the dealers' sites started to look about the same. And now a third-party "helps" dealers track web inquiries and directs prospects to local dealers if the prospect enters a zip code or requests a dealer contact. And who knows how that data is or isn't shared, according to hidden rules laid down by the Mothership?

As that began to take firm hold, CAs and other insiders became less active on this forum.

A lot of the blame is on us -- we called them liars and were not always... courteous, for sure.

But what's really happening, I feel, is that the auto manufacturers want dealers to become delivery and service centers, and not deal makers. Which almost works in theory. But $50,000 ~ $100,000 purchases run into big numbers for many people and the negotiations are not always as simple as "come haul away my old washer and dryer and deliver and install the new ones."

Still hard for me to think of automobiles as appliances. Not sure how to eliminate the horse-trading when trade-ins and custom orders come into the mix.

But the by-line for this forum is "tips and tricks." Guess that was then and this is now.

However, is disclosing lease money factor buy rate really inside info? Where's the line? Other than a couple of stalwart dealers who occasionally post "I'm still here. Hit me if I can help," we don't get much insight from the folks who are selling BMWs every day.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:47 PM
mauicoug mauicoug is offline
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I really thought this forum was to help people obtain better deals, educate them on all things BMW. I know I got really ripped on my first deal, I questioned the money factor and they swore up and down it wasn't marked up, not true. I found this forum and read all the posts and educated myself about all the ins and outs of BMW deals. Armed with all of the good info from both members and sponsors, was ready to obtain the best deal I could, which I did.... I started offering advice, especially on MSD's. I also helped many people in Hawaii, directing them to Forum sponsors and how to ship their cars over here.

I feel BMW has changed and after my last lease ended, I figured I just don't drive enough miles to make a lease worthwhile. I went a different route and bought a pristine 06 Porsche Boxster S, it's nice not having a car payment.
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  #5  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:50 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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I am figuring that your question is a rhetorical one, 1968, but Ill bite a bit anyway.....

There never was a lot of the information you asked about in the first post here posted by DEALERS. Some of it, like order lists and such, was posted by jon or one of the other people running the site at that time. When the site was sold, that stopped happening. I dont believe the new owners of the site are interested in posting order lists, judging from the lack of them doing so.

Most of the other things you were talking about were provided by enthusiastic members here, helping other members. We always had the occasional dealer rep who participated in a round about way (like posting the max markup for the month and letting those of us who knew how it worked back into it for helping others). For some reason, when friendly dealers did that in an effort to skirt BMWs rules, they got accused of trying to rip people off, instead of what they were doing which was helping people.

As you said, BMW wants centers to deliver cars, ideally all at similar prices. The problem with that is, a generation of people "wanting a deal" have trained people that paying MSRP is "bad". A manufacturer selling all or (most) of their cars at MSRP brings other issues that they may mot be aware of... just take a look at a big tesla board to find out how that works out. People get upset if someone pays $100 less than they did, 2 months from when they bought it... because the manufacturer lowers the price for all cars and its all transparent. Turns out that a lot of people actually would prefer it NOT be transparent, at least by their reactions to price cuts 6 months after they buy their car.... ignoring the fact that every other car manufacturer cuts pricing all the time.

The reason this part of the forum is like it is, is less about CA participation, and more about long time members who used to provide a ton of help to other members no longer doing so, for one reason or another. I am just one of many who no longer do deal reviews, etc. I still read here, and sometimes post, but I dont review deals anymore.. with a few exceptions.

I havent seen much deal review here in this section in quite some time. I am a member on "the other forum" that @ibiza was mentioning, but was only briefly very active there. I used to like this forum better as it was less adversarial and aggressive. In general, now, there is simply just less traffic here. I still check here but feel less and less like posting. based on what I am noticing, I am not alone in this.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:03 AM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Hey gang, way back in 2001 when we launched this site, the "Ask-a-Dealer" forum was simply "Ask Jon" (me). For years I answered all buying questions myself, and later we added sponsors from other dealers who chimed in to help educate the buying public.

I retired from the BMW business in 2017 and we sold the site to Verticalscope.

I am pleased to announce that I am returning to the BMW world following a 3-year sabbatical, and will be managing Internet Sales to Bimmerfest Members for BMW of San Luis Obispo.

My goal is to bring it back to my roots, sharing with you all breaking news regarding sales and marketing as well as product information.

I have over thirty (30) years worth of experience in the automotive industry (most of it with BMW) and I look forward to meeting some of you newer members and seeing old friends here on Bimmerfest.com!
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:05 AM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
I am figuring that your question is a rhetorical one, 1968, but Ill bite a bit anyway.....

There never was a lot of the information you asked about in the first post here posted by DEALERS. Some of it, like order lists and such, was posted by jon or one of the other people running the site at that time. When the site was sold, that stopped happening. I dont believe the new owners of the site are interested in posting order lists, judging from the lack of them doing so.

No, no, no, for many years I/we answered every question posed. That is how the site gained traction and became such a valuable resource to BMW buyers in the USA and abroad.


I have big plans, things are gonna change...

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Old 09-16-2019, 11:08 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
Hey gang, way back in 2001 when we launched this site, the "Ask-a-Dealer" forum was simply "Ask Jon" (me). For years I answered all buying questions myself, and later we added sponsors from other dealers who chimed in to help educate the buying public.

I retired from the BMW business in 2017 and we sold the site to Verticalscope.

I am pleased to announce that I am returning to the BMW world following a 3-year sabbatical, and will be managing Internet Sales to Bimmerfest Members for BMW of San Luis Obispo.

My goal is to bring it back to my roots, sharing with you all breaking news regarding sales and marketing as well as product information.

I have over thirty (30) years worth of experience in the automotive industry (most of it with BMW) and I look forward to meeting some of you newer members and seeing old friends here on Bimmerfest.com!
This is welcome news indeed. So great to have you back, Jon.

You mean now we won't have to calculate Money Factors ourselves??? Woo hoo!!
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:20 AM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
This is welcome news indeed. So great to have you back, Jon.

You mean now we won't have to calculate Money Factors ourselves??? Woo hoo!!

Thank you! Things are a little different here now in 20 years later (I have be careful and walk a fine line), BUT... I will find a way to help everyone...

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Old 09-16-2019, 11:21 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Thank you! Things are a little different here now in 20 years later (I have be careful and walk a fine line), BUT... I will find a way to help everyone...

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  #11  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:34 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
No, no, no, for many years I/we answered every question posed. That is how the site gained traction and became such a valuable resource to BMW buyers in the USA and abroad.


I have big plans, things are gonna change...

Hi Jon,

I know who you are very well, welcome back! My comment was based on the time frame from when I joined the 'fest, which was 2013. Even then you and the site admins posted documents etc, but there was not a lot of posting of specific financial advice from dealers.

In any case, its good to see a familiar face here. Welcome back again, and glad you are doing better and ready to help people get into BMWs again!
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:27 PM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Hi Jon,

I know who you are very well, welcome back! My comment was based on the time frame from when I joined the 'fest, which was 2013. Even then you and the site admins posted documents etc, but there was not a lot of posting of specific financial advice from dealers.

In any case, its good to see a familiar face here. Welcome back again, and glad you are doing better and ready to help people get into BMWs again!

Thanks! I am here to give advice, so feel free to ask me anything...
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:28 AM
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Weaselboy Weaselboy is offline
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Great news and welcome back Jon!
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:14 AM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Great news and welcome back Jon!

Thank you!!
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:09 PM
jfai jfai is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
...
I am pleased to announce that I am returning to the BMW world following a 3-year sabbatical, and will be managing Internet Sales to Bimmerfest Members for BMW of San Luis Obispo.

My goal is to bring it back to my roots, sharing with you all breaking news regarding sales and marketing as well as product information.
...
Glad you're back, Jon - no pun intended
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:53 PM
Greg @ East Bay BMW Greg @ East Bay BMW is offline
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We're still here offering help if needed.

Last edited by Greg @ East Bay BMW; 09-24-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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