X5 diesel - don't hesitate and change that thermostat - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)

X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-27-2015, 12:36 AM
victor2k victor2k is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: E70 X5 35d
X5 diesel - don't hesitate and change that thermostat

So reading threads made me check how's my temperature doing in and of out of town. Canadian car, low to mid 80's around town, stuck to 81 on highway. I got it swapped, although no warnings, no light, no issues.

What a difference now. Engine gets to temp much faster, fuel economy at least a 1l down in the city - can confirm in about a week. Heater starts blasting right after a minute, although not that cold outside - about 5C in the mornings. The part itself is relatively cheap < $100, coolant needs to be flushed anyway(mine is 2011). Don't fall for water pump, these are mechanical. Also skip belts and pulleys just the thermostat. Worth the 2.5 hours labour I paid.

Plus you get a piece of mind of possible EGR and DPF issues
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 10-27-2015, 05:02 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,189
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Shortly after start-up, within a minute, the heater is electrical, about 1000 watts - on your battery. Your cautioning about the effects of the thermostat are well founded.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-27-2015, 05:21 AM
Kostyan Kostyan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Owings Mills, MD
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 385
Mein Auto: 12 X5 diesel, 04 330 CIC
how do you get temperature readings on your diesel? There is no temp gauge
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-27-2015, 05:31 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,189
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostyan View Post
how do you get temperature readings on your diesel? There is no temp gauge
The Hidden Dashboard menu or the various code-readers, particularly Carly for BMW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpcapital View Post
It's not that hard to use the hidden menu, but it's inconvenient since you'll have to do it ever time you turn the car off and on.

If you have an OBD reader that gives you live data you can certainly pull coolant temperature. DPF backpressure it's harder. In which case I'd recommend you get the BMWhat app with the Bluetooth dongle. I don't trust any of their coding feature, but the diagnostic of various parameter is useful.

If you do get the 480A or 481A codes the car will not start regen. My dad was getting about 60mbar of backpressure at idle and the code would reset immediately, that's why we had to resort to the punctured hose. That kept the car quiet for some time.

Another advantage of the BMWhat app is that it allows you to monitor EGT so you can go on a freeway drive after you replace the thermostat, set the cruise set and let the car purge the DPF: you want to drive on the freeway at constant speed for as long as you see EGT above 600. That's for the first time, obviously, after that, as long as the thermostat work, the car will do it by itself and you won't have to worry about it.

In any case: it is paramount that you figure out WHY the DPF got clogged as it does not clog up by itself. All my money are on the thermostat (in which case it's likely you may have some glow plugs code too). If you don't find out the WHY it WILL clog again.

Good luck and PLEASE REPORT BACK!!!!!!
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 10-27-2015 at 05:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-27-2015, 10:39 AM
gtomlja gtomlja is offline
Registered User
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: BMW X6 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor2k View Post
So reading threads made me check how's my temperature doing in and of out of town. Canadian car, low to mid 80's around town, stuck to 81 on highway. I got it swapped, although no warnings, no light, no issues.

What a difference now. Engine gets to temp much faster, fuel economy at least a 1l down in the city - can confirm in about a week. Heater starts blasting right after a minute, although not that cold outside - about 5C in the mornings. The part itself is relatively cheap < $100, coolant needs to be flushed anyway(mine is 2011). Don't fall for water pump, these are mechanical. Also skip belts and pulleys just the thermostat. Worth the 2.5 hours labour I paid.

Plus you get a piece of mind of possible EGR and DPF issues
Water pump is mechanical, but since thermostats and antifreeze are out, it is a good time to rotate pump by hand and feel/listen the bearing. Destroyed water pump while driving will make a lot of mess.

Also good to change both thermostats, main and EGR. Both are prone to fail and remain in open position.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:09 AM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtomlja View Post
Water pump is mechanical, but since thermostats and antifreeze are out, it is a good time to rotate pump by hand and feel/listen the bearing. Destroyed water pump while driving will make a lot of mess.

Also good to change both thermostats, main and EGR. Both are prone to fail and remain in open position.
I am going to pick up 35d probably tomorrow.
based on your experience, what would be good km's to preventively change both thermostat? Car that I am getting has 34k miles or 50,000km.
Pozdrav istri
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:26 AM
gtomlja gtomlja is offline
Registered User
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: BMW X6 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
I am going to pick up 35d probably tomorrow.
based on your experience, what would be good km's to preventively change both thermostat? Car that I am getting has 34k miles or 50,000km.
Pozdrav istri
Not sure about preventative changing, but you could monitor coolant temps few times per year and decide. Coolant temperature reading in OBC hidden menu is a great tool for thermostats failure diagnose. Anybody can do it easily. Turn on the car, set the coolant temp reading and drive. If temps are not getting to working range within few miles of normal driving (not uphill), one or both of thermostats are not closing fully.
Normal operating temp for M57 would be around 190-200 F. Also, in case your coolant temp is not going above 167 F, DPF regeneration will not start and will ultimately cause more problems.

Pozdrav!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:42 AM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtomlja View Post
Not sure about preventative changing, but you could monitor coolant temps few times per year and decide. Coolant temperature reading in OBC hidden menu is a great tool for thermostats failure diagnose. Anybody can do it easily. Turn on the car, set the coolant temp reading and drive. If temps are not getting to working range within few miles of normal driving (not uphill), one or both of thermostats are not closing fully.
Normal operating temp for M57 would be around 190-200 F. Also, in case your coolant temp is not going above 167 F, DPF regeneration will not start and will ultimately cause more problems.

Pozdrav!
Zahvaljujem.
I will probably get ScangaugeII or Garmin EcoRoute and have it permanently connected to OBD, so I can monitor temperature all the time, since I drive a lot on very high altitude and live on 6850ft.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-27-2015, 12:28 PM
Flying Ace Flying Ace is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco, California
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,973
Mein Auto: M6 GC ZCP; '12 X5 Diesel
just to summerize, the coolant temp needs to be between 190-200 F after warm up?
__________________
2014 F06 M6 (oil rig fire)
2012 E70 X5 diesel (oil burner)
2008 E90 M3 (oil distillates guzzler- Retired)
2013 bicycle (oily chain)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-27-2015, 01:48 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
just to summerize, the coolant temp needs to be between 190-200 F after warm up?
For huge majority of the cars that is operating temp.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2015, 07:08 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 616
Mein Auto: BMW X5 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
For huge majority of the cars that is operating temp.
In another post previously, it was stated the controlled value is around 87C. So the target temperature is 87C. I assumed a few degree C from that is normal. I asked that specific at that time. I am only at 85C when running normally.

So does that mean 87C really should be the low side or the average temperature?

190F = 87.8C.

I need to know to see if mine has a problem or not.
__________________
2012 BMW X5 Vermilion Red Xdrive35d with Premium Package, 3rd Row Seats, and Adaptive Drive



Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2015, 09:33 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrycyao View Post
In another post previously, it was stated the controlled value is around 87C. So the target temperature is 87C. I assumed a few degree C from that is normal. I asked that specific at that time. I am only at 85C when running normally.

So does that mean 87C really should be the low side or the average temperature?

190F = 87.8C.

I need to know to see if mine has a problem or not.
hmmm, well, I suppose to go to pick up 35d tomorrow, but it will be Thursday. Exact temp is on the list of questions for BMW mechanic in that dealership
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-28-2015, 06:14 AM
regdfry regdfry is offline
Registered User
Location: Northern Virginia
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 96
Mein Auto: 2011 X5 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrycyao View Post
In another post previously, it was stated the controlled value is around 87C. So the target temperature is 87C. I assumed a few degree C from that is normal. I asked that specific at that time. I am only at 85C when running normally.

So does that mean 87C really should be the low side or the average temperature?

190F = 87.8C.

I need to know to see if mine has a problem or not.
I drive a 2011 35d (4.5 yrs on the road with 49k miles) and have learned much about it by reading this forum on a regular basis. Several threads on the topic of temperature / thermostat / DPF regeneration, point to 88C as the normal operating temperature of the coolant thermostat. These threads point out that problems with regeneration occur when a vehicle's nominal operating temperature falls into the mid 70's, as the DDE (diesel control electronics) triggers active DPF regeneration only if the operating temperature is greater than 75C. It has been noted on this forum that as these thermostats age they exhibit a reduced operating temperature range.

Read this thread for more details: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...t=transmission

I believe you can anticipate normal operation of the vehicle if the thermostat is consistantly maintaining an operating temp over 75C. However, real world operating conditions are never ideal. So, you can be proactive by setting an artifical limit or trigger point at which you plan to change the thermostats (engine coolant and transmission fluid).

So, I have been using the vehicle's hidden menu to occassionally monitor the engine coolant temp during my longer drives. My last monitoring drive showed the temp range of 81-83C. Previous monitoring showed a range in the mid 80's. So, the thermostat is aging and trending towards maintaining an overall lower engine coolant temperature.

My plan is to take action and ALSO replace the thermostats at the next coolant flush / fill and not wait until the temp range drops into the 70's.
__________________
REGDFRY
- Native Virginian and DIY'er at heart
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-28-2015, 07:37 AM
gtomlja gtomlja is offline
Registered User
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: BMW X6 35d
Agree with above. Design temperature of main thermostat on M57 engine is 88C, that is engraved on thermostat itself. After replacing main and EGR thermostats my temp was in a range of 88C - 92C. When driving uphill it is going up to max 99-100 and downhill min 85C. These are temps on X6 35d 2009. with 140kkm after installing new thermostats and water pump.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-28-2015, 07:53 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,189
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
I do not believe that the E70 (2007 - 2013) has an EGR associated thermostat.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-28-2015, 08:03 AM
gtomlja gtomlja is offline
Registered User
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: BMW X6 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
I do not believe that the E70 (2007 - 2013) has an EGR associated thermostat.
You are most probably right, sorry guys. I know European M57 models produced up to 2010 have separate EGR cooler thermostat. Was not thinking that USA has different setup.
Even better, only main to replace.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-28-2015, 11:05 AM
lpcapital lpcapital is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,292
Send a message via AIM to lpcapital Send a message via MSN to lpcapital Send a message via Yahoo to lpcapital
Mein Auto: Wasp & Duc
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtomlja View Post
You are most probably right, sorry guys. I know European M57 models produced up to 2010 have separate EGR cooler thermostat. Was not thinking that USA has different setup.
Even better, only main to replace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
I do not believe that the E70 (2007 - 2013) has an EGR associated thermostat.
One thing I would suggest to folks who change their main thermostat is to also consider changing the one on the transmission heat exchanger. I have absolutely no evidence that it fails, other than the fact that BMW has challenges in properly designing cooling systems and that that thermostat looks very similar to the one used on the EGR of the euro models.

I didn't replace mine at the time I replaced the main thermostat.

I think I now have about 35K - 40K miles on the thermostat and is progressively getting weaker. It is still working right, but it definitely has a harder time keeping the engine warm that it did when new... I have a suspition that it would need to be replaced in the next 20K miles or so which is about when I replaced the original one. In other words: seems like what you buy now is just as weak as the original one.

On the other hand my dad goes through an EGR thermostat every 30K miles: that is definitely a great POS.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-11-2016, 04:11 PM
toledo_335i_6 toledo_335i_6 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Melbourne
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 169
Mein Auto: 2014 335i
Thanks to the many helpful folk here I had my main thermostat replaced (made little change but I'm still glad I did it) and replaced my EGR thermostat myself, which immediately saw my coolant temp jump to a much more steady range between 92-99 (mostly 95) degrees all the time (instead of low 70's, and even high 60's on a cold highway previously). So I'm delighted with that fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpcapital View Post
One thing I would suggest to folks who change their main thermostat is to also consider changing the one on the transmission heat exchanger.
I read this after the others were done! 3 questions:

1) What problems can occur if the transmission thermostat were to stick open, like my EGR thermostat had done?
2) Is there a way to monitor the transmission and/or thermostat thru an OBD/app to pick up any potential problems?
3) I've read other threads of other BMW models about the transmission thermostat where it's located under the expansion tank - and they themselves are also prone to failure. Is that the case with a 2007 X5 3.0d? Is there a history of problems with the expansion tank, should it be changed too, and is the transmission thermostat located under it?

Last edited by toledo_335i_6; 05-11-2016 at 04:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:41 AM
Joshs540i Joshs540i is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: 11 X5d, 03 M5, 98 540i/6
Hello all, long time BMW owner here, but just recently picked up a 2011 X5d. Sorry to revive a old thread but there is a lot of great info here.

Car was taking forever for emissions readiness indicators and some research brought me to check coolant temps. which were hanging around 70 and peaking at 75.

Also started throwing an intermittent glow plug 5 error that would trigger and clear CEL.

I tackled the thermostat last night, took about 3 hours, drained as much coolant as a I could using the 2 connections at the bottom passenger side - 1 going to trans cooler stat and the other right below the trans cooler

I was able to get a vacuum fill on it using loaner tools from Advance auto parts and a vacuum pump out of the central lock system of a old Benz I had lying around. it took about 1 liter less than 2 gallons.

after completing the job I idled for about 20 mins while cleaning up to bleed the system - took about 0.5l more to keep it at max. then I took it for a 30 min drive.

Coolant temps would hover around 80 now - going as low as 75 downhill and peaking at 84. Ambient temps around 65F.
This still seems too low based on what I have read.

Can the trans cooler stat cause low engine temps? I couldn't find much on this topic. or answers to AU Pete's questions above.

Perhaps my new stat is DOA? it is a Mahle.

What is the bare minimum temp for normal operations? I read that the glow plugs will run below 76. are there any adverse effects above that?

Thanks for the help, other than this problem I am super happy with the car.

Last edited by Joshs540i; 10-11-2018 at 08:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:52 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Reno NV & Healdsburg CA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,161
Mein Auto: 4 BMWs, 1 Mini, 1 Vespa
Seems temp is low. Should be 88. You should still be fine in the 80s but I suspect you got a bad part.


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:26 AM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Is it BMW thermostat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:18 PM
Joshs540i Joshs540i is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: 11 X5d, 03 M5, 98 540i/6
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Seems temp is low. Should be 88. You should still be fine in the 80s but I suspect you got a bad part.


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
That's what I feared, would hate to have to do the job all over again

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Is it BMW thermostat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is Mahle, who claim to be the OE supplier.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:32 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,732
Mein Auto: 328i xDrive 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshs540i View Post
That's what I feared, would hate to have to do the job all over again







It is Mahle, who claim to be the OE supplier.


Yes Mahle is supplier. Canít say that is the reason. When I changed I used BMW and worked as intended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:14 PM
Joshs540i Joshs540i is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: 11 X5d, 03 M5, 98 540i/6
I spoke with Mahle and they are sending me a replacement stat. not looking forward to doing the job again.

Any opinions on doing the trans stat while I have it drained down again?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,189
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshs540i View Post
I spoke with Mahle and they are sending me a replacement stat. not looking forward to doing the job again.

Any opinions on doing the trans stat while I have it drained down again?
I don't believe that there has been a failure, reported here reported here in any case.

Do you know where it is?

N62TU / N52K / N54 / M57T2

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-parts/Q9YP3sl
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.