2003 325i (M56) Crank/no spk/no fuel to inj. - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-18-2019, 03:15 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
2003 325i M56 SULEV, 166K. Sat 1.5 yrs.
Started and ran with bad gas.
Purged bad gas.

NOW:
Engine cranks strong.
No spark and no fuel at inj.
Fuel pressure present at rail.
All 6 plugs n coils repl.
Pulled two ECU fuses. Left out a few minutes. Put back in, no change.

Will this ECU cut spark and fuel if a ckp is bad or the signal does not get to the ECU?

The nasty complication:
fuse box in the glove compartment has corrosion everywhere from leak.

The owner worked to remove the fuse box so that we could clean it . The fuse box got rattled around a lot but is still attached to the car.. It has run with this nasty one in place so pretty sure it can again.
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Could this be an issue of having tripped security on the vehicle? I have no idea how security on a BMW works.
-----+
Cannot read codes from diag port; my dongle connects to my phone but the ECM does not respond.
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What are the exact conditions in which fuel will be inhibited ? Likewise what are the situations in which spark will be inhibited?
-------

Really hoping this is not a DME issue.

How do you troubleshoot security and how do you diag a DME

Thanks in advance.

Derf

Last edited by Derfderf; 11-19-2019 at 04:45 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:46 AM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
Found the Wiki--trying a hard reset.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2019, 01:55 PM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
2003 325i M56 SULEV, 166K. Sat 1.5 yrs.
Started and ran with bad gas.
Purged bad gas.

Will this ECU cut spark and fuel if a ckp is bad or the signal does not get to the ECU?

Derf
Not sure what mean by started and ran with purged bad gas ?
I am assuming "ckp" is coil pack, if yes then the ECU will cut fuel to the cylinder(s) with a bad coilpack(s).

As for your other issue with the corroded fuse box, I would get it swapped out asap as you ultimately dont want the ECU getting shorted out. The fuse box will cause all sorts of issues if water gets to it and travels down the wires.

Seems you already found the problem and that's the fuse box as it contains the fuse and relay for the fuel pump and ignition. If you can get as far as disabling the alarm/immobilizer and cranking the engine, then can't see a security issue. Sounds like a DME/ECU issue, wiring bad connection more likely.

Is the RPM needle moving when you crank the engine ?

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-19-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:39 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
Thanks for your reply.

CKP is the standard abbreviation for crank position sensor (according to my professional mechanic friend)

The vehicle ran with the bad gas already in the tank from sitting in impound.

After that, I disconnected the fuel line at the connector directly in front of the fuel tank. We then proceeded to cycle the ignition from off to on (no, not crank) every 45 seconds to get a full prime from the fuel pump, thus purging the bad gas using the fuel pump itself.

The fuel pump relay appears fine as the fuel pump runs or at least primes and there is fuel pressure at the rail.

The ignition is seemingly functional at least with respect to engaging the starter. To your point, it may not be triggering the ignition system itself.

I know there are many many individual circuits inside the DME. Seems weird for it to be suddenly dysfunctional in such a specific way unless it is a pre-programmed inhibition of spark and fuel.
Gut feeling anyway. But then again, the fuse box situation opens the door to just about anything.

And I don't know anything about BMWs which is why I am here and accepting and following all advice.

Thank you for ruling out security.

Last edited by Derfderf; 11-19-2019 at 02:40 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:55 PM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
Thanks for your reply.

CKP is the standard abbreviation for crank position sensor (according to my professional mechanic friend)
I've always understood it to be CPS but each to their own, makes not much difference.

Yes CKP can inhibit ignition as it the firing is controlled by that signal. That's why I asked if the RPM needle was moving when you cranked the engine. IF the RPM needle hovers around 200 RPM when cranking then the signal is at least being processed by the ECU. The does not rule out bad timing though which can also prevent a start.

The long standing fuel is unlikely to be a an issue, you would at least get a couple of splutters if was really bad.

Get a decent BMW scanner before stripping out parts, your cheap scanner my not be suitable for that engine.

For long standing engines I always add a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder to increase the compression and line the bores.
Try it, you have nothing to lose. Ignore the smoke if you get it started, should clear up if engine is good.

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-19-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:47 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
Sorry,

Forgot to mention I don't know right now how the tach behaves during cranking as the car belongs to a friend and is in his driveway.

Compression (cold WOT) 190 to 200 across all cyls.

Car did run on bad gas with misfires on 3 cyls in addition to the p0171 and p0174 codes. Just reading straight OBDII with an OBDlink MX+ Scanner and Car Diagnostics Pro. That program is sick for American vehicles with Toyota an Nissan enhanced support recently added.

I read codes using multiple OBDII programs when the vehicle ran.

Now my Bluetooth dongle connects with my diag programs but the ECU is unresponsive.

I know I cannot access the BMW specific PIDs with what I am running. Is there an Android program out there that works?

I'll get an answer to the cranking tach question tonight.

Thanks again.

Last edited by Derfderf; 11-19-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:35 PM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
Sorry,

Forgot to mention I don't know right now how the tach behaves during cranking as the car belongs to a friend and is in his driveway.

Compression (cold WOT) 190 to 200 across all cyls.

Car did run on bad gas with misfires on 3 cyls in addition to the p0171 and p0174 codes. Just reading straight OBDII with an OBDlink MX+ Scanner and Car Diagnostics Pro. That program is sick for American vehicles with Toyota an Nissan enhanced support recently added.

I read codes using multiple OBDII programs when the vehicle ran.

Now my Bluetooth dongle connects with my diag programs but the ECU is unresponsive.

I know I cannot access the BMW specific PIDs with what I am running. Is there an Android program out there that works?

I'll get an answer to the cranking tach question tonight.

Thanks again.
Forget bluetooth readers until you can establish a decent connection and get some decent readings from a cable reader. you dont want Bluetooth connection issues muddying your vehicle diagnosis.

Yeah, get the cranking RPM checked to check CPS and ECU signal is good. All that cranking can foul the plugs, check they are not wet and over fuelled, clean and dry them in low heated oven for an hour if so.

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-19-2019 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:00 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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I don't quite see how Bluetooth vs cabled makes a difference for straight OBDII. I have never failed to connect and remain connected to any vehicle I've used it on. The OBDlink MX series are exceptionally stable. 98% of people with issues buy a fake cloned Chinese made dongle with the wrong ELM version for $9.99, then whine when it doesn't work, even though all the writers of the apps specifically warn people not to use the cheap Chinese adapters. Enough about that. Stable connection before, will get stable connection again when problem solved. I do have a generic OBDII wired reader (not scanner) that I will throw on there per your advice.

I have not fully investigated the site or the wiki but I'm in the process. Do the manuals posted include wiring diagrams? Also oh, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but is the Chilton manual for the BMW 3 series useful for anything? Even if only for wiring diagrams? I really just don't like trying to troubleshoot electrical issues without a wiring diagram. I can do it on cars I know or that are similar to other cars I have worked on, and eventually I could solve it on this one but that would take me an extra two months just to figure out what all the modules were, etc. I certainly intend to learn it, but in a smarter way than that.

Replacement fuse box for the in 56 will be on order tomorrow. Probably with fresh fuses as most show corrosion along with the slots they sit in.

Hoping to quickly restore operation to the power windows so that we can put the rear left window up. I suppose I could run 12 volts straight to the motor if I took the door panel off....

I will also search for a d i y on clearing sunroof drains as I believe that is the source of the water leak which damaged the fuse box.

Last edited by Derfderf; 11-19-2019 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:07 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
Does the fact that the vehicle cranks indicate that the BMW equivalent of a body control module is functioning properly or at least partially properly?

Other cars I have worked on have the security embedded in the BCM which talks to the ignition and the ECU. This is why I asked the question about security. I wanted to be sure that the no start no spark no fuel condition was not a direct result of security thinking it was tripped and inhibiting the activation of the injectors and the ignition circuits.

Also, plugs are dry as there is zero fuel getting through the injectors.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:45 AM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
Does the fact that the vehicle cranks indicate that the BMW equivalent of a body control module is functioning properly or at least partially properly?

Other cars I have worked on have the security embedded in the BCM which talks to the ignition and the ECU. This is why I asked the question about security. I wanted to be sure that the no start no spark no fuel condition was not a direct result of security thinking it was tripped and inhibiting the activation of the injectors and the ignition circuits.

Also, plugs are dry as there is zero fuel getting through the injectors.
Bluetooth is fine for OBD readers, just wanted to take out any possible connection issues with the softare drivers or communication errors. A cable connection is much more reliable as there is no software interferring with the data transfer to/from from the ECU, it's direct hardware link and how it was designed to be used. Any professional auto-tech knows this and even the most expensive scanners use cable connections. Sure its fine for torque readings on your android mobile, but I personally will only use a wired connection for ECU communications on all vehicles I work on. I'm just an old-skool kind of guy though

I would say the security is not likely to be an issue but as you have had water in one of the BCM's then this could still be a possibility. Is the immobilizer light turning off after ignition 2 ?

I've seen issues in the past with BCM's being damaged so bad by water ingress that it affects the steering lock module, which in turn can prevent a start of the engine due to security and safety checks. Also, if it's an auto could also be a gear selector/lock switch issue, enigne is immobilized unless in P position which I guess you already know.

If you have good pressure in the fuel rails but injectors not firing, then sounds like the ECU is not getting a signal from the crank sensor.
A fault with the CPS signal would normally throw a code. The ECU controls the signals for the injectors and it would be highly unlikely for all injectors to fail.

For maunals I use TIS: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/
It's not supported on anything other than Windows XP, but I think it's been updated now to support modern browsers.

At the moment you are just taking pot luck shots at the possible cause of the problem, without a decent reading from the ECU you/we can't really establish if it's electrical or mechanical fault.

A DIY for your water drain issue is a long piece of stiff but bendable wire together with some hot soapy water. Pour the water down each drain hole then start pushing the wire down the channels until all the gunk falls from below the vehicle.

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-20-2019 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 11-20-2019, 06:15 AM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Mein Auto:
Thanks again for your response. I'm not here to argue about anyting. I see the merits of your approach and as mentioned will hook up my wired OBD2 code reader.

I also agree that at this moment, without codes, we are indeed hypothesizing about what the issue could be.

What I don't have at this point point in time is an understanding of what components might ultimately hinder or inhibit spark and fuel. You have mentioned quite a few, and until I can digest the array of intertwined security checks, interlock checks, ckp signal, etc., I am indeed the shooting in the dark besides the obvious issues with the fuse panel. I will definitely investigate the resource you have provided.

All this is somewhat ironic, as I am a moderator for a smaller Saturn forum. 14 years and running. I specialize in the S series, the first made by Saturn. I know pretty much all of the things to check on that car to diagnose this problem. A good part of that knowledge transfers to other vehicles, but obviously they are not the same, and it is the fine details, in this case what are all of the things that must be correctly operating in order to successfully start the vehicle, that I must understand. So I am the guy on the other side of the fence, seeking information as opposed to providing informed advice.

I still don't have answers regarding RPM readings while cranking, whether a hard reset was attempted.

I will look up the owner's manual for a description of the indicator lights on the cluster and get back to you about the security light.

If there is one thing I have learned in 14 years as a mod, it is that shotgunning parts is futile. Even if you do manage to fix the issue, you've made multiple changes at once and will never know what the actual problem was. Besides the required replacement of the fuse box, I'm not throwing parts at the vehicle.

Again I truly appreciate the transfer of knowledge.

It may take me until the weekend to investigate all of what we have discussed, but I will return. Lack of closure on threads drives me insane as a moderator, and is fundamentally rude at best and deprives who knows how many people with the identical issue the last piece of the puzzle.

Last edited by Derfderf; 11-20-2019 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:24 AM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
I also agree that at this moment, without codes, we are indeed hypothesizing about what the issue could be.

What I don't have at this point point in time is an understanding of what components might ultimately hinder or inhibit spark and fuel.

All this is somewhat ironic, as I am a moderator for a smaller Saturn forum.
I'm not familair with the Saturn, is that an american manufacturer ? I'm a Renault specialist and the electronics in some of those vehicles is far more advanced, theres an electronic module connected to almost everything on those vehicles.

Yes I agree, without the ECU scan it is a "what is the most likely?" situtation. I'm from the pre-OBD era also when engines were much more easier to work on and repairs were pretty much straight forward.

The inhibition of a spark or correct spark timing order is controlled by the ECU and combination of CPS and CTS. So if you have checked for a regaulr cranking spark using whatever tool you use then start by looking into the cause of ignition related problems. But you defo want to get that fuse box swapped out and check all ignition/fuel fuses and relays. The BMW uses a DME module which is just another type of BCM found in other vehicles.

If you are unable to estabish communication with the ECU then your next step is to start checking relays and wiring to/from the ECU and DME. If you can find a decent pinout for your ECU then you can start the long process of scoping and checking voltage levels. Assuming you have checked the OBD port fuse and signals are being transmitted.

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-20-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:34 AM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Saturn was GM's experiment in recreating a division from scratch. initially they were a distributorship and not officially part of GM.

the entire vehicle was designed from scratch and shared no parts with any other GM vehicle. They became unexpectedly popular in the early and mid 90s as the S cars where 1.9 l had plastic bodies except for Hood roof and trunk lid, and got 35 on the highway with the air on. Everyone paid the same price.

I have over half a million miles on my two Saturns combined.

Anyway, the short summary is that Saturn was becoming competition to GM's existing divisions. Rather than embrace the popularity of the S car and develop and refine it moving forward, GM absorbed it as a division and purposely murdered it with mediocre other offerings.

My DD is an Audi A3 except on the days when it's not. You will have to pry my 97 Saturn SC2 out from under my dead fingernails. It's got 124 horsepower, decent handling for what it is, and is geared very low so it feels as though you are truly accelerating from a stop. In fact, you are, but everyone else is accelerating at twice the rate. It's still fun. And they are simple to work on. With proper maintenance, might have only gone through the consumables over the years. Motor mounts struts brakes radiator water pump, alternator, trailing arms, control arms ball joints blah blah blah. The CVs and wheel bearings are all original at 265 k.

My automotive knowledge started in the carburetor area then paused for about 20 years, and now I do as much of my work as I can. Only one person has ever cracked PCM and he never shared with a soul so if you want to slap a turbo on it which people did back in the day it was all stand alone control piggybacked.

Back to the 325i.
I suspect the issue lies in the fuse box. We will find out rather quickly when the new one arrives. My buddy won't want to but it will make him buy new fuses. The ones currently in there all have corrosion on them and I'm not in the mood to sand only to have them oxidized afterwards.

I thought the DME was the BMW equivalent of the ECU but you refer to it as the equivalent of a BCM. So in that respect, the DME seems to be operating quite similar to the Saturn BCM with respect to its role in inhibiting spark and fuel if conditions are not satisfactory or if it is not functioning properly or at all. Like I said before, they're all exactly the same except different
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:16 PM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
Saturn was GM's experiment in recreating a division from scratch. initially they were a distributorship and not officially part of GM....
Thanks for all the info, I'm now a qualified Saturn engineer

My lat DD's are a Renault Lagune VVT V6 with close to 250bhp and a BMW M-Sport straight 6 with 270bhp both cars cheap to buy but super expensive to repair (through the manufacturer route). Both were purchased ready for the scrap yard but I got em back on the road, seemed a waster for such nice luxery top end sports cars.

Yes, you are correct about the DME being a middle module for the anti-theft system. But it is a seperate module from the ECU and is also programmed to the ECU so you cant plug-and-play with them.

Theres a good write up here about how it works.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart..._Replacing.htm

I just sometimes refer to the ECU in a collective term as it is the heart of all the communications in the vehicle, just some work is offloaded to the DME and other modules. If you have the experience with micro-soldering you can actually replace the DME logic from one module to another. I've successfully done this with Renault BCM's but it's not for the faint hearted. The original BCM was badly water damaged and a reprogram from Renault was out of the question so the logic chip was swapped over to a donor BCM. Only problem next was the steering lock module also being programmed to the ECU, but a quick swap of circuit boards fixed that. also swapped out the main fuse box also, as this was dripping with water from a sunroof drain pipe failure. So the complete failure of the electronics started from the fuse box which in turn got to the BCM and finally shorted out the steering locking solenoid. So the symptoms were pretty much as yours but I knew from the start that the immobilizer was culprit. Took me a good few days to fix that one. But I goota say the security systems on these vehicles is pretty much bullet proof compared to systems I've worked on since the mid 90's.

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-20-2019 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:30 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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OK........

Hard reset did not work.
Tach reads 0 when cranking --> CKP bad/not connected, DME not getting power, DME damaged ECU not getting power

I have decided on a two-pronged approach:

1) dig like h to find the bad connection -- likely a power or ground --for the DVE or ECU with current fuse box in place to ensure vehicle runs (no ECU DME damage etc) before swapping fuse box
2) Order a replacement fuse box and install, regardless of where I am in the process of 1 anyway -- it $50 MAX and a mess of wasted time if there is damage.

Parts Questions

Nothing in life is ever straightforward.

I see on ebay
1)a Front Power Distribution Fuse Relay Panel
VIN traces back to 2003 325i M56
Listed as BMW part # 8364542

I find Bimmiercat online

Electrical diagram of fuse box shows 8364542 is actually 61138364542
61138364542 is the part number for the COVER, not the entire fuse box assembly. Guess it's the only number visible to sellers on Ebay......

This is a match, yes?
-------------------
Another listing references 8364542
The VIN traces back to a 2004 325ci M56
Part number is listed as 8387153 again the number for the cover

This is also a match, yes?
------------------

I also came across a messed up listing that vin traced to a 2002 325i M54; bimmercat again indicates the same part numbers

-----------------------

It makes sense that the M56's match across diff years.
Do the M54 fuse boxes match the m56 fuse boxes in the same generation?
Asking b c I want to cast as wide a net as possible while searching.

---------

How does BMW build its fuse panels? Is there a lower section where the distribution to the car's components takes place with a fuse lead to +V and a fuse lead down to each distribution point?
Trying to figure out how to replace, since technically all I need are replacement contacts for the fuses to sit in.

The problem being, of course, that I am buying a fuse box with 300 cut leads sticking out of it, and frankly, I'd prefer not to have to make that many connections.......
I suppose if it is the path of least resistance I'll take it, but......I'll have to practice up on my soldering skills
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:22 PM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Ouch, don't sound good. Maybe it's better to find a non runner and swap the electrical parts over to your vehicle. May work out cheaper to find another vehicle for breaking.
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:48 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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A junkyard fuse box is the same as one from a non runner, unless you mean to swap ALL the electronics over to this car...... DME, fuseboxes, wiring harness, etc so that it all remains connected.

Are you able to answer my question regarding how the power distribution fuse box is interfaced to all of those wires? I don't want to rip apart the existing one just to find out so if I am to clean it it would be easier disassembled
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:05 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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I'm a bit confused about not being able to swap a used DME into a vehicle other than the one it originated from. It has long been a standard practice for many manufacturers to be able to reflash such devices. The key being the manufacturer is the only entity that has the hardware and software to do so.

For the sake of example, Saturn's use PCMS that can be reflashed by the dealer to match the exact options on your car. Other applications involve marrying a body control module to an instrument cluster in order for the odometer to function.

If you think about it, BMW have to flash it once to get the program that is on there now. Unless they are using and programming read-only memory just the one time, I would think they could reflash it to another Vin with another program specific to that win and car options.

For the sake of discussion, assume the above is true. Then The $64,000 question is whether BMW will actually do it. They stand to make much more money charging you to put in four or five expensive components and charge you a lot of labor. but is it all driven by the different pieces being being matched to each other or do they flash it 2 match your VIN? That is what they did when they built the car. For example with Saturn bcms, the dealer will not touch a used BCM that you bring in unless you can positively prove the mileage at BCM failure. Which is ironic because atypical PCM failure set the mileage to about 600,000 miles

Anyway my point is is the actual programming process known and is BMW just holding out for more money?
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:20 PM
McLarenBMW McLarenBMW is offline
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Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
I'm a bit confused about not being able to swap a used DME into a vehicle other than the one it originated from. It has long been a standard practice for many manufacturers to be able to reflash such devices. The key being the manufacturer is the only entity that has the hardware and software to do so.

For the sake of example, Saturn's use PCMS that can be reflashed by the dealer to match the exact options on your car. Other applications involve marrying a body control module to an instrument cluster in order for the odometer to function.

If you think about it, BMW have to flash it once to get the program that is on there now. Unless they are using and programming read-only memory just the one time, I would think they could reflash it to another Vin with another program specific to that win and car options.

For the sake of discussion, assume the above is true. Then The $64,000 question is whether BMW will actually do it. They stand to make much more money charging you to put in four or five expensive components and charge you a lot of labor. but is it all driven by the different pieces being being matched to each other or do they flash it 2 match your VIN? That is what they did when they built the car. For example with Saturn bcms, the dealer will not touch a used BCM that you bring in unless you can positively prove the mileage at BCM failure. Which is ironic because atypical PCM failure set the mileage to about 600,000 miles

Anyway my point is is the actual programming process known and is BMW just holding out for more money?
I dont know if this will help in your situation but I'll just throw it out there. For a car to start it needs correct:
Fuel
Air
Compression
Timing
Spark

If all those are good then I would look at sensors to be the culprit or perhaps carbon deposits jamming the pistons, flooded engine etc

Last edited by McLarenBMW; 11-24-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:21 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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I have all but fuel at inj (fuel at rail ok) and spark. Compr 195 ish cold WOT.

Scan tool that previously connected to ECU no longer communicates.

See above for details

Thx
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:41 AM
McLarenBMW McLarenBMW is offline
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I have all but fuel at inj (fuel at rail ok) and spark. Compr 195 ish cold WOT.

Scan tool that previously connected to ECU no longer communicates.

See above for details

Thx
None of the injectors are shooting gas? Perhaps the ECU isn't sending the signal to the injectors, I doubt all 6 injectors can fail at the same time lol
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  #22  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:06 AM
Fasil Baulty Fasil Baulty is offline
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Mein Auto:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
OK........

Hard reset did not work.
Tach reads 0 when cranking --> CKP bad/not connected, DME not getting power, DME damaged ECU not getting power

I have decided on a two-pronged approach:

1) dig like h to find the bad connection -- likely a power or ground --for the DVE or ECU with current fuse box in place to ensure vehicle runs (no ECU DME damage etc) before swapping fuse box
2) Order a replacement fuse box and install, regardless of where I am in the process of 1 anyway -- it $50 MAX and a mess of wasted time if there is damage.

Parts Questions

Nothing in life is ever straightforward.

I see on ebay
1)a Front Power Distribution Fuse Relay Panel
VIN traces back to 2003 325i M56
Listed as BMW part # 8364542

I find Bimmiercat online

Electrical diagram of fuse box shows 8364542 is actually 61138364542
61138364542 is the part number for the COVER, not the entire fuse box assembly. Guess it's the only number visible to sellers on Ebay......

This is a match, yes?
-------------------
Another listing references 8364542
The VIN traces back to a 2004 325ci M56
Part number is listed as 8387153 again the number for the cover

This is also a match, yes?
------------------

I also came across a messed up listing that vin traced to a 2002 325i M54; bimmercat again indicates the same part numbers

-----------------------

It makes sense that the M56's match across diff years.
Do the M54 fuse boxes match the m56 fuse boxes in the same generation?
Asking b c I want to cast as wide a net as possible while searching.

---------

How does BMW build its fuse panels? Is there a lower section where the distribution to the car's components takes place with a fuse lead to +V and a fuse lead down to each distribution point?
Trying to figure out how to replace, since technically all I need are replacement contacts for the fuses to sit in.

The problem being, of course, that I am buying a fuse box with 300 cut leads sticking out of it, and frankly, I'd prefer not to have to make that many connections.......
I suppose if it is the path of least resistance I'll take it, but......I'll have to practice up on my soldering skills
If the DME is not getting power, I'd say find out why. Is it a 12 v feed?
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:39 AM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW, RENAULT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfderf View Post
A junkyard fuse box is the same as one from a non runner, unless you mean to swap ALL the electronics over to this car...... DME, fuseboxes, wiring harness, etc so that it all remains connected.

Are you able to answer my question regarding how the power distribution fuse box is interfaced to all of those wires? I don't want to rip apart the existing one just to find out so if I am to clean it it would be easier disassembled
Yes it's possible to swap out the FUSE Panels, DME, TCM and ECU from a donor vehicle. That's basically the same procedure as an engine swap. If you just want to swap out the DME then you would require a specialist to re-program if yours is programmed to the ECU. Not all are, depends on the year.

Not sure how your fusebox is wired. Found this on ebay for photos:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362753220475

The first thing I would be doing in this situation is at least pulling out the fuse box and checking all ignition related connections with a mulltimeter/probe. Have you actually checked the OBD fuse and probed the CAN bus signal levels (1.2V Low and 3.5V High) ?

You should be taking out the fuse panel if its been exposed to water, leaving it in on the assumption that it worked before is not an approach I would take. Especially since
you say the vehicle has been sat for over a year!

Last edited by bimmerrimmer; 11-25-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:04 PM
Derfderf Derfderf is offline
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Posts: 31
Mein Auto:
Thank you for the feedback.

All I meant was before I go and solder 300 connections while replacing the fuse box, I would love to hear it start as that would confirm all systems go as far as the computer is concerned. All systems go for basic functioning that is.

Since I don't want to solder 300 connections, that is why I asked how the fuse boxes are constructed.

If there is a bottom plate that all of the wires are attached to, going out to the individual circuits, if that part is not bad with respect to water damage, then I can leave it in place and just replace the upper and lower fuse racks. I believe their relays are okay but don't quote me.

Could somebody please confirm for me 2003 m54 fuse boxes are identical 2003 and 56 fuse boxes?

Also, is there a DIY for removing the fuse box from this series of E46? I have not yet looked.

As the car is not in my driveway, I do not have the luxury of running out and testing voltages. I have a layout of the fuses. Have I gone through and checked what I need to now that I have a better idea of what is likely wrong? Of course not. We all work for a living and so does the guy who owns the car.

Where may I find a pinout for the dme? I can look at which pins are in the diag connector and figure out which pins are the canbus pins. The diag port has power acid powers my bluetooth reader so I am not thinking the fuse to that is an issue. Also, does anyone know where I can get a hold of the pinout or terminal layout for the ECU so that I may determine what is and what is not getting voltage. I mean current.

With reference to the inability to start, am I looking at the dme or the actual ECU? Or both?

Please remember this is my first BMW I am working on. Besides the internet, I have absolutely no documentation of any kind, so checking 12 volts at the ECU may take you 30 seconds, but it may take me five minutes to figure out where the ECU is.

If I get a manual, the guy cannot afford a service manual oh, so which one should I get that would have all the wiring diagrams, fuse box layout, ECU location and layout, DME , and all the other modules I do not know exist but need to.?


Thanks

D
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  #25  
Old 11-26-2019, 01:34 AM
bimmerrimmer bimmerrimmer is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW, RENAULT
I posted a link to the online TIS manual for your vehicle below, all pin-outs and locations are in there. Also have a look at the MS4X wiki for ECU and DME pinouts:
https://www.ms4x.net/index.php?title...ns_MS43_Pinout

All the info you need is a short google away and you only need to check the ignition related stuff in the fuse box. At the back of the fuse box are more relays and fuses.
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