Synth etic Oil Brand - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)

E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 02-17-2016, 11:21 AM
cvx5832 cvx5832 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,249
Mein Auto: 325Ci, 325Cic, C300
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeZi View Post
i just bought some mobil1 0w40, it no longer have "BMW LL01 approved" printed on the bottle.
Pictures would help.
__________________






Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #27  
Old 02-17-2016, 03:44 PM
chatcher chatcher is offline
bmw addict
Location: pa
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,342
Mein Auto: e46 m3
It's so easy to just have the proper oil and filter shipped from places like Tischer or Bavauto I really don't get why you guys spend all this time running around trying to find something different. When I need to change the oil in any of my BMW's I just have everything I need shipped right to me. So easy why bother mucking about and really any reason to not have to go to Walmart is fine by me.
__________________

current rides:
09 ZR1
15 X5 50i
03 350z
13 E88 135i
15 RR sport
03 rc51
08 F450 Dually
17 ram 2500
RUNNING OUT OF GARAGE SPACE!!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-17-2016, 05:11 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9,186
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chatcher View Post
It's so easy to just have the proper oil and filter shipped from places like Tischer or Bavauto I really don't get why you guys spend all this time running around trying to find something different. When I need to change the oil in any of my BMW's I just have everything I need shipped right to me. So easy why bother mucking about and really any reason to not have to go to Walmart is fine by me.
The stuff is cheap at Walmart, and you get to see Walmartians.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #29  
Old 02-17-2016, 06:26 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeZi View Post
i just bought some mobil1 0w40, it no longer have "BMW LL01 approved" printed on the bottle.
It does on the web site
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-18-2016, 06:13 PM
dudeZi dudeZi is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: E70 50i
Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-18 20.04.19.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	104.2 KB
ID:	551403

Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-18 20.04.46.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	132.7 KB
ID:	551404

the bottle on the left is new which I just purchased from Walmark, on the right was purchased about a year ago.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-18-2016, 08:59 PM
ShadowDriver ShadowDriver is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 2003 BMW 325XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeZi View Post
Attachment 551403

Attachment 551404

the bottle on the left is new which I just purchased from Walmark, on the right was purchased about a year ago.
Whoa! You weren't kidding! Good thing this came up. I was just about to go buy some of that oil and never would have noticed.

Even then though: It is still the same oil it was, right? So shouldn't it still work just the same? I think that warrants further research. And I think I need a new oil supplier.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-18-2016, 09:22 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 42,450
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDriver View Post
Whoa! You weren't kidding! Good thing this came up. I was just about to go buy some of that oil and never would have noticed.

Even then though: It is still the same oil it was, right? So shouldn't it still work just the same? I think that warrants further research. And I think I need a new oil supplier.
If you make a habit of changing your oil & filter at sane intervals like most folks around here (i.e., around 7500 miles), I wouldn`t lose any sleep over this issue....it`s not like they deleted something that`s gonna make your engine self-destruct....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Disabled American Veterans*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-18-2016, 10:13 PM
ShadowDriver ShadowDriver is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 2003 BMW 325XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
If you make a habit of changing your oil & filter at sane intervals like most folks around here (i.e., around 7500 miles), I wouldn`t lose any sleep over this issue....it`s not like they deleted something that`s gonna make your engine self-destruct....
Yeah that is true and I am not particularly worried about it. It just strikes me as odd that they would remove the rating from the back and completely take BMW off the front of the oil jug. Like what happened there? LL-01 specs haven't changed, have they? Did they decide not to support BMW or something? Its something I feel I will look into when I get the time.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-19-2016, 06:26 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9,186
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
....it`s not like they deleted something that`s gonna make your engine self-destruct....
Actually, that's exactly what I suspect. If they've gone to the trouble of printing new labels, then something's going on.

Exxon/Mobil (and BP) were very late to improve their quality of gasoline to meet Top Tier standards (established by Toyota, Honda, BMW, M-B, VW, GM). Mobil always had a good reputation for fuels and lubricants. Exxon, not so much.

Stay tuned.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-19-2016, 11:58 AM
Zeichen311's Avatar
Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
Lost but making good time
Location: Here, there, or in transit
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,150
Mein Auto: '11 335xi 4dr; '03 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
Actually, that's exactly what I suspect. If they've gone to the trouble of printing new labels, then something's going on.
Two things have recently changed--one technical, one political--that could explain it. Neither would have me worrying about the product.

1. The LL-01 spec is obsolete. BMW recently published an updated long-life specification for newer models (LL-14, I think). Mobil has probably not yet reformulated, or at least tested, their product for compliance with the new standard. So, the smart (lawsuit-proof ) move would be to remove the blanket "approved for BMW" labeling altogether until they do, if it is not true for all BMWs. Stating that it meets some specs, not others, and is approved for older BMWs, not newer ones, would be a potential headache and probably do more harm than good.

2. BMW recently changed their oil supplier/marketing partner from Castrol to Shell. Perhaps that change is making life difficult for Mobil in some way (access to the specifications? legal weirdness? ).

Either way, I would not hesitate to continue using Mobil 1 0W40 (if I did use it) in either of my cars. In all likelihood, it still meets the older specification and this is just a temporary change in labeling.
__________________
2011 335xi Individual 6MT - Azurite Black Metallic / Oyster & Black / Anthracite Maple + all the good stuff
2003 330Ci Sport 5MT - Black Sapphire Metallic / Natural Brown / Myrtle + the important stuff (+ go-fast stuff)

BMW CCA

Last edited by Zeichen311; 02-19-2016 at 12:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-19-2016, 12:54 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9,186
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Two things have recently changed--one technical, one political--that could explain it. Neither would have me worrying about the product.

1. The LL-01 spec is obsolete. BMW recently published an updated long-life specification for newer models (LL-14, I think). Mobil has probably not yet reformulated, or at least tested, their product for compliance with the new standard. So, the smart (lawsuit-proof ) move would be to remove the blanket "approved for BMW" labeling altogether until they do, if it is not true for all BMWs. Stating that it meets some specs, not others, and is approved for older BMWs, not newer ones, would be a potential headache and probably do more harm than good.

2. BMW recently changed their oil supplier/marketing partner from Castrol to Shell. Perhaps that change is making life difficult for Mobil in some way (access to the specifications? legal weirdness? ).

Either way, I would not hesitate to continue using Mobil 1 0W40 (if I did use it) in either of my cars. In all likelihood, it still meets the older specification and this is just a temporary change in labeling.
LL-14 seems to be the spec for 0W-20 oil used in their new generation three (MINI) and four cylinder engines starting with model year 2016.. LL01FE seems to be the spec' for their 0W-30 oils used in six and eight cylinder engines starting in model year 2016. Either way, BMW's requiring LL01 oils will be on the road for decades. LL01 has been around a long time, but it wasn't required in all BMW's. My 2014 535i only requires "BMW High Performance Full Synthetic," which is an ACEA A3/B3 oil, but doesn't meet LL01. The M cars using 5W-30 did specifically require LL01, though.

I'm just the opposite of you. If the just doesn't say "BMW LL01" I'm going to assume that it doesn't meet BMW LL01. This is especially true when the old jugs said "BMW LL01" but the new jugs don't.

I pulled the spec' sheet on the Castrol oil that met BMW LL01 a while back. It's high temperature viscosity was well above the minimum to qualify as an SAE 30, and almost enough to be an SAE 40.

Here's a link to the Lubrizol website that compares various oil spec's. LL01 and LL01FE exceed A3/B3 by a lot, and A1/B1 but by a lesser amount.

https://www.lubrizol.com/apps/relperftool/pc.html#

But, the new jug does say that it still meets Porsche A40. The Lubrizol chart shows that Porsche A40 is essentially as strict as BMW LL01, except for "soot thickening."

When I went to the Mobil 1 website and looked up spec's for "USA" and "OW-40" all I got was the Mobil 1 0W-40 ESP, which is a diesel rated oil meeting BMW LL04.
When I searched "Germany" and "0W-40," there was something called Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 that did meet BMW LL01 and Porsche A40.
I was going to send a "WTF?O" from their website, but the link doesn't work.


Update: I eventually figured out how to send Mobil an e-mail asking them "What up wit dat?". Stay tuned.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 02-19-2016 at 01:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-19-2016, 05:23 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9,186
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
The plot thins...

[


Mobil Products


5:23 PM (3 minutes ago)

to me

Thank you for your inquiry; however as of November 15, 2015, Mobil 1 0W-40, no longer carries the LL-01 spec due to new testing specs by BMW.
That is why you no longer see this spec on the listed on the bottle.

If you have any further questions, please let us know.

Thank you for choosing Mobil,

Eric

Mobil Help Desk Team

If I can help further with this inquiry or with any other questions, please respond to this email or phone us 1-800-ASK-Mobil

If you would like to provide feedback on your experience with us today please email [email protected]



My guess would be it has something to do with soot thickening, since it still meets Porsche A40 and LL01 and Porsche A40 are similar except for that.

The real good news is that they supposedly haven't changed Mobil 1 0W-40.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160219 bmw ll01 vs porsche a40 radar chart.jpeg
Views:	717
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	551538  
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-19-2016, 05:40 PM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,437
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
currently labeled with LL01 or not:

Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
more than 15k apparently. the OBC still had 400 miles on it when I changed it!
Please note I track this car a few times a year as well.

__________________
e30: '87 325i: MAF+WAR chip, long tube STAHL headers, 5MT swap, 4.27 torsen
e60: '08 550i M-sport, 6MT, ARC, Active Steering, 19" wheel delete
R1100S - oilhead FTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Although I have nothing scientific to say, I can confidently say that it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
If you want to use the fuhrers snowmobile you gotta have das tires
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-19-2016, 05:40 PM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,437
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
doublepost
__________________
e30: '87 325i: MAF+WAR chip, long tube STAHL headers, 5MT swap, 4.27 torsen
e60: '08 550i M-sport, 6MT, ARC, Active Steering, 19" wheel delete
R1100S - oilhead FTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Although I have nothing scientific to say, I can confidently say that it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
If you want to use the fuhrers snowmobile you gotta have das tires

Last edited by u3b3rg33k; 02-20-2016 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-20-2016, 01:52 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,999
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Two things have recently changed--one technical, one political--that could explain it. Neither would have me worrying about the product.

1. The LL-01 spec is obsolete. BMW recently published an updated long-life specification for newer models (LL-14, I think). Mobil has probably not yet reformulated, or at least tested, their product for compliance with the new standard. So, the smart (lawsuit-proof ) move would be to remove the blanket "approved for BMW" labeling altogether until they do, if it is not true for all BMWs. Stating that it meets some specs, not others, and is approved for older BMWs, not newer ones, would be a potential headache and probably do more harm than good.

2. BMW recently changed their oil supplier/marketing partner from Castrol to Shell. Perhaps that change is making life difficult for Mobil in some way (access to the specifications? legal weirdness? ).

Either way, I would not hesitate to continue using Mobil 1 0W40 (if I did use it) in either of my cars. In all likelihood, it still meets the older specification and this is just a temporary change in labeling.
So which other oils are LL-14 other than BMW band 5W30?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:47 PM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,488
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
You only need to worry about the LL (Long Life) spec if you are going to run longer (say 15,000 mile) oil change intervals. Just use a good quality oil and replace it at a reasonable (say 5000-7500 mile) interval. Your cooling system will explode and leave you with warped cylinder heads before you will suffer any oil related engine damage. That is what you should worry about.

Motor on!!!
__________________
2002 530i
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-21-2016, 05:25 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
my BMW mechanic suggested running 5W40 full synthetic. I can't remember the brand but he orders it right from Germany. It is quite expensive but was told by quite a few that it is the best oil for a BMW. It was 9$ a quart and that was a deal as it is a friend of mine who runs the shop. I will get the brand when i have a few minutes go to look into the trunk but he and his mechanic swear by the stuff. Said they have taken apart motors running other types of supposedly BMW safe oil and said they found sludge so decided to stick with this oil as every motor taken apart since running this type of oil were free of sludge and very clean. I am in no away an expert or mechanic however all I can do is pass on my knowledge. So i will get the type as soon as I can. Thanks
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-21-2016, 05:46 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
Total Quartz INEO MC3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy320i View Post
my BMW mechanic suggested running 5W40 full synthetic. I can't remember the brand but he orders it right from Europe. It is quite expensive but was told by quite a few that it is the best oil for a BMW. It was 9$ a liter and that was a deal as it is a friend of mine who runs the shop. I will get the brand when i have a few minutes go to look into the trunk but he and his mechanic swear by the stuff. Said they have taken apart motors running other types of supposedly BMW safe oil and said they found sludge so decided to stick with this oil as every motor taken apart since running this type of oil were free of sludge and very clean. I am in no away an expert or mechanic however all I can do is pass on my knowledge. So i will get the type as soon as I can. Thanks
Ok so the oil I am now running is called Total Quartz INEO MC3, 5W40,Dexos2

Has anyone else heard of this oil? This was the first time i have but after speaking to a few mechanics and friends tend to believe it is as good as they suggest. Any thoughts on it? Again i am not saying it's the best oil in world however am passing on what i have heard.

Thanks guys
Andre
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quartz oil pic jpg.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	71.8 KB
ID:	551817  
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-21-2016, 05:59 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 42,450
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy320i View Post
Ok so the oil I am now running is called Total Quartz INEO MC3, 5W40,Dexos2

Has anyone else heard of this oil? This was the first time i have but after speaking to a few mechanics and friends tend to believe it is as good as they suggest. Any thoughts on it? Again i am not saying it's the best oil in world however am passing on what i have heard.

Thanks guys
Andre
Never heard of this oil....
"Sludged" vs. "No Sludged" engines is more a matter of driving habits and trip length rather than what brand of oil you`re using. Sticking to the familiar, proven brands already mentioned here (i.e., Mobil 1 0W-40 and Castrol Euro-blend Synthetic 5W-30, as sold by dealers) will insure that your engine will be protected properly.
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Disabled American Veterans*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-21-2016, 06:12 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Reno NV & Healdsburg CA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,821
Mein Auto: 4 BMWs, 1 Mini, 1 Vespa
Total is a popular brand in Europe, a little bit a niche product in the US. Good stuff, and I think I recall seeing it on the approved BMW oil list, although I recall what grade was on the approved list.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:09 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
thanks guys for the input. I will try the oil for while and see how it performs. Seems to me he said it was one of the brands that was approved by BMW. Also runs it in Porsche, Mercedes and few more luxury brands and never has had one complaint from what have heard. It is made in France from what can tell. So again ..will give it a try cause for the price i don'y find it that bad. Thanks
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:19 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
And i did check and it is approved for BMW , Porsche , ford and Fiat. There was a whole bunch of abbreviations that mean noting to me as well but seems like a good oil.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160221_231656.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	138.5 KB
ID:	551839  
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:28 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,999
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy320i View Post
And i did check and it is approved for BMW , Porsche , ford and Fiat. There was a whole bunch of abbreviations that mean noting to me as well but seems like a good oil.
The label in the picture says LL-04, which is supposed to be for diesel(good for DPF), but can be used in place of LL-01.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:38 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
The label in the picture says LL-04, which is supposed to be for diesel(good for DPF), but can be used in place of LL-01.
ok..so i still should be good right? Got me a little worried for a minute...lol
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-21-2016, 09:49 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,999
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy320i View Post
ok..so i still should be good right? Got me a little worried for a minute...lol
This is the reference to LL-04:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

"BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended."

Based on this if LL-01 is approved for E39 engines then LL-04 should be OK.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.