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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:18 PM
klayne klayne is offline
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Did my SA just lie to me??

Hello Folks,

This is my first post on this forum but I think this story is too good not to share..

On Tuesday I took my 2011 e70 X5 5.0i (w/ 112k Miles) to the dealership because my steering column stopped moving up and down. By that afternoon my SA called me back with a list of issues their techs found with my car, none of which had anything to do with my steering wheel.

He proceeds to tell me that my car had a coolant leak from the turbo coolant return lines (i replaced one set last year) which is going to cost me $2500+. He also says that I have oil building up on the valley of my engine which could run me around $3000 to dig in and fix. He is also estimating that i will need new spark plugs and coils as well, but couldn't confirm until they got into the job.

I immediately declined, picked up the car today and took it to an independent mechanic for analysis. Will probably get more information from him tomorrow.

Funny part is that when i got home and started reading the documentation the dealership provided and i see the following:

"See Key Data - The Vehicle is calling for scope test - Oil Service - Spark Plugs - Inspect and add to the SMI Report"

Did my SA just lie to me about all this work because the car maintenance plan says i should do it?

FYI.. I changed my spark plugs and coils 20k miles ago, i also did my oil service 3k miles ago.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:28 PM
steiny93 steiny93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klayne View Post
Did my SA just lie to me about all this work because the car maintenance plan says i should do it?
The SA prolly didn't lie, rather...

The SA was bringing stuff to your attention which they found when looking at the vehicle; that would include what the car is reporting out as needed maintenance.

From what you've mentioned nothing seems out of the norm. If the vehicle wasn't reset for the oil service, it'd be typical to assume it isn't current and would need an oil change.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:32 PM
klayne klayne is offline
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@steiny93 any idea why / how the car would call for a scope test? Is that in the maintenance plan or is a sensor being triggered somewhere? I've tried googling and couldn't find anything
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:36 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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So, how about the steering wheel? Inquiring minds want to know? Did you authorize work like, "Customer states steering wheel stopped moving up and down. Diagnose and cure.". Making it clear that THAT is what you will pay for?

I recently paid for $3000 in authorized work while 32+ FRU warranty work was well done - FINAL airbag replacement. On top of that they asked to do the brakes too. "When CBS requires!". They need to make a payment on their espresso machine.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 05-28-2020, 02:37 PM
steiny93 steiny93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klayne View Post
@steiny93 any idea why / how the car would call for a scope test? Is that in the maintenance plan or is a sensor being triggered somewhere? I've tried googling and couldn't find anything
In BMW lingo a 'scope test' is a standard diagnostic check of the vehicle. My guess is that they put the vehicle on the diagnostic computer looking for a fault on your steering and seen the maintenance call outs (oil service / plugs / coils) which then made it onto the service order.

The coolant and oil items were based on their inspection.

If you've already handled the maintenance items then don't worry about em, you can use your judgement on the oil / coolant topics.
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:43 PM
klayne klayne is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
So, how about the steering wheel? Inquiring minds want to know? Did you authorize work like, "Customer states steering wheel stopped moving up and down. Diagnose and cure.". Making it clear that THAT is what you will pay for?
Doug.. they quoted me $3000 to replace the steering column and I refused. Reasons why:
1) it's in a perfect position for both my wife and I..
2) I can get a used online and replace for less than $500..

These prices all sound extremely inflated even for dealership standards
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Old 05-28-2020, 02:52 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klayne View Post
Doug.. they quoted me $3000 to replace the steering column and I refused. Reasons why:
1) it's in a perfect position for both my wife and I..
2) I can get a used online and replace for less than $500..

These prices all sound extremely inflated even for dealership standards
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...stment/XkqMWqL

It is probably NOT the column. My first guess would be the infamous FRM
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2020, 02:53 PM
klayne klayne is offline
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Originally Posted by steiny93 View Post
In BMW lingo a 'scope test' is a standard diagnostic check of the vehicle.
Thanks for the insight.. I hear scope and think about engine borescope, which is rather invasive.
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  #9  
Old 05-28-2020, 03:03 PM
klayne klayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...stment/XkqMWqL

It is probably NOT the column. My first guess would be the infamous FRM

Doug... Appreciate the insight.. I'll research more about that module.. I do see that when i hit the switch to move the steering wheel, I hear the motor turn on but nothing happens. Wouldn't that mean we're past the electrical modules and dealing with a mechanical one on the column??

Last edited by klayne; 05-28-2020 at 03:13 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2020, 03:32 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klayne View Post
Doug... Appreciate the insight.. I'll research more about that module.. I do see that when i hit the switch to move the steering wheel, I hear the motor turn on but nothing happens. Wouldn't that mean we're past the electrical modules and dealing with a mechanical one on the column??
There is one motor for both length and angle, which controlled by a solenoid.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #11  
Old 05-28-2020, 10:18 PM
ard ard is offline
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Dealer at 112k miles?????? I mean why????

I know, I know...Covid Boredom?






As others have explained, the term 'scope' isnt a technical test or procedure.

The BMW system just splurts out crap that SAs can add onto the estimates.

As far as blaming the SA....

Quote:
A scorpion, which cannot swim, asks a frog to carry it across a river on the frog's back. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung by the scorpion, but the scorpion argues that if it did that, they would both drown. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung the frog despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I couldn't help it. It's in my nature.
eh, its in their nature.


Also, people seem to think that BMW dealers (and other shops) are duty bound to provide "perfect, take it to the bank" estimates. We see this often- an owner comes away from a dealer with an estimate of '$xxxx to replace YYYY', people think they can buy a YYYY and it will surely fix their issue. Remember, its just an estimate- once a real tech spends actual time digging in, the story may change- heck, many shops quote such big dollars they know it will be easy to cover it one way or the other. Or worse, you get the call "Yeah, the column was bad, but when it failed it ALSO took out the FRM- which is another $2800. Problem it that we (you) dont really know the extent of what they ddi to diagnose your issue.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2020, 05:43 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Did my SA just lie to me??

Ard, I used to take mine in for an oil change (with a discount coupon) and take the time to get in one of their loaners for a few days...

The price I paid was hearing them tell me I have to replace the PS pump because of leaking seals, the water pump (that they replaced 10/20k miles ago) due to mileage, the coolant hose due to age, the...

Last time around they gave me a 740e - Took it to Dallas for a nice 700 mile round trip with the family over the weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by ArgentoCarNut; 05-29-2020 at 05:44 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2020, 09:59 AM
ard ard is offline
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I found that leaving my car with them overnight was too nerve-wracking.


Edit. And I've been friends with the SA and a master tech for 12+ years.....
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 05-29-2020 at 10:00 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2020, 10:00 AM
Aquamania001 Aquamania001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
Ard, I used to take mine in for an oil change (with a discount coupon) and take the time to get in one of their loaners for a few days...

The price I paid was hearing them tell me I have to replace the PS pump because of leaking seals, the water pump (that they replaced 10/20k miles ago) due to mileage, the coolant hose due to age, the...

Last time around they gave me a 740e - Took it to Dallas for a nice 700 mile round trip with the family over the weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now that is good use of a loaner car!!!
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2020, 03:09 PM
ard ard is offline
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Yeah, local dealer now limit mileage on loaners.

Although SA told me they will make exceptions as needed.
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2020, 03:31 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Yeah, local dealer now limit mileage on loaners.

Although SA told me they will make exceptions as needed.
Good to know. While being serviced in Appleton, Wisconsin, I usually overnight a hundred or so miles away in Port Washington, a hundred miles by nice BMW loaner.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-29-2020, 05:02 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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An acquaintance had a new Oldsmobile that was just about to trigger the lemon law. GM told the dealer to let him keep the loaner until GM was sure the car was fixed. The guy was in a Navy Hornet squadron in Jacksonville. A lot of his squadron-mates left their families in Norfolk when they did their two year sea tour out of Jacksonville. There was no sense in having their spouse lose their job by moving to Jacksonville for two years and be at sea for half that time, just to them likely move back to Norfolk for their next tour. He punished GM and the dealer by lending his loaner to his buddies for weekend trips to Norfolk to see their families. He turned the loaner back in with worn out tires.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-29-2020 at 05:12 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2020, 05:05 PM
Symbol57 Symbol57 is offline
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Hi there, I have found similar issues here in Oz. I discovered that the dealers are renumerated on service as well as sales. The more they can get from you, the more bounus they get.
I have gone to 3 dealers here and had the same issue. For example, I took my 320 in for a knock at the front end and BMW wanted $4500 to replace the steering rack which I declined. I took the car to a local garage who fixed the issue for$250. Loose bolts.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2020, 05:39 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbol57 View Post
Hi there, I have found similar issues here in Oz. I discovered that the dealers are renumerated on service as well as sales. The more they can get from you, the more bounus they get.
I have gone to 3 dealers here and had the same issue. For example, I took my 320 in for a knock at the front end and BMW wanted $4500 to replace the steering rack which I declined. I took the car to a local garage who fixed the issue for$250. Loose bolts.
Man, I thought everyone knew this.

Dealers- basically ALL car marques- make WAY WAY more on the service side of the business than they do on new car sales. Used sales is a close second....

SAs can be personally compensated, with individual bonuses...or team comp. I have seen SAs just make up quotes out of thin air- knowing the standard cost of a job is say $1720, yet they quote $2856. If the person bites, they get a healthy piece of the extra 1156. Its crazy.

These same guys will sit there, shake their heads and agree with angry/distraught/shocked owners at how terrible BMWs are and how much they cost to fix. "What are ya gonna do, eh?" or "Boy those German engineers,right?" or "I really feel bad but I was able to fight with my boss and we got that 2856 price down to 2100 for you".

Basically bending you over, but only putting it half way in.

PS When a quote is even, ending in 00 or 50, it is usually made up. But then again, they know this so they make up oddball numbers to make them seem more real...
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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