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  #76  
Old 07-05-2016, 12:16 PM
Ninong Ninong is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
The 2.6% quoted ... is net profit after all cost, but before paying taxes.
^^^
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  #77  
Old 07-18-2016, 04:44 PM
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Certainly glad I did my ED when I did it. Sure sounds like the saving is reduced quite a bit. I ended up with 14% off MSRP including a holiday bonus incentive. Have to guess Euro delivery's will suffer.
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  #78  
Old 07-26-2016, 07:32 PM
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Not sure ED deals will save buyers enough money to justify the cost of the trip. However if you want to go to Europe AND you want to buy a new BMW then it does make sense.
Do you really think the old savings paid for someones ED trip? For myself, I used airlines points to off set the cost as well as hotel.
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  #79  
Old 07-26-2016, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
Certainly glad I did my ED when I did it. Sure sounds like the saving is reduced quite a bit. I ended up with 14% off MSRP including a holiday bonus incentive. Have to guess Euro delivery's will suffer.
I doubt it, people will still do, but some trips wont be for the full two weeks to help off set the cost.
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  #80  
Old 08-13-2016, 01:32 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Does anyone know if Mini USA is going to the same Added Value Program system that BMW is using for 2017?
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  #81  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:02 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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For model year (MY) 2017 BMW is changing how invoice pricing and dealer compensation works. This has changed the calculations for invoice and European Delivery pricing, the new calculations are below. Read on to find out why or just jump down to do the calculations. Use our 2017 BMW pricing and ordering guides for MSRP pricing.

Back story on why BMW invoice pricing is changing
Last year BMW NA CEO Ludwig Willisch announced that changes that were coming for dealer compensation. His new plan is intended to move BMW from the bottom of the pile in customer satisfaction rating, especially around service. Under the new plan dealerships can earn up to a 1 percent bonus based on 4 criteria. This was BMW NA's way of providing incentives to dealerships to provided a better customer experience and customer loyalty. Now that 1 percent has to come from somewhere and with 2017 pricing in hand we now know it is coming out of the invoice price of the car.

In 2016 the difference in price between MSRP and invoice was 8 percent for the vehicle and 9 percent for options and packages. For 2017 the discount between MSRP and invoice is 7 percent for the vehicle and options and packages being 8 percent. In effect BMW has taken 1 percent out of the front end of the deal putting it in the back end of the deal as a carrot for dealerships to chase.

For 2017 we're likely to see deals closer to invoice pricing as dealerships push for volume to hit the back end targets. BMW has also increased the holdback (more back end money) from 5 percent of vehicle base cost to 5 percent of the sticker price, giving dealership more room to deal on highly optioned vehicles. What happens in the real market is yet to be seen. As 2017s start hitting the show room stay tuned to find out what Bimmerfest members are getting for deals.


BMW US Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.93
+ MACO fee $500.00 (flat rate applied to all dealers)
= Base vehicle US BMW invoice price

To figure the invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Training fee of $180.00
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00

BMW European Delivery Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.95 gives you the base vehicle European Delivery price (ED discount reduced from 7% to 5% for 2016)
Multiple the base vehicle European Delivery pricing by 0.93
+ $475 fee (this started in 2016 and applies to all dealers)
= Base vehicle European Delivery invoice price

To figure the European Delivery invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00

Big thanks to Bimmerfest member Ninong and others for helping to get this figured out.
Do you know if Mini is now using the same or a similar pricing structure as BMW? Does Mini have a version of AVP? Thanks.
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  #82  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Do you know if Mini is now using the same or a similar pricing structure as BMW? Does Mini have a version of AVP? Thanks.
have you thought about posting this question in the Mini forum?
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  #83  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:02 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eagle11 View Post
have you thought about posting this question in the Mini forum?
Thanks Eagle11. I posted on the Mini board as well and am hoping for a response. I thought I might catch someone's eye on this thread who knows a lot about this stuff. Very difficult to find detailed info on how Mini works the back end with dealers. Much more info available about BMW, as earlier posts on this thread show.
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  #84  
Old 08-15-2016, 11:19 AM
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I don't but I'll see if I can find out.

Tim
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  #85  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:35 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
I don't but I'll see if I can find out.

Tim
Thanks. Looking forward to learning what you can discover. Also interested in learning right price to pay for wheel and tire protection. I hear run flats can be pricey. Yet don't want to overpay for an insurance product. All insights are appreciated.
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  #86  
Old 08-16-2016, 11:33 AM
wco81 wco81 is offline
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Quote:
BMW European Delivery Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.95 gives you the base vehicle European Delivery price (ED discount reduced from 7% to 5% for 2016)
Multiple the base vehicle European Delivery pricing by 0.93
+ $475 fee (this started in 2016 and applies to all dealers)
= Base vehicle European Delivery invoice price

To figure the European Delivery invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00
I updated the percentages for ED from an older Google Sheets spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1745172441
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  #87  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:30 AM
ctorrey ctorrey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I updated the percentages for ED from an older Google Sheets spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1745172441
Couple questions: 1) Just to confirm, MACO should be added to both MSRP & Invoice pricing? 2) Invoice cells for C5 - C8 use 91% while the others below are 92%. Is that correct?
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  #88  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctorrey View Post
Couple questions: 1) Just to confirm, MACO should be added to both MSRP & Invoice pricing? 2) Invoice cells for C5 - C8 use 91% while the others below are 92%. Is that correct?
The answers are here - https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=917430
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  #89  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:40 AM
ctorrey ctorrey is online now
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Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
Very true, but not crystal clear. From that page, we do add $500 MACO as part of base invoice price. However, I don't see how it is handled with respect to MSRP. Assumed it is not added to MSRP (for the purpose of calculating residual), but your spreadsheet has it included. Also note the comment I made about your sheet's calcs for 4 of the cells (91% vs 92%). Assuming 92% for ALL options.

PS: This is a great thread.

BMW US Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.93
+ MACO fee $500.00 (flat rate applied to all dealers)
= Base vehicle US BMW invoice price

To figure the invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Training fee of $180.00
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00
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2017 X3 2.8 xDrive | Deep Sea Blue | Saddle Brown Dakota | ZXD | ZW2 | ZDA | ZLP | ZP3 | ZTP | 5DL


Gone, but not forgotten:
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11 BMW 335xi E90
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  #90  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:43 AM
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That is not my spreadsheet. MACO (which isn't what it is called any more but a good enough term for now since we don't know the new one) is included in MSRP and should not be added to it. The new percentages are .93 for the base vehicle and .92 for all options.

Tim
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  #91  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:45 AM
ctorrey ctorrey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
That is not my spreadsheet. MACO (which isn't what it is called any more but a good enough term for now since we don't know the new one) is included in MSRP and should not be added to it. The new percentages are .93 for the base vehicle and .92 for all options.

Tim
Perfect - thanks!
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2017 X3 2.8 xDrive | Deep Sea Blue | Saddle Brown Dakota | ZXD | ZW2 | ZDA | ZLP | ZP3 | ZTP | 5DL


Gone, but not forgotten:
14 BMW 335xi F30
11 BMW 335xi E90
08 BMW 335i E90
05 Audi A4 3.0q USP
01 Audi A6 4.2q
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  #92  
Old 08-17-2016, 03:08 PM
wco81 wco81 is offline
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Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
That is not my spreadsheet. MACO (which isn't what it is called any more but a good enough term for now since we don't know the new one) is included in MSRP and should not be added to it. The new percentages are .93 for the base vehicle and .92 for all options.

Tim
OK I think I got all the percentages right.

So don't add MACO as a separate line item because it's already in the MSRP?
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  #93  
Old 08-17-2016, 03:59 PM
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You add it if you're trying to calculate invoice, you don't add it otherwise. I think my first post is really clear about this, how can I clarify it so it is better? If you tell me what car you're looking at we can run through the numbers together.

Tim
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  #94  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:04 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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I don't but I'll see if I can find out.

Tim
I'm not finding success in getting information regarding how Mini dealers in the USA get paid on the back end of new car sales. I've posted on the Mini page and on other forums as well. Hoping for better luck here since this forum has provided lots of detail about BMWNA's AVP program for BMW dealers which, instead of old-fashioned holdback payments, compensates dealers based on CSI, customer retention, and other measures. We learned from this thread and others how BMW recently tweaked the way AVP payments are determined, but there's still a lot of potential money for the BMW dealer behind the invoice. Many BMW deals are done around invoice with dealers making their $ on the back end. Since Mini is part of BMW, one wonders if the Mini back end program reflects what's going on over at BMW.

Mini USA claims to offer no holdback to dealers. Sales consultants, of course, are still interested in holding the gross between MSRP and invoice because most sales people make the bulk of their living within that margin. But the dealership protects the back end behind the invoice for obvious reasons. An unfortunate result is that driving a good deal often short-changes the sales person who isn't always able to participate in the back end payments. And, of course, the customer is pressed to pay as close to MSRP as possible because the sales consultant is trading away chunks of his/her cut every time the sales price gets near invoice. And, unlike the higher priced BMW line, there aren't as many dollars in most Mini sales.

Now that new Mini sales transactions are moving up into the $40K range, the inner workings of the deals are becoming significant during sales negotiations. Others have opined that how the dealer makes money shouldn't be a concern for the customer -- the customer should focus on getting a fair deal. This is wise counsel. HOWEVER, my recent experience has been less-than-honest interaction with a Mini sales manager who tried the old tricks of changing money factors and inflating other numbers. Yes, I walked and found what I think is a dealer who is better. But the reality remains, tricks are played and the deeper one's understanding of the inner workings of the deal, the greater the likelihood of a fair deal (and a satisfied customer which = high CSI)

So what's the scoop?

(If this isn't info to be posted in an open forum, feel free to send me a PM if you can help add to our understanding of how the sales process works.)

I apologize for basically re-posting my previous query, but I'm still seeking answers. Thanks.

Last edited by 1968BMW2800; 08-25-2016 at 09:07 AM.
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  #95  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:24 AM
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tim330i tim330i is offline
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I can probably get MINI retail pricing and figure out the calculations for invoice but I won't be able to help you with the detail you're looking for. We've figured out the info over several years with multiple sources contributing details. I don't have the network of MINI dealers and other key people to really get behind the scenes.

Tim
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  #96  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:44 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
I can probably get MINI retail pricing and figure out the calculations for invoice but I won't be able to help you with the detail you're looking for. We've figured out the info over several years with multiple sources contributing details. I don't have the network of MINI dealers and other key people to really get behind the scenes.

Tim
Thanks Tim. No need to do all of that. Invoice is fairly transparent so I've got that -- or close enough. Perhaps after I conclude my deal the SM at the Mini store will enlighten me a bit. I'm not afraid to ask

I appreciate your responsiveness and am confident I will receive a fair deal.
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  #97  
Old 09-12-2016, 07:34 AM
jeftrz jeftrz is offline
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New option allowance on '017s 440i

I was close to signing on an invoice +MACO +Fees +D&H +$500 deal, but BMW USA has added a new $1000 option allowance program:
http://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers...40i-Coupe.html

I had about $4000 bucks in options selected and was sitting about $50,750 for the deal.

Would the $1000 comes off the bottom line and put me at $49,750 or do I need to prorate by the 92% and only deduct $920, so $49,830?
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  #98  
Old 09-12-2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jeftrz View Post
I was close to signing on an invoice +MACO +Fees +D&H +$500 deal, but BMW USA has added a new $1000 option allowance program:
http://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers...40i-Coupe.html

I had about $4000 bucks in options selected and was sitting about $50,750 for the deal.

Would the $1000 comes off the bottom line and put me at $49,750 or do I need to prorate by the 92% and only deduct $920, so $49,830?
It's a 1K credit on options so take your options and subtract 1K.
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  #99  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:35 PM
Okiekids1 Okiekids1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
For model year (MY) 2017 BMW is changing how invoice pricing and dealer compensation works. This has changed the calculations for invoice and European Delivery pricing, the new calculations are below. Read on to find out why or just jump down to do the calculations. Use our 2017 BMW pricing and ordering guides for MSRP pricing.

Back story on why BMW invoice pricing is changing
Last year BMW NA CEO Ludwig Willisch announced that changes that were coming for dealer compensation. His new plan is intended to move BMW from the bottom of the pile in customer satisfaction rating, especially around service. Under the new plan dealerships can earn up to a 1 percent bonus based on 4 criteria. This was BMW NA's way of providing incentives to dealerships to provided a better customer experience and customer loyalty. Now that 1 percent has to come from somewhere and with 2017 pricing in hand we now know it is coming out of the invoice price of the car.

In 2016 the difference in price between MSRP and invoice was 8 percent for the vehicle and 9 percent for options and packages. For 2017 the discount between MSRP and invoice is 7 percent for the vehicle and options and packages being 8 percent. In effect BMW has taken 1 percent out of the front end of the deal putting it in the back end of the deal as a carrot for dealerships to chase.

For 2017 we're likely to see deals closer to invoice pricing as dealerships push for volume to hit the back end targets. BMW has also increased the holdback (more back end money) from 5 percent of vehicle base cost to 5 percent of the sticker price, giving dealership more room to deal on highly optioned vehicles. What happens in the real market is yet to be seen. As 2017s start hitting the show room stay tuned to find out what Bimmerfest members are getting for deals.


BMW US Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.93
+ MACO fee $500.00 (flat rate applied to all dealers)
= Base vehicle US BMW invoice price

To figure the invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Training fee of $180.00
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00

BMW European Delivery Invoice Pricing calculation
Base vehicle US MSRP (from pricing sheets below) multiplied by 0.95 gives you the base vehicle European Delivery price (ED discount reduced from 7% to 5% for 2016)
Multiple the base vehicle European Delivery pricing by 0.93
+ $475 fee (this started in 2016 and applies to all dealers)
= Base vehicle European Delivery invoice price

To figure the European Delivery invoice price of your BMW as configured add -
+ Option and packages (anything you can add to the vehicle) multiplied by 0.92
+ Destination and handling charge - Currently $995
= Total vehicle invoice price +/- $10.00

Big thanks to Bimmerfest member Ninong and others for helping to get this figured out.
I may be wrong about this, can one of you knowledgeable guys weigh-in? I live in a smaller market area. I've purchased serveral BMWs, but with this new 2017 invoice pricing change with less transparency, I need to double check. I feel like in the past not all dealerships were charged a MACO fee, just bigger markets. Am I thinking of some other type of fee? I'm just trying to make sure I get to the correct invoice price.
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  #100  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:37 PM
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There use to be some other fee that was region based or something (can't remember) but that has all changed.

Tim
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