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  #1  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:12 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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CEL Diagnostic/Repair P2457 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooling System Performance

Hi,

Recently, my car's CEL is on and after some diagnostic using the Foxwell NT520/510 Pro scanner, it gives me the following code.

Code: P2457 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooling System Performance
Model: 2010 BMW E70 35D
Miles: ~113K

By using the On-Board Monitor Test:
- EGR Monitor Bank 1/$83 Test
- Test Value: -1.5 F
- Min Limit: 5.0 F
- Max Limit: 3276.7
- Status: Fail

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There is one failed test might be related to the temperature sensor.

According to the diagram as provided in the link below:

Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...70#11717812513

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I am thinking that it might be the failed temperature sensor #13 as shown in the diagram above.

Can anyone provide suggestion as how to fix this problem?

I also check the EGR valve for CBU, and here are the pictures:

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It doesn't look that bad!

Has anyone tried the Liqui Moly Diesel Intake System Cleaner to clean the EGR valve? Please let me know if you tried before and how well it works for you.

Could this CBU on the EGR valve be the cause of this code? However, it doesn't explain the failed temperature sensor test/diagnostic. I am not sure how well the NT520 Pro's monitor tool can do and this is all I have to go by. My first instinct tell me that it might be temperature sensor related. I've ordered the part from my local BMW dealer that is 2 miles away from my house. I will report back if replacing the sensor fixes the problem.

Thanks,
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:12 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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A Diagnostic Trouble Code does not identify a particular failed part. It does identify a symptom that may be caused by any number of failed components or adjustments to be differentiated amongst by execution of a BMW Test Plan guide through the fault tree.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:59 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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As Doug said codes are indicative of symptoms. I had EGR code and it turned out to be pressure converter.


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Old 10-16-2018, 06:25 PM
ard ard is offline
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The sensor seems a pretty inexpensive thing to try....certainly the value is out of range. I wonder if disconnecting the sensor and seeing what the value is might conform a failed sensor?

Anyway, Report back
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:47 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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I posted my first question in order to make my whole story short. Here is the long version.

Initially, the car has the following codes and was running in limp mode with poor fuel performance.

P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected
P0101 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Conditions
P0299 Turbo / Super Charger Underboost
P0069 MAP - Barometric Pressure Correlation
P2279 Intake Air System Leak
P2458 Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency (Bank 1) Below Threshold

I bring my car to the BMW dealer with the following parts replaced.

Replace NOx Sensors Upstream and Down Stream (Under Warranty by BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-8-584-846 (Calibrated post installation)
Part #: 13-62-8-589-846 (Calibrated post installation)

Replace Thermostat With Adapter (BMW shop)
Part #: 11-51-7-805-811
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...65#11517805811

Replace EGR Valve (EGR Valve Failed Leaking, BMW shop)
Part #: 11-71-7-807-928
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...66#11717807928

Replace Charge Intake Air Temp Sensor (BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-7-812-741 (Intake Air Temperature)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...58#13627812741

Replace Charge Air Pressure Sensor (BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-7-792-260 (Fuel Injection)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...76#13627792260

The vacuum lines have been checked for leaking. There are some repairs the dealer suggest but I tell them to hold off because the price the dealer quoted are really outrageous for these simple fix.

Replace Mass Air Flow sensor (DIY in 10 min, cost $60)
Part #: 13-62-8-509-725 (BOSCH OEM from http://www.tunemyeuro.com/bmw-335d-a...r-13628509725/)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...56#13628509725

Replace Oil Pipe (leaking) and Washers (DIY in 1 hour, cost $61.82, quoted ~$4,000 by the dealer, no thanks!)
Part #: 11-42-7-795-972 (Oil Pipe, need to lose heat shield to replace)
Part #: 07-11-9-905-041 (x 8, washer)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...64#11427795972

So after all these repairs, the new code P2457 comes up and this is what I am trying to tackle now. The car runs very smoothly and with much better fuel efficiency. No rough idle and the turbo is very responsive.

Here are a list of possible repairs after extensive research on this issue:

1. EGR Coolers
1.1 Part #01: 11-71-7-812-513 (Front EGR Cooler, the spring is not broken)
1.2 Part #13: 13-62-8-506-995 (Temperature sensor, exhaust)
1.3 Part #08: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
1.4 Part #14: 11-71-7-807-927 (Back EGR Cooler)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...70#11717812513

2. Vacuum control-engine-turbo charger (the dealer might have ruled these out?)
2.1 Part #01: 11-65-8-509-323 (Pressure converter)
2.2 Part #04: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4225

3. Leaky Vacuum Lines (the dealer might have ruled these out? I hope so!)

4. EGR Valve (it doesn't looks bad for the amount of CBU after 113k miles)

5. EGR Delete (will go straight to this option if I need to replace the EGR cooler and just get rid of the problem altogether, total ~$1,000 with parts, JR tune, and shipping). I have talked to the tunemyeuro over the phone and the lady explained everything very clearly. She said, if I ever need to perform a full delete later (SCR/DPF), only the difference of the tuning will be charged.
5.1 Race Pipe: http://www.tunemyeuro.com/eco-billet...5d-and-x5-35d/
5.2 JR Tune: Stage 2

So here are a list of parts that I need to check and make sure they work properly

1.2 Part #13: 13-62-8-506-995 (Temperature sensor, exhaust)
1.3 Part #08: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
2.1 Part #01: 11-65-8-509-323 (Pressure converter)

I probably need to get a vacuum line checking tool to check whether the Pressure Converter or the Electr.valve is working properly or not? I will take off the temperature sensor and use a multi-meter to check the resistance variations due to temperature change (heat it with the stove or hot water.)

Thanks!
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:58 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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I just drive my car for 10 minutes and measure the resistance of the temp sensor. The change is from 10.1 komh cold to 6.52 komh. I donít know what the range should be but the sensor seems to be working.

One question, if the EGR spring is not broken, can I assume that the EGR cooler ok?


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  #7  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:06 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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Here is the picture of the EGR spring.Click image for larger version

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  #8  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:12 PM
BMW-X5 D BMW-X5 D is offline
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Mein Auto: 2013 BMW X5 35D
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer6612 View Post
I posted my first question in order to make my whole story short. Here is the long version.

Initially, the car has the following codes and was running in limp mode with poor fuel performance.

P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected
P0101 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Conditions
P0299 Turbo / Super Charger Underboost
P0069 MAP - Barometric Pressure Correlation
P2279 Intake Air System Leak
P2458 Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency (Bank 1) Below Threshold

I bring my car to the BMW dealer with the following parts replaced.

Replace NOx Sensors Upstream and Down Stream (Under Warranty by BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-8-584-846 (Calibrated post installation)
Part #: 13-62-8-589-846 (Calibrated post installation)

Replace Thermostat With Adapter (BMW shop)
Part #: 11-51-7-805-811
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...65#11517805811

Replace EGR Valve (EGR Valve Failed Leaking, BMW shop)
Part #: 11-71-7-807-928
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...66#11717807928

Replace Charge Intake Air Temp Sensor (BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-7-812-741 (Intake Air Temperature)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...58#13627812741

Replace Charge Air Pressure Sensor (BMW shop)
Part #: 13-62-7-792-260 (Fuel Injection)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...76#13627792260

The vacuum lines have been checked for leaking. There are some repairs the dealer suggest but I tell them to hold off because the price the dealer quoted are really outrageous for these simple fix.

Replace Mass Air Flow sensor (DIY in 10 min, cost $60)
Part #: 13-62-8-509-725 (BOSCH OEM from http://www.tunemyeuro.com/bmw-335d-a...r-13628509725/)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...56#13628509725

Replace Oil Pipe (leaking) and Washers (DIY in 1 hour, cost $61.82, quoted ~$4,000 by the dealer, no thanks!)
Part #: 11-42-7-795-972 (Oil Pipe, need to lose heat shield to replace)
Part #: 07-11-9-905-041 (x 8, washer)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...64#11427795972

So after all these repairs, the new code P2457 comes up and this is what I am trying to tackle now. The car runs very smoothly and with much better fuel efficiency. No rough idle and the turbo is very responsive.

Here are a list of possible repairs after extensive research on this issue:

1. EGR Coolers
1.1 Part #01: 11-71-7-812-513 (Front EGR Cooler, the spring is not broken)
1.2 Part #13: 13-62-8-506-995 (Temperature sensor, exhaust)
1.3 Part #08: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
1.4 Part #14: 11-71-7-807-927 (Back EGR Cooler)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...70#11717812513

2. Vacuum control-engine-turbo charger (the dealer might have ruled these out?)
2.1 Part #01: 11-65-8-509-323 (Pressure converter)
2.2 Part #04: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4225

3. Leaky Vacuum Lines (the dealer might have ruled these out? I hope so!)

4. EGR Valve (it doesn't looks bad for the amount of CBU after 113k miles)

5. EGR Delete (will go straight to this option if I need to replace the EGR cooler and just get rid of the problem altogether, total ~$1,000 with parts, JR tune, and shipping). I have talked to the tunemyeuro over the phone and the lady explained everything very clearly. She said, if I ever need to perform a full delete later (SCR/DPF), only the difference of the tuning will be charged.
5.1 Race Pipe: http://www.tunemyeuro.com/eco-billet...5d-and-x5-35d/
5.2 JR Tune: Stage 2

So here are a list of parts that I need to check and make sure they work properly

1.2 Part #13: 13-62-8-506-995 (Temperature sensor, exhaust)
1.3 Part #08: 11-74-7-810-831 (Electr.valve)
2.1 Part #01: 11-65-8-509-323 (Pressure converter)

I probably need to get a vacuum line checking tool to check whether the Pressure Converter or the Electr.valve is working properly or not? I will take off the temperature sensor and use a multi-meter to check the resistance variations due to temperature change (heat it with the stove or hot water.)

Thanks!


I just had the same problem and it turned out to be the EGR cooler had a crack in it, I started getting diesel exhaust smell in the cabin. I debated replacing the EGR cooler but I realized that this part is prone to failure and will eventually fail again. I decided to go with the JR stage 2 tune and the EGR race pipe from AA Rodriguez. I am waiting for the parts to be shipped backed to me and should have it running again by the weekend hopefully. The EGR will no longer be a problem and I will have an extra 70hp and 60lbs torque! I am keeping the rest of the emission equipment in place, DPF and SCR will still be functional after the tune. I had an error code for turbo underboost as well so I am going to replace the vacuum lines too. You may want to do the swirl flap delete at the same time if you decide to go that route.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:47 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-X5 D View Post
I just had the same problem and it turned out to be the EGR cooler had a crack in it, I started getting diesel exhaust smell in the cabin. I debated replacing the EGR cooler but I realized that this part is prone to failure and will eventually fail again. I decided to go with the JR stage 2 tune and the EGR race pipe from AA Rodriguez. I am waiting for the parts to be shipped backed to me and should have it running again by the weekend hopefully. The EGR will no longer be a problem and I will have an extra 70hp and 60lbs torque! I am keeping the rest of the emission equipment in place, DPF and SCR will still be functional after the tune. I had an error code for turbo underboost as well so I am going to replace the vacuum lines too. You may want to do the swirl flap delete at the same time if you decide to go that route.
In my case, there is no diesel smell in the cabin. Based on my research, the older EGR cooler with the build date before 11/2009 (not sure the exact date) has the problem and there is a recall to fix this problem (replace the EGR cooler). Have you check with BMWNA if your car qualifies for the recall? Obviously, you have installed the race pipe and this is no longer an issue. Please share your experience.

The BMW shop does fixed all the codes when I brought in my car for service. You can try to check the following parts and vacuum line leaks. Based on the diagram, I think the hard to reach part is the EGR valve on the passenger side (#8) in the diagram and you have to access it from underneath the engine. If you can take out the EGR cooler in the front, replacing the Thermostat should be a relatively easy job and then refill the coolant. Of course, this is specific to my car based on the BMW technician/repair invoice. Regardless of EGR Delete/Race Pipe/JR Stage 2 Tune, the turbo underboost problem still need to be fixed.

Have you seen this video posted by AARodriguez on youtube related to turbo underboost?



List of Parts to check:

Replace Thermostat With Adapter (BMW shop, keep to monitor if the coolant can reach the operating temprature @ ~186F, if not, the thermostat should be replaced.)
Part #: 11-51-7-805-811
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...65#11517805811

Replace EGR Valve (back/passenger side EGR Valve Failed Leaking, BMW shop)
Part #: 11-71-7-807-928
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...66#11717807928

Replace Charge Intake Air Temp Sensor (DIY)
Part #: 13-62-7-812-741 (Intake Air Temperature)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...58#13627812741

Replace Charge Air Pressure Sensor (DIY)
Part #: 13-62-7-792-260 (Fuel Injection)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...76#13627792260

Replace Mass Air Flow sensor (DIY)
Part #: 13-62-8-509-725 (BOSCH OEM from http://www.tunemyeuro.com/bmw-335d-a...r-13628509725/)
Diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...56#13628509725

I will probably go ahead with the Race Pipe/JR Stage 2 tune with EGR Delete option. I don't know if this P2457 code has any other side effect? If the EGR cooler is clogged, well, the car just deleted/blocked the EGR by itself!? Maybe I can just ignore the CEL for now until I get it replaced with race pipe and tuned. I ordered a WiFi borescope today from Amazon (lighting deal) and I will take off the temperature sensor and take a peek inside the cooler to see what's going on in there.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2018, 07:19 AM
BMW-X5 D BMW-X5 D is offline
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Yes I checked with BMW first to make sure that the EGR cooler was not eligible for a recall, unfortunately it is not for my vehicle. I recently changed the glow plugs and the glow plug module and I decided to change the thermostat at the same time. Also did the swirl flap delete and changed all of the intake manifold gaskets. I also changed all fluids and filters including Fuel filter, Diff fluids, Transfer Case fluid, and Transmission fluid/filter.

Hopefully once I replace the vacuum lines this car will be good for a while, I have been throwing a lot of money at it lately.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:09 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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Just make me wonder what is the point of keeping an ICE car with all the drama! An all electric car like Tesla probably makes more sense in the future.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:39 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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There is a nice write up by [email protected] on how to change the pressure converters.

Turbo Control, Vacuum System, Pressure Converters etc.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1308500


It probably makes sense to change the pressure converters and vacuum lines all together.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:43 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Originally Posted by bimmer6612 View Post
Just make me wonder what is the point of keeping an ICE car with all the drama! An all electric car like Tesla probably makes more sense in the future.
The drama of a computerized ICE is nothing compared to the computer complication of an electric car.

Absence of evidence, absence of your evidentiary experience, is not evidence of absence of bad experiences to come. Experience is a good teacher, a bad experience is a better teacher.

Once upon a time I got to call my Chief Test Engineer and tell him that the G-String had broken. That's complication!
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 10-17-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:21 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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The vacuum pump Mityvac 8500 ordered from Amazon has finally arrived today. I've studied the test plan many times and created a simple checklist with clear procedures for me to follow step by step.

The vacuum line leak was detected very quickly. The leaking is caused by the hose connecting the EUV (on top the front EGR cooler) to the EGR cooler's "actuator". To my surprise, the line is barely attached and I can pull it right off. Sadly, the connection is actually broken. Upon close inspection, I found that the hose with the broken tip still remains inside the hose and it was actually glued back together.

The person that could cause this issue was the technician who replaced my car's thermostat. The technician might have broken it by accident while trying to pull the EGR cooler out to replace the thermostat.

The good thing is that I have found the root cause of the issue (p2457)(not because of the broken spring). However, the only way to fix this issue is to replace the EGR cooler because of the broken port/connection.

To me, the evidence of the glue "residue" found both on the end of the hose and the base of the actuator strongly suggests that the technician broke the connection and then glued it back together.

Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue before? What is the best way to approach the dealer to fix the problem they caused and cover the repair cost?

Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:47 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer6612 View Post

Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue before? What is the best way to approach the dealer to fix the problem they caused and cover the repair cost?

Thanks!
I had an Acura MDX under 100k extended warranty.

I was changing the timing belt at 95k and when removing one of the motor mounts found the bolt cross threaded.

Talked to the service manager at the dealer- was honest. Said 'im a pretty accomplished mechanic, and this was clearly a production error. It was cross threaded from the moment I put a wrench on it. I know you need to take me at my word, but thats all I have. Your call- will you cover it? ' Shocked when he thought for a moment, looked me in the eye, and said yes we can do that.

Surprised was resigned to having to replace it on my own dime,

Guy went on to manage Niello BMW serice, then Niello Porsche service.

Still have that mdx with 330k.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:42 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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An endscope is used to take a closer look at the actuator.
Click image for larger version

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This is the image taken by the endscope.
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This is a close up image after taking off the hose.
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This is another close up image after taking off the hose.
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Based on the close up image, a broken plastic shouldn't have the "glue residue" on top of the broken plastic(the vacuum line connector) surface. The base of the actuator also has the glue residue around the connection port.

It is very obvious based on these images that the hose was "glued" back to the actuator. I have called the the service advisor to have it looked at next Tuesday. I will report back about how they handle this issue.

Can anyone give me some advice on dealing with this situation?
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:06 PM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: X5
It happens that I received an email by the facility director to share my past experience with the service they provided. I responded with positive comments and, in the meantime, I also mentioned about this incident. I got a response very quickly from the shop manager and he agrees to replace the part (actuator only, not the whole EGR cooler) and he also arranges a loaner car for me. Hopefully, everything goes smoothly.

There is one remaining issue that I need to take care of myself. After driving at highway speed and stopping at the traffic light, I can hear a humming noise coming from the passenger side of the engine. I think the pressure converter might be broken and needs to be replaced.

When I use the FoxWell scanner to monitor the EGR signals (both high and low pressure), the high pressure EGR seems to be working (fluctuating) and the low pressure EGR signal remains constant at 5% all the time. I don't know if this is as a result of a bad pressure converter or it might be the side effect of the front EGR cooler not been operating correctly.

I am yet to complete the whole test plan. I already have two pressure converters (tunemyeuro), one control valve switch(BMW), one reservoir (BMW) and 5 meters of vacuum lines(tunemyeuro) in my hand. If I have to get the reservoir assembly taken out, I think I will just replace them all with new vacuum lines. The EGR will be deleted if it gives me trouble in the future.

Maybe, I will try the "paper clip" method first to disable the electrical pin to keep the front EGR valve closed without inserting a blocker. I don't know if I can stand the sight of CEL and SES warning to be on all the time!

Please share your experience if you have tried the "paper clip" method before to prevent CBU in the future.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:10 AM
Tominizer Tominizer is offline
X-Rated Cannuck
Location: iceland
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 170
Mein Auto: none
Sorry to bring this back up from the dead but this thread has been very helpful.

Any follow-up on this adventure???
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:17 AM
bimmer6612 bimmer6612 is offline
Registered User
Location: Ohio
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominizer View Post
Sorry to bring this back up from the dead but this thread has been very helpful.

Any follow-up on this adventure???
I am planning to keep my 35d long term and I am able to do most of the maintenance myself. For this job, I have to find the most experienced shop and drive 10 hours all the way from Ohio to Georgia to have my vehicle serviced.

1. Full ABC delete with stage 2.8 tune.
2. Preventive part replacements: Grow Plugs/Controller, Fluid damper and Alternator Pulley
3. All air hoses replaced.

It is just more cost effective to do these jobs all at once when the shop is already doing it in the same area!

I also did the follow maintenance myself within the past year or so.

1. Engine oil / filter
2. Front/Rear differential oil
3. Transfer case oil
4. Transmission oil / pane with filter
5. Brake fluid
6. Fuel filter

On the highway, if I can control my right foot, I can get 30 mpg easily (my wife can do it most of the time and I tried it once just to verify. I don't think I will do it again just to save fuel. Where is the fun!). With 40+ percent more power and torque, you know what this beast can do!

The only downside - the smell, the familiar "diesel vehicle smell" that you have to live with it.
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