Turbocharging - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > General Automotive Forum

General Automotive Forum
All non-BMW car talk goes here...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:46 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,082
Mein Auto: '17 GTI '16 981 CS
Turbocharging

I am '80s kid, that's when I grew up. You know? SAAB 900 turbo? Audi Quattro Coupe? BMW and Renault with 4 cylinders 1.5 liter turbo engines putting out over 1,000 hp in qualifying trim for F1? Group B rallying? Yeah, that, the '80s. If you had legit "TURBO" badge on your car, you were definitely a far out bada$$.

Fast forward 35 years (man, I need lithium).

I got rid of one of the best and most rewarded engines of this decade (BMW N55) disgusted by the turbo. I like my '17 GTI a LOT less than I liked my confiscated TDI and both were turbocharged - but somehow the diesel was complimented by the turbo while GTI is really not, at least not even close to TDI. Couple of days ago we had a discussion on another forum about merits of turocharged 4 cylinder in place of NA 6 cylinder and the venom against turbo was evident. Today I read that a very much level-headed boss of F1 Red Bull team said with no word mincing that F1 needs back screaming NA V10 or V12 once the current formula agreement expires in 2020. Carmakers can go to Formula E to develop marketable powertrains - his words. He also did ad hoc poll with fans present at Silverstone for British GP and answeres were overwhelmingly in favor of NA V12.

Finally, and it doesn't count as data point, I have, like many here, a favorite won-the-lottery fantasy. Guess what? There is not a SINGLE new car produced by anybody that I want. I would spend north of 500,000 for completely rebuilt to my spec and taste 1989 car with MT and naturally aspirated 4.0 liter air-cooled flat 6.

So, considering when I grew up and the cultural conditioning of the teen/young adult years which should make me seek and pay ultra premium for turbocharged cars ... what went so wrong with turbocharging that turns off so many? Any ideas?

Sent from my SM-T713 using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
_

2017 Golf GTI |Silver over tartan cloth| MT| Base S, no options. Oh, wait! ... It does have a spare tire!

2016 981 Cayman S | 6-speed MT| Active suspension | Sport Exhaust System | Torque vectoring (with LSD) | Sport seats + | Sport design steering wheel

2013 VW Golf TDI [CONFISCATED]

2011 E92 335i 6MT ZSP ZCW (ED May 17th 2010) [SOLD]
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:34 AM
cwsqbm's Avatar
cwsqbm cwsqbm is offline
I do'nt make mistakes.
Location: Somewhere in the aether
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,478
Mein Auto: Quadricycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Finally, and it doesn't count as data point, I have, like many here, a favorite won-the-lottery fantasy. Guess what? There is not a SINGLE new car produced by anybody that I want. I would spend north of 500,000 for completely rebuilt to my spec and taste 1989 car with MT and naturally aspirated 4.0 liter air-cooled flat 6.
How about a new 911 GT3? The manual is back, with a 4.0L flat 6.

Or a GT-350, with it's crazy engine?

My experience with turbocharged engines is limited, but I didn't like any of them. On a racetrack, where the car is at high rpms, lag might not be an issue, but on a street I found it annoying. Keep pushing the pedal farther down to get the acceleration I wanted, and then get too much. There never seemed to be a happy medium.
__________________
.................................................. ...............................So long, Photobucket. .................................................. ..........................................
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:34 AM
rice_rocket88 rice_rocket88 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 402
Mein Auto: 2008 535xi
This might sound dumb but.. I think they made turbo cars too efficient, yet less powerful. Think about the era you reminisce about, the cars were relatively punchy, but when that turbo lag happened and then it kicked in, all hell broke loose, and you had a very badass car. I just drove a new GTI and it was fun, don't get me wrong. There was some turbo lag, but when it finally got going it was very lack lustre. The delivery of that power wasn't so great. In fact, with comparable HP in turbos, my wife's X1 felt better.. and with less weight, the mini cooper turbo (with the same engine as the X1) feels even better. I love, love my mitsubishi's and the 4g63 turbo engine. It feels pretty confident NA.. and then when the turbo kicks in I'm up to 300+ HP. You just have to find the right car.

I think you just missed out since you loved the N55... because the previous N54 that I have on my 08 E60 is just a tad better than the N55. I've driven and put in Jb4's on a few different models with the N55 (the 3 series, 4 series, and 5 series) and the N54 feels better. Don't give up hope.. there are still some cool cars out there Raw V8/V12 power is pretty darned cool, but quite unrealistic in most of today's driving. When the car itself that is equipped with such a nice engine is already very $$$$.. and driving it around town with 10mpg just doesn't jive anymore, or I'd have an E60 M5 to go along with the other cars I own.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 08-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,082
Mein Auto: '17 GTI '16 981 CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
How about a new 911 GT3? The manual is back, with a 4.0L flat 6.
Yeah, right. If I had $160k laying around to buy a toy, I'd marry a cheerleader

Quote:
On a racetrack, where the car is at high rpms, lag might not be an issue, but on a street I found it annoying. Keep pushing the pedal farther down to get the acceleration I wanted, and then get too much. There never seemed to be a happy medium.
For me, the main problem was on the track, I stopped driving my E92 in traffic three weeks after it got redelivered at the dealer.

On track, when you need to keep your rear end on tarmac with JUDICIOUS application of throttle at 80 mph entry speed, the engine that with same 1/2 inch of throttle travel delivers X torque at wheels on first lap, then Y torque at wheels the second lap and then 0 torque at wheels the thrid lap, considering same turn-in speed ... that is a VERY scary engine to be running on the track when your last name is not Hamilton or Vettel.

I don't even want to THINK how some of the lesser turbocharged engines behave. Fortunately, for now, I do not need to know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_rocket88 View Post
Raw V8/V12 power is pretty darned cool, but quite unrealistic in most of today's driving.
Was not talking about daily driving, I am almost happy with VW's EA888 2.0 liter for daily driving. I was perfectly happy with VW's 2.0 TDI for daily driving, but morons took that away from me - may they burn in Hell indefinitely for that.

My complaint is track/fun drive. Turbo just about kills it 90 %.

Oh, and by the way, I am not interested to find out how the proper turbocharged application works in 911 Turbo. It is the same story as with leather seats ... buy heating and seat ventilation. Yeah, if you didn't f%&@ck it up with leather in the first place, I wouldn't need damn ventialtion and heating - cloth was JUST FINE. So was natural aspiration

Sent from my SM-G950U using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
_

2017 Golf GTI |Silver over tartan cloth| MT| Base S, no options. Oh, wait! ... It does have a spare tire!

2016 981 Cayman S | 6-speed MT| Active suspension | Sport Exhaust System | Torque vectoring (with LSD) | Sport seats + | Sport design steering wheel

2013 VW Golf TDI [CONFISCATED]

2011 E92 335i 6MT ZSP ZCW (ED May 17th 2010) [SOLD]

Last edited by Mark K; 08-22-2017 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > General Automotive Forum
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.