BMW cuts No Cost Scheduled Maintenance - 3 years, 36k miles and no brakes for MY 2017 - Page 16 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #376  
Old 01-22-2017, 08:44 AM
gdyear78 gdyear78 is offline
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For those purchasing a 2017 they will certainly se a decrease in value. I bought 2 new BMW's in 2016, the MSRP now is very much higher for the same thing I have. For example:

MSRP on 2 series convertible I purchased in 2016: $50,470
MSRP on same 2 series convertible today with warranty etc to match: $53,169
Difference: $2,699

Now I know you can haggle with the price (I didn't pay full MSRP as most would not) but that's a big difference. the X1 I also purchased (mainly to take advantage of free maintenance while I could...and liked the new X1) is a similar price difference.

MSRP on X1 that I purchased in 2016: $43,875
MRSP on same X1 today with warranty to match: $46,434
Difference: $2,559

I've read that BMW sales are down and overtaken by Mercedes, other competitors taking bigger market share. Perhaps they will bring the maintenance plan back. I know I will look elsewhere for my next purchase if they don't.
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  #377  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:20 AM
mrblahh mrblahh is offline
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perhaps they will figure out how to put the soul back in them, that's what it'll take before I buy another new one.
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  #378  
Old 01-22-2017, 10:05 AM
mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Originally Posted by mrblahh View Post
perhaps they will figure out how to put the soul back in them, that's what it'll take before I buy another new one.
No way it's coming back.

You have to get a 2 series/M2 for that.
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  #379  
Old 01-22-2017, 11:09 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
No way it's coming back.

You have to get a 2 series/M2 for that.
It does feel like the E39 era 5-series soul is transplanted to F30. Maybe the next 3-series will complete the transformation of the 3 to the 5, both in soul and balanced handling + comfort.
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  #380  
Old 01-22-2017, 12:24 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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Recently my SA from Crevier BMW checked in with me to see how I was liking the car and I said that I loved it and it felt like a keeper to possibly buy at lease end. He said "well lucky for you then its a MY16 because you aren't losing out on the 4 yr/50k maintenance plan."

Only thing is, it seems like the brakes last forever and many owners wouldnt get a chance to take advantage of the front and rear brakes anyway. My service required display in iDrive says I have 39k miles left on my rears and 35 on the fronts (or maybe the other way around) which means I would be right on the edge of the free maintenance running out. Getting bmw to eat the cost of a brake job would be a big savings and you would be set for like 2-3 more years.

The wiper blade omission is just plain cheap
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  #381  
Old 01-22-2017, 01:11 PM
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The wiper blade omission is just plain cheap
More like a bonus you got used to.
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  #382  
Old 01-22-2017, 03:13 PM
mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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I replaced front brakes at 45k because of vibration.
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  #383  
Old 01-22-2017, 03:38 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I replaced front brakes at 45k because of vibration.
That might still 've covered as a warranty issue for 2017's.
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  #384  
Old 01-23-2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Only thing is, it seems like the brakes last forever and many owners wouldnt get a chance to take advantage of the front and rear brakes anyway. My service required display in iDrive says I have 39k miles left on my rears and 35 on the fronts (or maybe the other way around) which means I would be right on the edge of the free maintenance running out. Getting bmw to eat the cost of a brake job would be a big savings and you would be set for like 2-3 more years.

The wiper blade omission is just plain cheap
I have 60K on my 320, and the computer is telling me I have 15K left on my front and rear brakes. My front right fog light burnt out that will be taken care of at the next service, not too sure if I'll have BMW take care of it or an Indy shop. That should be my last service until I get my new Car.
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  #385  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:49 PM
Bimmer4life Bimmer4life is offline
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It's a shame they are doing away with free maint for 4 yrs, it was a selling point. It's all part of BMW to cut costs to stay ahead in the car business. There no different than any other business. They actually will benefit from this as people will buy extended warranties at time of closing more money in their pocket. It's a smart move, unfortunately BMW will fight you tooth and nail at service that whatever the issue is after 3 yrs your extended warranty you bought won't cover. I had an E46 for 9 yrs and my 2011 has been out of warranty for over 2 yrs. I've had to pay close to $4k in repairs in the past 2 yrs. It's a bear keeping these machines outside warranty.
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  #386  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:56 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Don't mix up warranties with maintenance. The warranty has not changed. and is still 4 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
It's a shame they are doing away with free maint for 4 yrs, it was a selling point. It's all part of BMW to cut costs to stay ahead in the car business. There no different than any other business. They actually will benefit from this as people will buy extended warranties at time of closing more money in their pocket. It's a smart move, unfortunately BMW will fight you tooth and nail at service that whatever the issue is after 3 yrs your extended warranty you bought won't cover. I had an E46 for 9 yrs and my 2011 has been out of warranty for over 2 yrs. I've had to pay close to $4k in repairs in the past 2 yrs. It's a bear keeping these machines outside warranty.
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  #387  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:57 PM
Nerdboss Nerdboss is offline
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Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
It's a shame they are doing away with free maint for 4 yrs, it was a selling point. It's all part of BMW to cut costs to stay ahead in the car business. There no different than any other business. They actually will benefit from this as people will buy extended warranties at time of closing more money in their pocket. It's a smart move, unfortunately BMW will fight you tooth and nail at service that whatever the issue is after 3 yrs your extended warranty you bought won't cover. I had an E46 for 9 yrs and my 2011 has been out of warranty for over 2 yrs. I've had to pay close to $4k in repairs in the past 2 yrs. It's a bear keeping these machines outside warranty.
How did you have 4k in repairs on a 2011?!? That's insane.
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  #388  
Old 01-26-2017, 02:28 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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^^ still a lot cheaper than a car payment on a new one, even on a 'cheap lease'. $166 a month break out
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  #389  
Old 01-26-2017, 03:31 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
It's a shame they are doing away with free maint for 4 yrs, it was a selling point. It's all part of BMW to cut costs to stay ahead in the car business. There no different than any other business. They actually will benefit from this as people will buy extended warranties at time of closing more money in their pocket. It's a smart move, unfortunately BMW will fight you tooth and nail at service that whatever the issue is after 3 yrs your extended warranty you bought won't cover. I had an E46 for 9 yrs and my 2011 has been out of warranty for over 2 yrs. I've had to pay close to $4k in repairs in the past 2 yrs. It's a bear keeping these machines outside warranty.
RobertA and Kafkaesque328 beat me to it.

I bet much of that $4k was tires, battery, and maybe front brake pads and rotors. Yeah, they're expensive for a BMW, but they're also pretty normal for a car of that age and mileage. There's usually a mid-life (50k to 60k miles) bump in maintenance costs. Then, things settle down for a while, until 100k to 120k miles).

Yeah, $2k/year in maintenance is a bear. But, it's a cuddly little koala bear. The depreciation on a new BMW is sort of an... invisible grizzly bear in comparison.

A good rule of thumb for the depreciation of a car driven 12k mile/year is 25% the first year; 20% the years the car goes out of warranty, turns seven model years old, and goes over 100k miles; and 15% the remaining years. Here's a table with the estimated depreciation for a $50k MSRP car. Using this rule of thumb for a $50k MSRP car, the deprecation doesn't go below $2k/year until the ninth year.

It's important to recognize that deprecation is money out of your pocket, or more accurately money off the bottom line of your balance sheet (net worth). Once you realize that, those $2k/year repair bills are much easier to stomach.

I kept my first BMW to 115k miles and 12.5 years. I was ahead of the game until the twelfth year. But, even year twelve (~$2k in depreciation, $7k in maintenance) was cheaper than the first year of my current BMW ($0 in maintenance, $19k in depreciation). The second year was better, only $10k in depreciation.

I'm budgeting $1750/year for maintenance in the out years (fourth through eighth). That's based on my experience with my first BMW. Even with these annual maintenance costs, those later years are "The Happy Time." I'll be driving an awesome car, kept awesome by proactive maintenance, for the cost of driving a new Hyundai.

The reason koala's are so cuddly is that they're not really bears. They're herbivorous (plant eating) marsupials.
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  #390  
Old 01-26-2017, 03:36 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Are you certain about your MSRP figures? While I don't know the specifics of these models, the list price of BMWs doesn't typically go up this much from one year to the next, unless there's a meaningful change in equipment level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdyear78 View Post
For those purchasing a 2017 they will certainly se a decrease in value. I bought 2 new BMW's in 2016, the MSRP now is very much higher for the same thing I have. For example:

MSRP on 2 series convertible I purchased in 2016: $50,470
MSRP on same 2 series convertible today with warranty etc to match: $53,169
Difference: $2,699

Now I know you can haggle with the price (I didn't pay full MSRP as most would not) but that's a big difference. the X1 I also purchased (mainly to take advantage of free maintenance while I could...and liked the new X1) is a similar price difference.

MSRP on X1 that I purchased in 2016: $43,875
MRSP on same X1 today with warranty to match: $46,434
Difference: $2,559

I've read that BMW sales are down and overtaken by Mercedes, other competitors taking bigger market share. Perhaps they will bring the maintenance plan back. I know I will look elsewhere for my next purchase if they don't.
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  #391  
Old 01-26-2017, 04:30 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Are you certain about your MSRP figures? While I don't know the specifics of these models, the list price of BMWs doesn't typically go up this much from one year to the next, unless there's a meaningful change in equipment level.
I think he threw in the cost of the maintenance plan on the 2017's. I'm good on brakes and I do my own oil changes. So, I don't care one bit about them dialing back on the free maintenance.

You still get one brake fluid change under the three year plan, since the three years of brake fluid life starts when the car is built and the three years of free maintenance starts when the car is bought. BMW's also good about letting you push the brake fluid change forward (earlier than scheduled).

M-B dropped their free maintenance. Lexus and Audi never had it, and are doing fine. I suspect it was people frying their brakes that caused BMW to fall back to only three years of free maintenance. My first BMW had 115k miles on the original brakes when I sold it.

I live 92 miles from my dealer, and I used to work and get paid by the hour, as much or as little as I wanted. With the drive and my time away from work, I figured that a "free" oil change at the dealer cost me about $500. I have access to a lift where I used to work before retirement.
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  #392  
Old 01-26-2017, 04:58 PM
Bimmer4life Bimmer4life is offline
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How did you have 4k in repairs on a 2011?!? That's insane.
I just checked my service receipts and it was actually over $4k as soon as I went out of warranty this happened.

AC blowing hot air, they claimed defective condenser total cost $1690. Then couple weeks later AC still not blowing cold like it should brought it back said it was now the evaporator. I complained about it and they agreed I'd pay a small fee for the evaporator if I agreed to get 4 new run flats (which I needed anyway total cost of evaporator and run flats was $1586. Then a year later my wheel speed sensor went out on 1 tire cost me almost $500. Then a week later another wheel speed sensor went out ABS light and malfunction on my I drive display. They cut me a deal to replace the other 3 for $900.00 to save me from another going out. So yeah over $4k in the past couple yrs out of warranty. I'm ready to trade it in for a new 440i Gran Coupe LCI, tired of spending money for out of warranty repairs.
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  #393  
Old 01-26-2017, 05:53 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
I just checked my service receipts and it was actually over $4k as soon as I went out of warranty this happened.

AC blowing hot air, they claimed defective condenser total cost $1690. Then couple weeks later AC still not blowing cold like it should brought it back said it was now the evaporator. I complained about it and they agreed I'd pay a small fee for the evaporator if I agreed to get 4 new run flats (which I needed anyway total cost of evaporator and run flats was $1586. Then a year later my wheel speed sensor went out on 1 tire cost me almost $500. Then a week later another wheel speed sensor went out ABS light and malfunction on my I drive display. They cut me a deal to replace the other 3 for $900.00 to save me from another going out. So yeah over $4k in the past couple yrs out of warranty. I'm ready to trade it in for a new 440i Gran Coupe LCI, tired of spending money for out of warranty repairs.
My old E39 had AC blowing hot air too, the dealer diagnosed leaky evaporator and asked for $6k fix(including dash tear down), but a trusted indy said a recharge should work for another 2-3 years(and it did) for $200. The car was sold at 100k and 12 years and the new car put another 60k on it in last 4 years, and the evaporator still works, albeit with a 2nd recharge.

That E39 costed $7k out of pocket after warranty(3-yr/36k) including tires up to 12-yr/100k. The last 2 years/20k costed $3k mainly for brakes(both axles) and cooling system preventative work.

My F30 has been out of warranty since Oct. The first problem since warranty expiration is squeaks when trunk is opened/closed. It turns out the springs on both sides are the culprits. The right one, which is accessible through the battery compartment opening, was easily fixed with silicon spray. The left one requires removing trunk trim cover(not fixed yet).

Last edited by namelessman; 01-27-2017 at 12:47 AM.
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  #394  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:09 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
I just checked my service receipts and it was actually over $4k as soon as I went out of warranty this happened.

AC blowing hot air, they claimed defective condenser total cost $1690. Then couple weeks later AC still not blowing cold like it should brought it back said it was now the evaporator. I complained about it and they agreed I'd pay a small fee for the evaporator if I agreed to get 4 new run flats (which I needed anyway total cost of evaporator and run flats was $1586. Then a year later my wheel speed sensor went out on 1 tire cost me almost $500. Then a week later another wheel speed sensor went out ABS light and malfunction on my I drive display. They cut me a deal to replace the other 3 for $900.00 to save me from another going out. So yeah over $4k in the past couple yrs out of warranty. I'm ready to trade it in for a new 440i Gran Coupe LCI, tired of spending money for out of warranty repairs.
AC leaks are usually not in the condenser or evaporator. They're usually in fittings, hoses, or the compressor itself. It sounds like they were "Easter egging" (let's change this.. let's change that... and see what works). By buying a new BMW, presumably from the same dealership, you're condoning and rewarding that behavior.

Refrigerant leak detectors also seem to detect cold air. So, sticking the probe in the AC outlet usually gives an alarm.

Most of my maintenance costs for my E46 were trim problems. But, I had some oil leaks (differential and engine timing chain cover), and a few electrical problems.

Part of making a BMW economical to own in the out years is to have an honest, competent place to work on it.
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  #395  
Old 01-26-2017, 07:25 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
AC leaks are usually not in the condenser or evaporator. They're usually in fittings, hoses, or the compressor itself. It sounds like they were "Easter egging" (let's change this.. let's change that... and see what works). By buying a new BMW, presumably from the same dealership, you're condoning and rewarding that behavior.

Refrigerant leak detectors also seem to detect cold air. So, sticking the probe in the AC outlet usually gives an alarm.

Most of my maintenance costs for my E46 were trim problems. But, I had some oil leaks (differential and engine timing chain cover), and a few electrical problems.

Part of making a BMW economical to own in the out years is to have an honest, competent place to work on it.
Something I think you miss sometimes with your arguments re: this topic is someone's personal perception of 'value' in terms of paying for these cars; whether it is a lease payment, payments on a fast depreciating new or newish car or like the guy paying $4k in 2 years for OOW repairs. That only feels like a cuddly marsupial if you still love the car and want to keep going with it. Otherwise, $4k in repairs on a car you are kind of ready to move on from feels like a raw deal vs paying $150 more a month over 2 years for a brand new car youre excited about.

Yes sure it may be cheaper to drive the same bmw for 12 years and shell out for repairs, but if you are kind of over the car at year 5, car payments and depreciation on something new might feel like a better value. If say over the course of a decade it costs you 400 a month to own a bmw with all costs considered, many might see a $400 per month lease on a new one every 3 years as being a better use of their money. See what I mean?

Do you not see that its all the same in the end? You pay eitjer way

Last edited by Kafkaesque328; 01-26-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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  #396  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:53 PM
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gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Yes sure it may be cheaper to drive the same bmw for 12 years and shell out for repairs, but if you are kind of over the car at year 5, car payments and depreciation on something new might feel like a better value. If say over the course of a decade it costs you 400 a month to own a bmw with all costs considered, many might see a $400 per month lease on a new one every 3 years as being a better use of their money. See what I mean?
Folks with a net worth of $1 million or more may be able to battle the "grizzly bear" of depreciation on a new BMW car purchase or lease and come out relatively unscathed. For most everyone else, it's better to deal with the "koala bear" of maintaining an older BMW car, particularly one acquired as pre-owned.

The extent of "free" maintenance on a new BMW automobile, or even if it's offered at all, doesn't materially affect this.
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  #397  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:27 AM
Bimmer4life Bimmer4life is offline
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While I'm not mechanically inclined, I'm also not stupid. I knew whenI brought it back and they said it's now the evaporator, I let them know they misdiagnosed it and I was not paying for their mistake. I feel good that they cut me a good deal in only paying a nominal charge for the evaporator.

While it was being serviced for the wheel sensors I researched it online and found I could buy the sensors for less than $200.00 and then saw a u tube video on how to install them, so yeah I could have saved over $500.00 doing it myself but like I said I'm not mechanically inclined and my luck I'd get stuck.

The problem I have is I want to trade it for a new one but now that I've spent all this cash on repairs it's hard to not just stay with it for another year or so to get my money's worth on the repair costs. I'm just praying something else costly does not happen. I've already had my I drive screen turn red and go black but it came back after I restarted it a couple hours later.
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  #398  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Something I think you miss sometimes with your arguments re: this topic is someone's personal perception of 'value' in terms of paying for these cars; whether it is a lease payment, payments on a fast depreciating new or newish car or like the guy paying $4k in 2 years for OOW repairs. That only feels like a cuddly marsupial if you still love the car and want to keep going with it. Otherwise, $4k in repairs on a car you are kind of ready to move on from feels like a raw deal vs paying $150 more a month over 2 years for a brand new car youre excited about.

Yes sure it may be cheaper to drive the same bmw for 12 years and shell out for repairs, but if you are kind of over the car at year 5, car payments and depreciation on something new might feel like a better value. If say over the course of a decade it costs you 400 a month to own a bmw with all costs considered, many might see a $400 per month lease on a new one every 3 years as being a better use of their money. See what I mean?

Do you not see that its all the same in the end? You pay eitjer way
I'll admit that your lease strategy (search for a left over from the previous model year, and then expend a lot of effort to get a good lease deal) works. But, I place a higher priority on having the exact car that I want, and on it being delivered new (without paint damage). So, your method doesn't work for me, as my method doesn't work for you.

Yeah, it's fun to have a new car, and people should spend their money on what makes them happy. A friend of mine has a $7k watch. I don't understand that. But, he loves his watch. To each his own. (I don't even have a watch that works. I do have a $70 Seiko stopwatch that I used for tracking the run time of my lawn equipment.)

The $7k watch guy doesn't understand me spending $73k on a car. He drives a used VW TDI. But, he's on the waiting list for it when I sell my car at 100k miles. He has a close friend who owns a very good indy' shop. I don't want a BMW with more than 100k miles. It might still be cost effective to own, but it's not going to be reliable enough for schedule-critical road trips.

I didn't decide to keep my BMW's and other cars 100k+ miles and work backwards to prove that's cost effective. I tracked the data for the last twenty years or so, and then I drew my conclusions based on the data. Actually, when I drove 25k miles/year and drove Japanese econo-boxes, the annual ownership costs were fairly constant. It wouldn't cost much more to replace the cars at 50k miles than at 100k miles. I didn't expect that, but that's what the data consistently showed. But, that only works for high annual mileages and Japanese econo-boxes.

I'll also reiterate what I said above. For the 100k mile plan to work for a BMW, you need to have somebody competent and honest working on your car. I bought my first BMW in Virginia. But, that dealer's service department is horrible. If I lived there and needed them to service me car, I wouldn't keep a BMW past the warranty period. But, out of principle, I wouldn't own a BMW there, period.

I've never said people should do what I do, keep cars 100k miles. What I do say is they should understand and do the math, and make their own decisions. The data I collected has shown that the ownership costs (depreciation, maintenance, capital costs) for a BMW in the first four years and 50k miles are about twice what they are for the second four years and 50k miles.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 01-27-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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  #399  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:20 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
Folks with a net worth of $1 million or more may be able to battle the "grizzly bear" of depreciation on a new BMW car purchase or lease and come out relatively unscathed. For most everyone else, it's better to deal with the "koala bear" of maintaining an older BMW car, particularly one acquired as pre-owned.

The extent of "free" maintenance on a new BMW automobile, or even if it's offered at all, doesn't materially affect this.
$1M isn't what it used to be. Also, pensions are becoming a thing of the past.

Two of the other Bubba's in my lunch posse are millionaires. They hate their jobs and want to retire as soon as possible, age 57. They both currently drive older Japanese SUV, both bought used.

I suspect a lot of the threads here about BMW cutting back on free maintenance are really started by Audi, Lexus, and M-B salesmen masquerading here as BMW owner's.
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  #400  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:22 AM
need4speed's Avatar
need4speed need4speed is offline
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Location: South Carolina
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,495
Mein Auto: 16 435 CV Msport PPK, Q5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
I'll admit that your lease strategy (search for a left over from the previous model year, and then expend a lot of effort to get a good lease deal) works. But, I place a higher priority on having the exact car that I want, and on it being delivered new (without paint damage). So, your method doesn't work for me, as my method doesn't work for you.

Yeah, it's fun to have a new car, and people should spend their money on what makes them happy. A friend of mine has a $7k watch. I don't understand that. But, he loves his watch. To each his own. (I don't even have a watch that works. I do have a $70 Seiko stopwatch that I used for tracking the run time of my lawn equipment.)

The $7k watch guy doesn't understand me spending $73k on a car. He drives a used VW TDI. But, he's on the waiting list for it when I sell my car at 100k miles. He has a close friend who owns a very good indy' shop. I don't want a BMW with more than 100k miles. It might still be cost effective to own, but it's not going to be reliable enough for schedule-critical road trips.

I didn't decide to keep my BMW's and other cars 100k+ miles and work backwards to prove that's cost effective. I tracked the data for the last twenty years or so, and then I drew my conclusions based on the data. Actually, when I drove 25k miles/year and drove Japanese econo-boxes, the annual ownership costs were fairly constant. It wouldn't cost much more to replace the cars at 50k miles than at 100k miles. I didn't expect that, but that's what the data consistently showed. But, that only works for high annual mileages.

I'll also reiterate what I said above. For the 100k mile plan to work for a BMW, you need to have somebody competent and honest working on your car. I bought my first BMW in Virginia. But, that dealer's service department is horrible. If I lived there and needed them to service me car, I wouldn't keep a BMW past the warranty period. But, out of principle, I wouldn't own a BMW there, period.

I've never said people should do what I do, keep cars 100k miles. What I do say is they should understand and do the math, and make their own decisions. The data I collected has shown that the ownership costs (depreciation, maintenance, capital costs) for a BMW in the first four years and 50k miles are about twice what they are for the second four years and 50k miles.
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