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  #3276  
Old 07-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dio///M View Post
The U.S. auto industry is grappling with consumers moving from sedans to SUVs and crossover utility vehicles. Didnít you notice. The trend shifted 5% JUST from 2018 to '19. X3's, X5's are hot items more than ever....

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It will be interesting to see what impact the Model Y has on X3 and X5 sales when it reaches volume production.
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  #3277  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:00 PM
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Perhaps the Model 3 is the BMW CEO killer.


The same article also talks about sales over the last 12 months of BMW versus Tesla in the US. BMW sold a total of 84,467 cars of all types while Tesla sold 184,000 Model 3s alone. Then add in another 22,000 Model Ss and an unknown number of Model Xs, and Tesla seems to be clobbering BMW.
Cleantechnica is the worst source of news. Check your numbers. BMW sold 84k PASSENGER cars and an additional 72k light trucks in the US from JANUARY to JUNE in 2019 YTD!!!


Additionally Kruger left because he was found as a weak leader. News sources, since EV is a popular word, kept saying it's because of EVs. Any article can be sold if it has the Tesla name in it.

You better read this: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/08/...harald-kruger/
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  #3278  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:00 PM
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It's all a matter of context, and from the context of Tesla's statement, my understanding was that they were talking about cars that would be delivered in the next quarter when they referred to the backlog. That said, it is an assumption on my part, so I wouldn't hang my hat on it, but I think there's even less to support your assumption that Tesla was referring to all orders when they said backlog.
Possible.
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  #3279  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:20 PM
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Cleantechnica is the worst source of news. Check your numbers. BMW sold 84k PASSENGER cars and an additional 72k light trucks in the US from JANUARY to JUNE in 2019 YTD!!!


Additionally Kruger left because he was found as a weak leader. News sources, since EV is a popular word, kept saying it's because of EVs. Any article can be sold if it has the Tesla name in it.

You better read this: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/08/...harald-kruger/
I doubt that Cleantechnia is the worst source of news, but they certainly got the BMW car numbers wrong as you indicated. carsalesbase.com seems to be a more reliable. They show a total of 65,871 BMW 3 and 4 series combined US sales compared to 183,600 Tesla Model 3 sales for July 2018 through June 2019.

What's interesting is to go back to July 2015 to June 2016 and check the BMW 3/4 series before the Model 3 had too much of an impact on the market. The combined BMW 3/4 sales were 125,172, so BMW 3/4 series sales have dropped by nearly half since the Tesla Model 3 has entered the market. Coincidence? I don't think so.
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  #3280  
Old 07-10-2019, 03:10 PM
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I doubt that Cleantechnia is the worst source of news, but they certainly got the BMW car numbers wrong as you indicated. carsalesbase.com seems to be a more reliable. They show a total of 65,871 BMW 3 and 4 series combined US sales compared to 183,600 Tesla Model 3 sales for July 2018 through June 2019.

What's interesting is to go back to July 2015 to June 2016 and check the BMW 3/4 series before the Model 3 had too much of an impact on the market. The combined BMW 3/4 sales were 125,172, so BMW 3/4 series sales have dropped by nearly half since the Tesla Model 3 has entered the market. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Yes, and then check the X1, X2 and X3 sales and you will see the trend matching the US market trend, people moving from sedans to SUVs. Also this is the last year for the F30 model.



Ok. I mean Cleantechnica is very biased towards Tesla.

About Zachary Shahan, Site Director
"Zach has long-term investments in TSLA..."

https://cleantechnica.com/author/zshahan/


I appreciate though that he is open about it.


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  #3281  
Old 07-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by acoste View Post
Yes, and then check the X1, X2 and X3 sales and you will see the trend matching the US market trend, people moving from sedans to SUVs. Also this is the last year for the F30 model.



Ok. I mean Cleantechnica is very biased towards Tesla.

About Zachary Shahan, Site Director
"Zach has long-term investments in TSLA..."

https://cleantechnica.com/author/zshahan/


I appreciate though that he is open about it.


SUVs have definitely been hot in the market the last few years.
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It will be interesting to see what impact the Model Y has on X3 and X5 sales when it reaches volume production.
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  #3282  
Old 07-10-2019, 04:20 PM
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Yes, and then check the X1, X2 and X3 sales and you will see the trend matching the US market trend, people moving from sedans to SUVs. Also this is the last year for the F30 model.
X3 and X5 do eat into 3-series sales(esp. last year of F30), and the same probably will be true of Model Y versus Model 3 when Y is available.

And X3 and X5 do beat up Model X too.
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  #3283  
Old 07-10-2019, 04:29 PM
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X3 and X5 do eat into 3-series sales(esp. last year of F30), and the same probably will be true of Model Y versus Model 3 when Y is available.



And X3 and X5 do beat up Model X too.


Model X is pretty much a 100K vehicle. It also hasnít really been refreshed since introduction.


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  #3284  
Old 07-11-2019, 11:26 AM
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Ä280 for tire alignment... I could be a bit cynical, but that's quite absurd.


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  #3285  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:08 PM
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Ä280 for tire alignment... I could be a bit cynical, but that's quite absurd.


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It was not 280 Euros it was like $260 USD.

And the price is probably comparable and potentially less than what it would cost if you blew out a couple of 20" rims and tires on a BMW M3 or M4.
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  #3286  
Old 07-17-2019, 11:31 PM
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A Model 3 AWD owner at work had struggled with fixing squeaks and rattles since new, and sold recently at a huge loss to get ready for the G20 330e hybrid. He said he was tired to get beaten up by other Tesla fanatics who tried to silence his complaints.
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  #3287  
Old Yesterday, 12:07 AM
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A Model 3 AWD owner at work had struggled with fixing squeaks and rattles since new, and sold recently at a huge loss to get ready for the G20 330e hybrid. He said he was tired to get beaten up by other Tesla fanatics who tried to silence his complaints.
That sounds ridiculous. Did he join a Tesla club, go to a meeting, complain about his car and get assaulted? That would seem rather unlikely. Or is he talking about voluntarily participating in social media with a bunch of Tesla enthusiasts who didn't like him complaining about his car? If so, I think he has bigger problems than a squeaky or rattly car.
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  #3288  
Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM
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A Model 3 AWD owner at work had struggled with fixing squeaks and rattles since new, and sold recently at a huge loss to get ready for the G20 330e hybrid. He said he was tired to get beaten up by other Tesla fanatics who tried to silence his complaints.
Well it's sure good that he has your shoulder to cry on during this trying time. Finding a fellow Tesla hater can be really hard in Commiefornia.

You know, I've had a disproportionate amount of problems with my car and it's still the best car I've ever owned or driven. It would be nearly impossible for me to go back to buying a pedestrian gas burner after experiencing the joy of driving a high performance pure electric power train.
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  #3289  
Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
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Well it's sure good that he has your shoulder to cry on during this trying time. Finding a fellow Tesla hater can be really hard in Commiefornia.

You know, I've had a disproportionate amount of problems with my car and it's still the best car I've ever owned or driven. It would be nearly impossible for me to go back to buying a pedestrian gas burner after experiencing the joy of driving a high performance pure electric power train.
Being both fellow TSLA owners since early days, this coworker and I had our shares of being labeled Tesla fanatics for 9+ years, it is just ironic that the new breed of Tesla owners start labeling clear-headed folks like us as Tesla haters.
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  #3290  
Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM
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My brother has his Model 3 and fits squarely into the militant Tesla cult that they are the finest things in the history of the world and any criticism should be met with a stay at a re-education camp.

I drove his and it was pretty cool, he has the extended range RWD so it is certainly not near the fastest of them but still really fun. It was quiet, it handled well, the powertrain was a hoot and I liked the car a great deal. The new $55k price on the performance model is tempting but I can't get over the fact the interior just plain sucks at the price point.

I also like mechanical things, exhaust sounds, and bells and whistles in the interior, especially if I am dropping over $50k.

My complaints were that the build quality was not up to industry standard (my brother has had several issues, the largest was a cracked glass roof two weeks into ownership) and the interior is of decent materials, but makes a GTI look like a luxury car. If they build a nice interior at the price point, I would buy one. Otherwise, the drivetrain is not enough in and of itself to merit a purchase when something like a C43 AMG exists in the same price range. The pampering of that interior over a big screen bolted to the dash just does not even exist in the same universe.

If you say that in my brother's presence he wants you burned at the stake as a heretic.

I like my BMW but it has several issues (timing chain guides made by trained monkeys, poor quality interior materials in the class) and if someone brings them up I would say "Fair point." If you criticize a Tesla in front of a cult member, watch out for the fireworks. They take it PERSONALLY.
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  #3291  
Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM
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My brother has his Model 3 and fits squarely into the militant Tesla cult that they are the finest things in the history of the world and any criticism should be met with a stay at a re-education camp.

I drove his and it was pretty cool, he has the extended range RWD so it is certainly not near the fastest of them but still really fun. It was quiet, it handled well, the powertrain was a hoot and I liked the car a great deal. The new $55k price on the performance model is tempting but I can't get over the fact the interior just plain sucks at the price point.

I also like mechanical things, exhaust sounds, and bells and whistles in the interior, especially if I am dropping over $50k.

My complaints were that the build quality was not up to industry standard (my brother has had several issues, the largest was a cracked glass roof two weeks into ownership) and the interior is of decent materials, but makes a GTI look like a luxury car. If they build a nice interior at the price point, I would buy one. Otherwise, the drivetrain is not enough in and of itself to merit a purchase when something like a C43 AMG exists in the same price range. The pampering of that interior over a big screen bolted to the dash just does not even exist in the same universe.

If you say that in my brother's presence he wants you burned at the stake as a heretic.

I like my BMW but it has several issues (timing chain guides made by trained monkeys, poor quality interior materials in the class) and if someone brings them up I would say "Fair point." If you criticize a Tesla in front of a cult member, watch out for the fireworks. They take it PERSONALLY.


Lol. I have criticized my Tesla and Tesla in general a TON including in this thread.

Thereís an enormous difference between criticism of Tesla and irrational hatred of Tesla which tons of people have.


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  #3292  
Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM
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Lol. I have criticized my Tesla and Tesla in general a TON including in this thread.

There's an enormous difference between criticism of Tesla and irrational hatred of Tesla which tons of people have.


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Oh I am not saying all Tesla owners are members of the cult, far from that. Only suggesting those cult members exist and are very serious about Tesla conquering the world as we know it. My brother belongs to the cult.
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  #3293  
Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
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Lol. I have criticized my Tesla and Tesla in general a TON including in this thread.

There's an enormous difference between criticism of Tesla and irrational hatred of Tesla which tons of people have.
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Originally Posted by jwalz1 View Post
Oh I am not saying all Tesla owners are members of the cult, far from that. Only suggesting those cult members exist and are very serious about Tesla conquering the world as we know it. My brother belongs to the cult.
Both true statements.

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  #3294  
Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM
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*duplicate* Tapatalk sucks.

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  #3295  
Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM
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Oh I am not saying all Tesla owners are members of the cult, far from that. Only suggesting those cult members exist and are very serious about Tesla conquering the world as we know it. My brother belongs to the cult.
I've encountered far fewer die hard Tesla cultists than those who irrationally hate Teslas or EVs in general.

Perhaps that ratio is different in different parts of the US.

Namelessman says he owns TSLA stock or did own TSLA stock and he has pretty much bashed them continuously. Recommending a crappy hydrogen fuel cell car that you can't even own (can only lease) is the icing on the cake. He used to say he was upset Tesla wasn't offering the less expensive version of the car but he's had to shift to new arguments now that the $36,500 version is shipping and is more capable than anyone could have hoped for (has full interior, has the nice glass roof, has the full size touchscreen, etc.).

Acoste claims to work in the automotive industry and pretty much makes things up and spreads misinformation on a weekly basis.
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  #3296  
Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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..... ^^and then there's that overfamiliar, savvy euro boob that cavaliers himself around here on occasion!
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  #3297  
Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
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Acoste claims to work in the automotive industry and pretty much makes things up and spreads misinformation on a weekly basis.
Please name one.
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  #3298  
Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
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Please name one.
Oh I can do better than "one".

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste
Backlog? You mean orders that contain Model Y as well ...
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste
Maxwell doesn't bring a new chemistry, just a new method which certainly helps. But unless Tesla gets into solid state batteries, it will fall...
Wrong.
Quote:
It's anticipated that Tesla is mostly interested in the dry electrode technology for batteries, which could enable it to develop its own battery cells that are highly durable and with high energy density (300 Wh/kg with hope for growth towards 500 Wh/kg in the future).
That's called "new battery chemistry".

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want a Tesla as it has the worst reliability, worst service department and the company uses the owners as guinea pigs and a checking account in the self driving system development.
Lies and or slander.

Yeah, I think you don't want to keep beating this drum acoste, wipe the egg off of your face first.

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  #3299  
Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Namelessman says he owns TSLA stock or did own TSLA stock and he has pretty much bashed them continuously. Recommending a crappy hydrogen fuel cell car that you can't even own (can only lease) is the icing on the cake. He used to say he was upset Tesla wasn't offering the less expensive version of the car but he's had to shift to new arguments now that the $36,500 version is shipping and is more capable than anyone could have hoped for (has full interior, has the nice glass roof, has the full size touchscreen, etc.).
My views of Tesla and Model 3 are quite consistent esp. from a TSLA owner perspective, e.g. when some Tesla owners got too exuberant, then it was time to re-adjust. It turned out the assessments were spot-on and lots of money and time were saved for those clear headed folks(e.g. savings from price drops, time saved without dealing with quality issues, etc, et).

Hydrogen offerings being crappy or not are relative, and icing on the cake really is that a Tesla owner like yourself with zero experience with hydrogen(by your own admission) starts bashing hydrogen.
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  #3300  
Old Yesterday, 01:23 PM
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My views of Tesla and Model 3 are quite consistent esp. from a TSLA owner perspective, e.g. when some Tesla owners got too exuberant, then it was time to re-adjust. It turned out the assessments were spot-on and lots of money and time were saved for those clear headed folks(e.g. savings from price drops, time saved without dealing with quality issues, etc, et).

Hydrogen offerings being crappy or not are relative, and icing on the cake really is that a Tesla owner like yourself with zero experience with hydrogen(by your own admission) starts bashing hydrogen.
Yes you have been very wise indeed. You are still driving a crappy nearly 8 year old F30 and I'm still driving a new Tesla. My overpaying and quality issues with my car don't change the reality I wouldn't change places.

Hydrogen and you fawning at it after your non stop criticism of Tesla (not EVs in general since you've marveled at gems like the Nissan Leaf) is solid gold. Hydrogen has problems compared to EV like my grandmother has memory problems compared to me.

Hydrogen... what a failed laugh of a technology for consumers now that you can buy battery cars with 300 mile range that charge in 20 minutes.

I don't have to drive a car that is powered by monkey farts to know that it sucks either.

I'll put it this way, Colorado (where I live) is extremely environmental and alternative fuel friendly and Hydrogen hasn't even made a DENT here.

Here's the Colorado .gov page list of "hydrogen coalition accomplishments" that hasn't been updated since 2014;

Quote:
Kroger's 120 fuel cell-powered forklifts at a Stapleton warehouse.
CableLabs' Louisville headquarters uses an 8-kw fuel cell backup system.
Colorado Springs Federal Aviation Administration uses a fuel cell backup system to power a remote transmitter/receiver.
Multi-wellhead sites in western Colorado are use fuel cells to power chemical injection pumps.
Wow!

Compare that with the fact that there are over 5,000 more pure EVs on Colorado roads than were on the road 12 months ago and it becomes apparent that hydrogen fuel cells are dead on arrival until and unless they have some major tech breakthrough.

Not to mention that you have to manufacture the Hydrogen, you have to transport the Hydrogen, Hydrogen is flammable, Hydrogen is hard to detect when it is burning, Hydrogen flames are hard to know if you are near since they cause UV burns where gasoline flames would cause physical burns, etc.

Hydrogen makes no sense to me outside of possible use for applications like long haul trucking or military applications.... but yes you were right about Tesla slashing prices (even though they apparently have no demand problem) so maybe you're right about Hydrogen, get back to this thread in a few years and let's see.

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