Would a bad crank position sensor give O2 sensor control limit error - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-21-2020, 04:03 PM
bluelectron bluelectron is offline
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Would a bad crank position sensor give O2 sensor control limit error

I have been having a recurring crank position sensor problem on my 1997 523i (Euro spec 2.5L engine). I replaced the sensor about a month ago and the car was starting and running fine until yesterday. Last evening I felt the power was down again and checked the codes using a Peake Research R5 scanner. I go the following error code

53 Crankshaft sensor
CA O2 sensor control limit, Cyl 1-3
CB O2 sensor control limit, Cyl 4-6

I took the car to an Indy mechanic today and they confirmed the same codes. However, I asked to do a smoke test before changing the crank sensor.

My question is would a bad Crankshaft sensor cause O2 control limit errors. They seemed to believe it would. Before replacing the crank sensor the car would not start. It starts fine now.

I read that the quality of the crank sensor makes a huge difference. I am finding it difficult to get genuine BMW crank sensor for a Euro spec car in Canada.
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:16 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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The codes are not related.

Sounds like a massive vacuum leak (unless the fuel trims are negative).

If the crank sensor was bad, the car would not start, as you observed before replacing the sensor.
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Last edited by edjack; 01-21-2020 at 05:17 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:30 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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ah yeah it could...

when the engine is out of time.. the firing it off the mixture is wrong and the result is the o2's catching that downstream

When ever doing a diag process tree you must trouble shoot the a primary codes before you do the seconday codes

more then likely what you have is a timing event, being captured as the crank code, and the result effect is out of mixture

you will need a better scan tool to confirm..

also live data... But what your asking is possible
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:35 PM
blackslcchild blackslcchild is offline
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So you replaced the crank sensor but itís not a good brand or bmw oem?


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  #5  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:13 PM
bluelectron bluelectron is offline
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The mechanic performed a smoke test and confirmed there were no vacuum leaks.

They claim to have fixed the problem with a crank position senor that costs $200+ .

As I mentioned the car is Euro spec and the sensor is not the same as the ones on North American cars. ECS tuning had a sensor for this car and I replaced it with that. $15 sensor + $40 shipping to Canada .
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:19 AM
edjack edjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
ah yeah it could...

when the engine is out of time.. the firing it off the mixture is wrong and the result is the o2's catching that downstream

When ever doing a diag process tree you must trouble shoot the a primary codes before you do the seconday codes

more then likely what you have is a timing event, being captured as the crank code, and the result effect is out of mixture

you will need a better scan tool to confirm..

also live data... But what your asking is possible
I was under the impression that, if the crank sensor was bad, the engine would not start.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:24 AM
bluelectron bluelectron is offline
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Originally Posted by edjack View Post
I was under the impression that, if the crank sensor was bad, the engine would not start.
I was under the same impression because the car did not start with the previous bad sensor. But it was starting now but would not idle well and was really down on power.

If there is not signal from the sensor the ECU does not pump fuel during cranking. However, if there is signal but the signal quality is poor the car starts but timing is off.

The car seems to be running fine now with a $200 sensor. I am hoping it stays this way.
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:11 AM
edjack edjack is offline
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Certainly possible. If the sensor were of poor quality, the output signal could be intermittent.
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:28 AM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
I was under the impression that, if the crank sensor was bad, the engine would not start.

not always
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:38 PM
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^^^ what he said...sensor being bad isnt always a black or white issue, theres a lot of gray area in between.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:01 PM
djbecker djbecker is offline
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If you are getting an erratic signal, the error would be logged.

But it's very unlikely to cause the air/fuel ratio to exceed the controllable limit. That is very likely an air leak. It might possibly be low fuel pressure, but that would be much further down on the list.

Is this a regular M52 single VANOS iron block engine? What was the part number for the crank position sensor? Is it a three pin or four pin sensor? Does your car have an adapter cable to use the updated M52tu sensor?


12141744492
12141709616
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:17 AM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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except he already had a OEm sensor installed and the problem was fixed.......

really... if you guys want to get technical...

you can always just view the waveform thru a oscilloscope.. and thee whole conversation about if it can be possible is null

Im telling you very indirectly with out shouting at you.. that its possible

further more.. there is no golden promise that you get code that reflects thee actual problem

when you are running lean... doesnt mean you get a lean code

when your mis fireing... the big difference is with or with out cut off

If the op would have never mentioned anything about the crank sensor in the Original post... the diag tree would have been different


case and point.. I fought a lean code bank 1 and 2 for 5 years, if i would have listened to your recommendation i would have wasted money on 02 sensors : it was a maf sensor... and had nothing to do with the 02 sensors

BUT the code said O2 sensors out of range..... here we are 10 years later with the same o2's running perfectly
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:55 AM
djbecker djbecker is offline
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Yes, "sensor control limit" or other out-of-range descriptions means that the ECU can't control the air-fuel ratio as it expects.
The ECU won't post that error unless it's pretty sure that the oxygen sensor is working. You are "shooting the messenger" if you replace the oxygen sensors based on those errors.

I don't think that there is an "European" crank sensor. Rather there was an update for the U.S. (and perhaps Canada) that replaced the original sensor with the newer design from the M52tu because the engines were failing emissions checks when the sensor went flaky. In the U.S. emissions-related equipment gets an extended warranty. BMW would normally exclude parts such as crank sensor from warranty coverage, but a pattern of failing emissions is a big deal.
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:49 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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lol except he already fixed the problem by replacing the crank position sensor
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:33 PM
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Original poster should list the 1997 BMW European Crank Sensor part #, I would have.
BTW, I had a 1994 SHO Taurus, I had to replace the crank sensor twice in the 8 years I owned it. Car would cough, stall, shut down for a few minutes to an hour then start up and drive fine for a day/week/whatever until it decided to do it again, never a code. What a pain in the arse that thing was to replace.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:35 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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i remember that motor well..... what a blast to drive
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
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i remember that motor well..... what a blast to drive
Yes it was, that engine would just pull and pull. Always wished it was a rear wheel drive, that would have been really cool.
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