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E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #151  
Old 08-18-2015, 04:59 PM
boss22 boss22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine0369 View Post
Why don't you leave it in your car with a charger on it?
I replaced my battery with a Magnacharge group 49 and registered it with BMW logger. Now my remote works from a further distance.
I connected a 12 volt battery with jumper cables to the from posts while I changed the one in the trunk; it kept all my settings.

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I wish I can do that if I have a garage. I don't have a garage to leave the car in with my battery tender hooked up to the battery. I am thinking to pull the battery out and bring it to my basement, charge it full then leave it like this for the time I am off.

I dont care about settings, I can set it up all over when I get back. I heard that BMW's don't like sitting with disconnected battery and I'd like to verify is this a true statement.
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  #152  
Old 12-07-2015, 02:14 PM
2fast4 2fast4 is offline
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Originally Posted by sshobby View Post
I recently got a 2008 535xi. The clock kept resetting, so I picked up an Everstart Maxx H8 900 CCA battery from Walmart, (made by Johnson Controls), installed it, and then realized that it had to be coded.

While learning about coding, I realized that there is no good information about the aH for this battery. There is some speculation, and it has resulted in this battery being not-recommeded by various BMW forums. I called both Walmart help line, and JC. Calling Walmart results in them saying that they don't give out the information about aH. Calling Johnson Controls results in them saying that Walmart owns the information for that model and they can't give it out. The internet forums suggest that its 80ah, which I believe is wrong.

Assumiing that Johnson controls does not make a separate battery for Walmart, but just rebrands their model, I found this link that shows the specs for Johnson Control AGM batteries:

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/conte...eet_101212.pdf

According to the flyer, the JC group 49/H8/LN5 battery has 900 CCA, 160min RC, 95ah. The Walmart H8 battery has the same 900 CCA, suggesting to me that they are likely the same battery.

I still have to get this coded. I have INPA and NCS Expert running, but all the instructions I've found so far don't give blow-by-blow guidance for a first timer.

Update: I think I found the procedure to replace with an aftermarket battery:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...0&d=1329707988

Samir
I also need correct Ah value. I coded my new Walmart Maxx H8 for 80Ah, but seeing it could be 95Ah based on the PDF from JC. Does anyone know this?
I guess coding it for 80Ah for now can't hurt it vs if coding it above 95Ah.
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  #153  
Old 05-06-2016, 12:57 PM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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I've looked over these forums regarding new battery installation and registration fairly extensively, but I still have one question I can't seem to find the answer to;

Is it necessary to registered the new battery if you have the IBS disconnected?

I recently installed a Duralast H8-AGM into the car. The previous owner had the IBS disconnected claiming it can cause parasitic draw and has been known to cause other issues. It is my understanding the the IBS MUST BE CONNECTED when registering a new battery, which leads me to believe that if I intend to keep the IBS off the battery, registering the battery is unnecessary and frankly, wont work.

Thoughts and comments about not having the IBS connected, and the need to register a new battery if I don't have this connected??? Should I connect the IBS, register the battery, then take it back off?

Thanks in advance.
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  #154  
Old 05-06-2016, 12:57 PM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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I've looked over these forums regarding new battery installation and registration fairly extensively, but I still have one question I can't seem to find the answer to;

Is it necessary to registered the new battery if you have the IBS disconnected?

I recently installed a Duralast H8-AGM into the car. The previous owner had the IBS disconnected claiming it can cause parasitic draw and has been known to cause other issues. It is my understanding the the IBS MUST BE CONNECTED when registering a new battery, which leads me to believe that if I intend to keep the IBS off the battery, registering the battery is unnecessary and frankly, wont work.

Thoughts and comments about not having the IBS connected, and the need to register a new battery if I don't have this connected??? Should I connect the IBS, register the battery, then take it back off?

Thanks in advance.
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  #155  
Old 05-06-2016, 12:58 PM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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.

Last edited by GreenMTNE60; 05-06-2016 at 01:00 PM. Reason: deletion
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  #156  
Old 05-06-2016, 12:59 PM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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"JayArras
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The answer is yes unless the replacement battery was an exact match spec-wise (i.e. battery type, CCA, etc. The IBS doesn't really enter into the equation.
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Well the whole reason for registering the battery is so your car knows its a new battery and to change it's settings to charge it accordingly using information from via the IBS, correct?.

So I'm not sure how the IBS wouldn't be part of the equation.

************************************

"The IBS contains a micro-processor that is used to monitor/measure various battery conditions such as:

Terminal voltage via measurement from B+ to Gnd
Charge/discharge current via integrated shunt resistor
Temperature of battery acid via integrated temp sensor

Intelligent Battery Sensor

The IBS is able to withstand thermal loads up to 105C, the chemical effects of the battery acid.

IBS MEASURING/EVALUATION FUNCTION
The measuring/evaluation function of the IBS electronics, continuously measures the following values under all vehicle operating conditions:

Voltage (6V to 16.5V)
Current (200A to +200A)
Closed Circuit Current (0A to 10A)
Starting Current (0A to 1000A)
Temperature (-40C to 105C)

************************************************** ****

Thank you though for your input. Anyone else wanna chime in? Also still looking to see if anyone has objections/reasons why I shouldn't operate the car with the IBS disconnected.[/QUOTE]

Last edited by GreenMTNE60; 05-06-2016 at 01:01 PM. Reason: edits
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  #157  
Old 05-06-2016, 02:01 PM
njlou njlou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMTNE60 View Post
I've looked over these forums regarding new battery installation and registration fairly extensively, but I still have one question I can't seem to find the answer to;

Is it necessary to registered the new battery if you have the IBS disconnected?

I recently installed a Duralast H8-AGM into the car. The previous owner had the IBS disconnected claiming it can cause parasitic draw and has been known to cause other issues. It is my understanding the the IBS MUST BE CONNECTED when registering a new battery, which leads me to believe that if I intend to keep the IBS off the battery, registering the battery is unnecessary and frankly, wont work.

Thoughts and comments about not having the IBS connected, and the need to register a new battery if I don't have this connected??? Should I connect the IBS, register the battery, then take it back off?

Thanks in advance.
The IBS must be connected while registering the system. You are not registering the battery, you are registering entire computer/battery/charging system. We are talking computers here!!, so the entire system must be connected to the car, and operating.
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  #158  
Old 05-06-2016, 02:15 PM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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Originally Posted by njlou View Post
The IBS must be connected while registering the system. You are not registering the battery, you are registering entire computer/battery/charging system. We are talking computers here!!, so the entire system must be connected to the car, and operating.
Thank you,

Are there detrimental effects to not having the IBS connected? Other than the battery not lasting as long?
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  #159  
Old 05-06-2016, 11:04 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
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The ECU ONLY is what is updated when you program or register the battery. The battery has no microprocessor and the IBS is a rather rudimentary processor and sensor combination, designed to hold a small amount of data while the engine is off and the ECU is shutdown, and is unaffected during programming.

The main purpose of the IBS is to allow the ECU to safely vary the system voltage based upon the perceived need to recharge the battery. If the battery is very low on charge the ECU will set a higher target system voltage for the voltage regulator contained in the alternator to get the battery recharged quickly. This is compared to older car electrical systems which typically set a fixed system voltage of between 13.9V and 14.2V, and recharged batteries at a fixed rate.

The IBS is usually disconnected if it has become moisture damaged (early E60s from 2003 to 2006 were not sealed properly and are prone to failure). The IBS contains an internal function allowing it to wake up the ECU in the event that after engine shutdown there is excessive battery drain and allows the ECU to shut down certain power consumers on the electrical system via a relay to preserve the battery charge. The wake up function is designed to be performed only once. But moisture damaged IBS can repeatedly wake the ECU which can quickly drain the battery.

Raising the system voltage can be detrimental to battery life if the temperature of the battery acid during accelerated charging reaches the boiling point. Water in the acid solution will boil away, and in a sealed battery cannot be replenished and will adversely affect battery life. Before computerized charging systems this was a common occurrence in car batteries and why an important part of battery maintenance was checking cell acid solution levels and adding distilled water as needed to prevent the cell charging plates from being exposed. The IBS with its built-in acid temperature monitor (actually measures the temperature of the negative terminal) can signal the ECU to back down the system voltage when the temperature begins to approach boiling.

An additional issue is the sensitivity of AGM batteries to voltage. AGM batteries should never be charged with a voltage exceeding 14.8V or they can be damaged, whereas the older FLA style can easily accept 15.5V or more for a short period. This is the most important function of programming the ECU for the battery. Telling the ECU if the battery is an AGM type will prevent the ECU from ever telling the voltage regulator to exceed 14.8V during accelerated charging.

When the IBS fails or is disconnected the ECU senses that it can gain no information regarding battery health or acid temperature and defaults to a fixed system voltage of just over 14V (like older style charging systems). This may have a minor effect on battery life as during long highway trips when the battery becomes fully charged there is the opportunity for an IBS enabled charging system to lower the system voltage even further (down into the mid 13s) to prevent overcharging the battery, but it won't be substantial for most owners.

Other than preventing overcharging an AGM type battery with a voltage greater than 14.8V, there is really no magic to battery registration and no measurable increase in battery life.

I had the opportunity to measure battery charging voltages long term before battery replacement (dealer replacement of FLA type with AGM and registration) and after replacement of that AGM battery when it died 3.5 years later with another AGM battery I installed with no registration. I saw no change in normal system voltage over time and certainly have seen no over-charging of the new battery, as is the claim that BMW always makes in favor of registration.

I have a OBDII cable and run both DIS and INPA regularly for diagnostics, and could register the battery myself, but as it is already properly registered to an AGM type battery I don't feel the need.

Moral of the story - If an FLA type battery is registered, don't replace it with an AGM type battery without registering the AGM type afterwards. Other than that, registration is only a great way to keep your dealer making money.
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  #160  
Old 05-07-2016, 01:52 PM
acefuture acefuture is offline
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^^^ This is the clearest explanation I have ever read of what the IBS, charging system and battery registration actually does. Thank you.

( I should add that I am just an owner and fan, not a BMW technician/mechanic)
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  #161  
Old 05-07-2016, 06:05 PM
TX550 TX550 is offline
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Bimmerfan, thanks for the awesome explanation!!!

It's funny the IBS is being brought up as my car has been giving me a high batter drain warning on startup obsessionally. I've had to reset the time and date about 4 or 5 different times over the past three weeks because of it. I have no idea if it's something like the IBS or just my car being needy since I really haven't taken her on a significant drive in awhile.
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  #162  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:42 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
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Greetings TX550!

Check that your battery cables are tight.

IBS failure is possible, but the IBS was fairly well insulated by 2008. You can disconnect it for a few weeks to see if the battery drain goes away.

If you are handy with a multimeter or have a plug in voltmeter, monitor your alternator output as it may not be fully charging the battery. My VR went bad at about eight years so you are entering that window of failure.

The 5-series does use a lot of power and each start drains the battery significantly. A nice long drive may correct your problems. Alternately you can use a battery tender to keep the battery safely "topped off" with a full charge. Leaving the battery undercharged long term will shorten its life significantly (battery plates coated with sulphate crystals) and depending upon your battery's age you may have already reached that point.
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  #163  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:56 PM
TX550 TX550 is offline
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Thanks for your reply bimmer!

I plan to give everything a once over tomorrow. My battery is about 1.5 years old and it was replaced by my indy so it got the full registration treatment. In the mornings, it will sometimes crank longer than normal.

If it was the VR/alternator giving up, would I be getting any other error codes? When my previous battery was tapping out, odd things would happen like the radio cutting out, the SOS button flashing, etc.
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  #164  
Old 05-08-2016, 03:38 AM
cmyachtie cmyachtie is offline
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Originally Posted by GreenMTNE60 View Post
Thank you,

Are there detrimental effects to not having the IBS connected? Other than the battery not lasting as long?
Unless I missed it you did not state wether or not you replaced an AGM or an FLA with your recent Duralast battery. If you were previously running a non AGM, doing registration (or rather coding with NCSEXPER) would be recommended as you will kill your new battery soon.
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2004 545i.... Aux+SB Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. Coded+BT streaming MOD.Added. And the "mschumpert Trunk lid hack". Replaced TCU with a 2007 version that works!
1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black non DSP. SOLD @348Kkms.
My previous rides worth mentioning:1970 GTO "The Judge",1985 325e M3lite, Euro BMW +
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  #165  
Old 05-08-2016, 01:14 PM
squidzilla squidzilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan52 View Post
The ECU ONLY is what is updated when you program or register the battery. The battery has no microprocessor and the IBS is a rather rudimentary processor and sensor combination, designed to hold a small amount of data while the engine is off and the ECU is shutdown, and is unaffected during programming.

The main purpose of the IBS is to allow the ECU to safely vary the system voltage based upon the perceived need to recharge the battery. If the battery is very low on charge the ECU will set a higher target system voltage for the voltage regulator contained in the alternator to get the battery recharged quickly. This is compared to older car electrical systems which typically set a fixed system voltage of between 13.9V and 14.2V, and recharged batteries at a fixed rate.

The IBS is usually disconnected if it has become moisture damaged (early E60s from 2003 to 2006 were not sealed properly and are prone to failure). The IBS contains an internal function allowing it to wake up the ECU in the event that after engine shutdown there is excessive battery drain and allows the ECU to shut down certain power consumers on the electrical system via a relay to preserve the battery charge. The wake up function is designed to be performed only once. But moisture damaged IBS can repeatedly wake the ECU which can quickly drain the battery.

Raising the system voltage can be detrimental to battery life if the temperature of the battery acid during accelerated charging reaches the boiling point. Water in the acid solution will boil away, and in a sealed battery cannot be replenished and will adversely affect battery life. Before computerized charging systems this was a common occurrence in car batteries and why an important part of battery maintenance was checking cell acid solution levels and adding distilled water as needed to prevent the cell charging plates from being exposed. The IBS with its built-in acid temperature monitor (actually measures the temperature of the negative terminal) can signal the ECU to back down the system voltage when the temperature begins to approach boiling.

An additional issue is the sensitivity of AGM batteries to voltage. AGM batteries should never be charged with a voltage exceeding 14.8V or they can be damaged, whereas the older FLA style can easily accept 15.5V or more for a short period. This is the most important function of programming the ECU for the battery. Telling the ECU if the battery is an AGM type will prevent the ECU from ever telling the voltage regulator to exceed 14.8V during accelerated charging.

When the IBS fails or is disconnected the ECU senses that it can gain no information regarding battery health or acid temperature and defaults to a fixed system voltage of just over 14V (like older style charging systems). This may have a minor effect on battery life as during long highway trips when the battery becomes fully charged there is the opportunity for an IBS enabled charging system to lower the system voltage even further (down into the mid 13s) to prevent overcharging the battery, but it won't be substantial for most owners.

Other than preventing overcharging an AGM type battery with a voltage greater than 14.8V, there is really no magic to battery registration and no measurable increase in battery life.

I had the opportunity to measure battery charging voltages long term before battery replacement (dealer replacement of FLA type with AGM and registration) and after replacement of that AGM battery when it died 3.5 years later with another AGM battery I installed with no registration. I saw no change in normal system voltage over time and certainly have seen no over-charging of the new battery, as is the claim that BMW always makes in favor of registration.

I have a OBDII cable and run both DIS and INPA regularly for diagnostics, and could register the battery myself, but as it is already properly registered to an AGM type battery I don't feel the need.

Moral of the story - If an FLA type battery is registered, don't replace it with an AGM type battery without registering the AGM type afterwards. Other than that, registration is only a great way to keep your dealer making money.
Thanks for this. I have an FLA right now in my 545i. Bought from the dealer back in 2010 for almost 500.00 installed. It is the white Exide battery.

I am going to use a Walmart FLA H8 and not register it. I was told that I need to put a trickle charger to to keep my car from losing its settings. Where do I put the charger? I was going to put 2amps at the jump starting connections under the hood. Is that right?
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  #166  
Old 05-08-2016, 07:25 PM
cmyachtie cmyachtie is offline
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Originally Posted by squidzilla View Post
Thanks for this. I have an FLA right now in my 545i. Bought from the dealer back in 2010 for almost 500.00 installed. It is the white Exide battery.

I am going to use a Walmart FLA H8 and not register it. I was told that I need to put a trickle charger to to keep my car from losing its settings. Where do I put the charger? I was going to put 2amps at the jump starting connections under the hood. Is that right?
No need for that, the only settings you might loose are the time and date in your iDrive and that's easy to set.
__________________

My current daily driver:
2004 545i.... Aux+SB Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. Coded+BT streaming MOD.Added. And the "mschumpert Trunk lid hack". Replaced TCU with a 2007 version that works!
1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black non DSP. SOLD @348Kkms.
My previous rides worth mentioning:1970 GTO "The Judge",1985 325e M3lite, Euro BMW +
1998 mTech 323Ti, in Munich, Germany on the autobahn for 1 yr
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  #167  
Old 05-09-2016, 06:38 AM
GreenMTNE60 GreenMTNE60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan52 View Post
The ECU ONLY is what is updated when you program or register the battery. The battery has no microprocessor and the IBS is a rather rudimentary processor and sensor combination, designed to hold a small amount of data while the engine is off and the ECU is shutdown, and is unaffected during programming.

The main purpose of the IBS is to allow the ECU to safely vary the system voltage based upon the perceived need to recharge the battery. If the battery is very low on charge the ECU will set a higher target system voltage for the voltage regulator contained in the alternator to get the battery recharged quickly. This is compared to older car electrical systems which typically set a fixed system voltage of between 13.9V and 14.2V, and recharged batteries at a fixed rate.

The IBS is usually disconnected if it has become moisture damaged (early E60s from 2003 to 2006 were not sealed properly and are prone to failure). The IBS contains an internal function allowing it to wake up the ECU in the event that after engine shutdown there is excessive battery drain and allows the ECU to shut down certain power consumers on the electrical system via a relay to preserve the battery charge. The wake up function is designed to be performed only once. But moisture damaged IBS can repeatedly wake the ECU which can quickly drain the battery.

Raising the system voltage can be detrimental to battery life if the temperature of the battery acid during accelerated charging reaches the boiling point. Water in the acid solution will boil away, and in a sealed battery cannot be replenished and will adversely affect battery life. Before computerized charging systems this was a common occurrence in car batteries and why an important part of battery maintenance was checking cell acid solution levels and adding distilled water as needed to prevent the cell charging plates from being exposed. The IBS with its built-in acid temperature monitor (actually measures the temperature of the negative terminal) can signal the ECU to back down the system voltage when the temperature begins to approach boiling.

An additional issue is the sensitivity of AGM batteries to voltage. AGM batteries should never be charged with a voltage exceeding 14.8V or they can be damaged, whereas the older FLA style can easily accept 15.5V or more for a short period. This is the most important function of programming the ECU for the battery. Telling the ECU if the battery is an AGM type will prevent the ECU from ever telling the voltage regulator to exceed 14.8V during accelerated charging.

When the IBS fails or is disconnected the ECU senses that it can gain no information regarding battery health or acid temperature and defaults to a fixed system voltage of just over 14V (like older style charging systems). This may have a minor effect on battery life as during long highway trips when the battery becomes fully charged there is the opportunity for an IBS enabled charging system to lower the system voltage even further (down into the mid 13s) to prevent overcharging the battery, but it won't be substantial for most owners.

Other than preventing overcharging an AGM type battery with a voltage greater than 14.8V, there is really no magic to battery registration and no measurable increase in battery life.

I had the opportunity to measure battery charging voltages long term before battery replacement (dealer replacement of FLA type with AGM and registration) and after replacement of that AGM battery when it died 3.5 years later with another AGM battery I installed with no registration. I saw no change in normal system voltage over time and certainly have seen no over-charging of the new battery, as is the claim that BMW always makes in favor of registration.

I have a OBDII cable and run both DIS and INPA regularly for diagnostics, and could register the battery myself, but as it is already properly registered to an AGM type battery I don't feel the need.

Moral of the story - If an FLA type battery is registered, don't replace it with an AGM type battery without registering the AGM type afterwards. Other than that, registration is only a great way to keep your dealer making money.
Thank you so much for this. Really appreciate it.

I put a brand new Duralast AGM Battery in my car and have the IBS disconnected but went out to start it this morning and it was dead. Again, this was a fully charged, brand new AGM battery. There seems to be some parasitic draw coming from somewhere that is draining my battery, but it's obviously not the IBS as this is disconnected. When I shut the car off (even after a few minutes) I can still hear a faint buzz coming from the stereo/vent area....

Anyone heard of common parasitic drain issues with these cars?? Or where a good spot to start checking would be?

Thank you in advance,

-Josh

Last edited by GreenMTNE60; 05-09-2016 at 06:39 AM. Reason: .
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  #168  
Old 08-15-2016, 04:56 PM
BronxE60 BronxE60 is offline
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ID:	573361 I think it's time for a new battery. 04 525i 135k. I've had this car for about a year now. I installed an aftermarket sub, an amp and a digital 4farad capacitor in the trunk about 4 months ago. The voltage has always read between 13.9 and 14.2 while the sub was turned up. Recently the voltage reads 14.2 when the music is off but as soon as I turn it on and raise the volume the amps go down to 9.00 on the capacitor and the bass shuts off. I have Carly and in the parameters section I've been monitoring the battery voltage. Other than the bass shutting off everything seems ok. Any input?
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  #169  
Old 08-15-2016, 05:09 PM
BronxE60 BronxE60 is offline
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End All Battery Replacement Thread

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ID:	573367 this is my current battery. Is this battery even the correct one the car should have? Isn't AH 80 too low as well as the CCA 790?
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  #170  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:54 PM
Jtbgonesailing Jtbgonesailing is offline
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Uh, No... FLA battery, 110ah. AGM battery, 95ah. With the amp, sub, etc that you have installed go with the AGM battery. Even though it has fewer Ah, the AGM will accept a faster charge rate, thus recovering better for your usage. Remember changing from a FLA battery to AGM will require reprogramming to AGM and resetting your ah rating, plus usual registration. You can accomplish all with your Carly.
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  #171  
Old 08-15-2016, 08:09 PM
BronxE60 BronxE60 is offline
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So this battery is FLA not AGM???
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  #172  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:01 PM
twh twh is offline
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Mein Auto: '06 530xi 6sp, '09 X5 3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxE60 View Post
So this battery is FLA not AGM???
That battery is a flooded type and not an AGM type.
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  #173  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:05 PM
Jtbgonesailing Jtbgonesailing is offline
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Mein Auto: 05 530i & 81 320i
Call the 800 number shown in photo 3. Interstate will confirm based on the part number what you have.... 04 & 05 e60 were mfd with FLA batteries installed as OEM. Take your Carly and look how it is set up now. By the way, I notice on your ground terminal in photo 3, you are missing the IBS terminal. Hard to get the system to function as designed with part of the system absent.
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  #174  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:56 PM
BronxE60 BronxE60 is offline
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I didn't know that. I'm going to check again in a few minutes and take some pics. Since I didn't disconnect anything I assumed that everything that was supposed to be plugged in was actually plugged in. I didn't get any codes at all so I would've never known
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  #175  
Old 08-15-2016, 11:22 PM
BronxE60 BronxE60 is offline
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