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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

94K views 792 replies 102 participants last post by  sf_loft 
#1 ·
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_show...t_2013_cadillac_ats_first_look/#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
 
#699 ·
In my opinion the ATS was a very good move for Cadillac and from what I have read it appears to be a very good car. Not best in class but nevertheless a very good car.

Will it change Cadillacs image overnight? Highly unlikely, that will take time but I think it was a very smart move on the part of Cadillac and GM. It took BMW a generation to establish itself in the luxury market and it was only recently that the large BMWs surpassed the large Cadillacs in sales. At least someone at Cadillac was smart enough to realize they were headed in the wrong direction and do something to change it.

CA
 
#700 ·
A better chassis is the right move, but to change its image, they need to really literally make some real changes to the look of the Caddies. ATS did some exterior changes but I don't think they are enough.

I don't mind they keep their design language, it sets the ATS apart from others in the segment, but they need to match the 3 series, provide more options and trims to attract European buyers. The traditional massive chrome finishing, both exterior and interior, can turn many European buyers off.
 
#706 ·
I agree. It will take until at least the summer. January car sales are terrible. No one wants to car shop right after Christmas or in the dead of winter. And February sales aren't much better.
 
#718 ·
Every time someone posts in this thread a Cadillac marketeer gets a bonus. :D
 
#730 ·
In a recent interview at the LA Auto Show, the Caddy V.P. of Marketing appeared to say ATS will be the highest volume model for Caddy, but he expected 35k to 40k ATS sales in the first year. That does not seem that many. Didn't someone already show they sold over 50k CTS in 2011?
 
#731 ·
Wow, here were still 50K gold chain, polyester wearing people buying cars in 2011?

Just did a quick check of cars.com at the ATS inventory on US dealer lots. Over 16K available now from reporting dealers. The car has a wide range of price points, from the upper $30k to over $60K, to target another wide range of gold chain, polyester wearing buyers in 2013.
 
#732 · (Edited)
I take offense to this kind of language. I personally do not like the ATS but this does not qualify me to opine on the people who drive them. The 3 series also starts from 30 to 60k, so not so sure what the difference is of the type of people being referenced above. I know people paying 60k a year for their kids to go to private school and drive Avalanches and the wife does not work. Lets be more civil gents, we are not driving Lambos here
 
#734 ·
There's not a great deal of substance to the discussion as it is, yet it continues. A car magazine rates the Caddy as a worthy contender (winner) to the 3 series,BMW owners get upset and it becomes one of the most popular discussions on the 3-Series board. I guess if one wanted to learn more about the 3-series, the Caddy forum may prove substantive on the topic.
 
#753 ·
Back in October, Edmunds reported US Bank had 1.44% rate and 60% residial lease deals for ATS. Due to no incentives at the time, a well equipped ATS ($50k) would have been leased for $600 with no down.

From what I have read of the BMW/MB war, you can lease a 328i or C250 with similar MSRP for much less, not to mention that Infiniti G37 is leased for even lower payment.

Unless GM starts to offer some serious incentives on ATS, I think the sales will stay at around 2,500 or less. Let's see if my new year prediction works out or not:)
 
#754 ·
Listening to the Ed Wallace Saturday radio show Wheels, he always starts the show with 4 or 5 car dealers. The Cadillac dealer from Fort Worth indicated that part of the problem was availability of the ATS in a variety of colors and options which has been remedied in December. He indicated around one third of all Cadillac sales this month has been ATS.
 
#756 ·
On Saturday I test drove 2 328i xDrive sedans and then test drove a 2.0T ATS immediately after. In my opinion the 328 was way more enticing..

I don't own a BMW (never have), or a Caddy, so I had no preconceived notions of either before Saturday. I was actually hoping I would have liked the ATS, as I like the styling.
 
#757 ·
The xDrives have the least sporting BMW like suspensions in which you compared to the ATS which is supposedly the best handling most BMW like offering. You also lugged around an extra 100-150lbs compared to an NON-Xdrive 328.

You did not quite compare apples to apples. I do not think AWD ATS' are even being offered yet.
 
#771 ·
Disclosure: I've never owned a BMW or a Caddy. I'm a WRX guy looking to move into a bit nicer sedan, but I'm trying to maintain a bit of the edginess of the sports orientation my '02 WRX gives me. As I'm sure most of you are painfully aware, it's a tough market for that kind of car these days in the U.S. I've been looking hard at a 3-series, and am currently leaning to the upcoming wagon. I must admit, though, that it's been a tough go in deciding which direction to go. I've alternated between BMWs, WRX/STis, etc ,ore than once. The problem is that everyone seems to be moving away from their performance roots, even Subaru with the WRX. Are we becoming a nation of lame drivers with neutered cars?

Anyway, I recently had the good fortune to be included in a Cadillac V-Series Performance lab at Circuit of the Americas here in Austin. I loved the Vs, but they're well out of my price range. I was looking forward to driving the ATS, and it looks like a great platform for the V version to come later. The ATSs we drove in the avoidance portion of the day were very nice, nimble, and had good acceleration, etc, but they didn't really inspire any "Sport Sedan" feeling imho. The car seemed to perform anything asked of it with ease. It just wasn't all that fun, frankly. I have no doubt the ATS-V will be a beast, but I'll never sniff it, at least on this go-round, just as I can't break into the M-class market.

I've also had a handful of 3-series test drives, & I must admit to a similar "detached" impression, though not nearly to the same degree. I do love the look of the wagon though, and I like the potential it lends for a seamless transition from my wagon.

I haven't driven a car with the M Adaptive suspension. Sport mode gives more weight to the steering input, correct? Is this the same feeling as the Sport Line suspension, only with the option to select it? Or is it heavier and more sensitive than with the Sport Line suspension?

Frankly, I'm a bit frustrated in my search for something edgy & somewhat raw on a higher end, and I'm starting to feel pressure to decide, as my older WRX wagon is nearing the point when I'll have to start shelling out some $$ for repairs or get rid of it altogether.
 
#766 ·
Agreed. A friend just leased a G37 with just the premium package for 360 with nothing down.

Cadillac better get their ducks in a row, if someone comes to steal the ATS thunder, Q50, at this important stage in its life cycle they may never get it back. The New C is on its way too so time is precious.
 
#768 ·
Agreed. A friend just leased a G37 with just the premium package for 360 with nothing down.

Cadillac better get their ducks in a row, if someone comes to steal the ATS thunder, Q50, at this important stage in its life cycle they may never get it back. The New C is on its way too so time is precious.
Cadillac's challenge is not whether the ATS can dethrone 3 or even C. If they can sell 5k ATSs a month (which is not too far off if the growth continues), it will be a success. They need to do a lot more for the more upper level cars and SUVs.

As I said before, they did so with the ATS without much incentives so far. There is a lot of room for them to play if they need to show some sales numbers. Right now an ATS with similar MSRP 3 series sells for more than the 3, which is more than a C, and the G37 is the most affordable. In fact G37 is selling at a price level similar to G25 from a year before, not necessarily something to brag about.
 
#775 · (Edited)
We've had a mini parade of folks who get upset that the F30 (or any other mid-size luxury sports sedan) isn't as "nimble" as their GTI, Mini Cooper, WRX, etc. The bottom line is that it's a bigger car and it's not going to give that go-kart on rails feeling that is possible with a smaller car and sticky tires, regardless of handling, road-holding or acceleration.

I test drove a 528i and thought it was a boat. A buddy wanted me to go with him on a test drive of one with his wife, and 2nd time around I actually thought it drove really well for a car that size.

When I first got my F30 I thought it was huge. Now, five months and six thousand miles later it feels "normal" to me and I'd probably feel cramped if I re-drove my old ride, a 2004 B7 A4.

As far as adaptive suspension goes, it will not do anything for the steering feel, it's the same setup as the regular F30 with the exception of a tighter turning radius at low speeds to make parking much less of a chore. I personally find corners very engaging with AWD, but I've also been driving AWD cars now for over a decade.... corner entry/exit technique is slightly different with AWD vs. RWD. However, having driven the RWD and AWD F30 back to back a couple of times I don't exactly feel like I'm "missing out" by not having the RWD setup... and, the extra 150 or so lbs is probably only noticeable on the track. You do get phenomenal ability to launch the car with no wheel slip, it is great if you want to do a quick take-off for whatever reason.

People should get what they want, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.... if you get something bigger, it WILL feel bigger, at least initially. Some of these guys would whine that an M5, even though it destroys their current car in every way imaginable, is not "fun enough" because it's not a go-kart.
 
#777 · (Edited)
Yeah I understand all that. I know that the cars in question here are very capable and I know I'll give up a little bit of that rawness moving from the WRX to a bigger sedan (the WRX & F30 are actually comparable, with the F30 being about 325# heavier). I just want a new 4 or 5-door car of good quality, with a bit more room, that I can get excited about. ..not just something that performs well, but something I can connect with in terms of sound, feel, etc. Right now, as far as I can tell, the 3-series is my best fit, but in the back of my mind I keep waiting for something to come along and grab my attention so I know it's "the one", like when I first drove a WRX. There was no doubt after that as to what kind of car I'd be buying.
 
#788 ·
I'm thinking about the X1 once my lease ends as the price is very attractive. Downside is no MT and I've read that throttle lag is a problem but I haven't had a test drive yet. Otherwise the E90 chassis as we know is great and the AWD versions have hydraulic steering. The extra room would be nice as well.
 
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