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I hope it's just me but... F30s just not the same?

33K views 624 replies 78 participants last post by  Michael Schott 
#1 ·
I recently drove a F32 loaner for 2 days, is it just me to think 8 gears and 4 cylinder just takes some of that ooomph out of the BMWness?

For me, if you put the car in comfort it become a lexus... way too smooth... probably a good thing for a lot of people but if I want that, why I bother with a bimmer?

If you want to manual shift the auto tran... 8 gears are just way too much in city traffic... put it in sport you loose their advertised fuel economy.... SO what's the point of getting a new bimmer these day???

335 is the only way to go i guess?
 
#464 · (Edited)
I'm curious as to how the 30k average per new car transaction number was arrived it. I'm speculating that this number can be fairly easily skewed.

For example:

Say 4 people buy an $18,000 Corolla/Civic/Cruise class of car.

3 more buy a $23,000 Camry, Accord, Malibu class of car.

BJ leases his 4GC and a ******* buys his dream truck and both cost $55,000.

1 person buys a Ferrari at $250,000.

Total = $501,000 or an average price of $50,100 per new car transaction in my hypothetical model. The top 30% skew the numbers for the majority 70% by more than double.

I realize this is very simplistic, but I do wonder how some the numbers that are arrived at.
 
#466 · (Edited)
I'm curious as to how the 30k average per new car transaction number was arrived it. I'm speculating that this number can be fairly easily skewed.

For example:

Say 4 people buy an $18,000 Corolla/Civic/Cruise class of car.

3 more buy a $23,000 Camry, Accord, Malibu class of car.

BJ leases his 4GC and a ******* buys his dream truck and both cost $55,000.

1 person buys a Ferrari at $250,000.

Total = $501,000 or an average price of $50,100 per new car transaction in my hypothetical model. The top 30% skew the numbers for the majority 70% by more than double.

I realize this is very simplistic, but I do wonder how some the numbers that are arrived at.
In a huge sample size, which was likely used to calculate the data on average car price, outliers have minimal impact. For example Toyota sells about 300,000 Camry's/year. Let's say they average $25k. That's $7.5 billion dollars. Lets guess that Ferrari sells about 2000 cars a year in the US. Lets say they average $300K. That's $600 million. That raises the average price to $26,821.00. Not much of a skew and if you add in Accords, Fusions, Malibu's and the like you are talking about millions of cars vs perhaps 10,000 supercars. Statistically insignificant. In addition, there are far more cars like the Chevy Spark, Honda Fit and little Kia's that cost well under $20K skewing towards the low end.
 
#465 ·
I was told there would be no math
 
#478 · (Edited)
It's funny...maintenance guy in at my apartment complex showed up for maintenance work today. Notices my loaner so he asks what happened to the car. Then asks me what my payment is. I tell him I own it outright. Says he wants one badly but can't afford it.

I wasn't sure what to tell him, but it made me feel uncomfortable.
 
#488 ·
My first reason to buy BMW is because I love the brand, ever since my neighbor's dad had a 2002 in his stable way back in the mid 70s. Much later, a friend of mine was a sales manager in BMW dealer in the 90s and he would bring demos over so I could "test" drive them. That was the first time I drove a bimmer and was hooked, but could never afford one, mind you they were much more expensive where I live than in US back then and forget financing, it was impossible back then. Today, any model new BMW is roughly 10-15 percent more than US, and financing much more accessible, although still way above what you guys get over there.

Finally I can afford one and took the plunge last year, got the 328 M Sport, total sticker price was US $50,200, well equipped. My company leased it for US $1,388 per month for 36 months, includes unlimited mileage, total insurance, all taxes, fees, etc., with a residual value of about US $15,000, and only US $3,000 first payment. I am amazed at the deals you get in the States ... US $500-600 per month ... wow!

Sorry for the short novel but just wanted to say that I did test and compare other brands, models, etc. The bimmers in similar price range trumped them all in relevant attributes I was looking for, but would be lying if didn't admit that the BMW logo clinched my purchase decision. Down here, the brand is a status symbol, but that was low on my priorities. I wanted a BMW and that's why a bought it. To be honest, I don't perceive a huge difference in more than 40 years of automotive development, only what the market demands and technology provides. Also, never show off the car, like to drive when few people are on the road. When going to congested places, restaurants, bars, I usually take a cab - valet parking could have something to do with that :)
 
#522 · (Edited)
I think even though it took me a while to get through your 'style' to understand where you are coming from, it turns out I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Your delivery is just off-putting sometimes, but you essentially speak the truth much of the time. I just don't know if I'll be in the position in 2.5 years to shell out 6 bills a month or so for the "full experience", so I'm not sure where that will leave me.. Either in the new model 320 but with more options or a stripper 328 or 330... Time will tell.
 
#525 · (Edited)
I'm sort of in the middle with this one. I use my moonroof every day. I live in L.A., it is 72 and sunny here in January so it's open a lot. I play music all the time in the car and the stereo is decent. HK would be nice but it's not a big deal. I like that that headlights are automatic, I like the rain sensing wipers (when it rains), I love the feel of the M-Sport steering wheel and the way the sport seats hug me and hold me in place vs. those flat standard seats. I like the little touches like the LED's under the door handles and in the cabin, how all the surfaces you touch incl. the insides of the door handles are nice to touch and I love the ergonomics. Everything is laid out perfectly, totally oriented towards the driver. The silence in the cabin, the solidity at high speeds, etc. So even with the lower models, you get a premium feel.

Re: options I think it all depends on what you are looking for, but for someone like me, sport package is an essential option package whereas I find driver's assistance packages to be a needless waste of money. Those features would be nice but they aren't remotely important enough to me to pay extra $ for. I realize they are useful and handy, but not essential to me and I don't equate them to 'luxury'. I equate great seats w/heating and ultimately cooling, an excellent stereo, choice leathers and woods, a good NAV system, HID lights etc. in the luxury realm while they other stuff just feels like tech for tech's sake. Nav would be nice but it works fine via my phone and iDrive. The one option I really miss that the next car will have w/out a doubt is heated seats. Had them in the GTI, loved them. Great for the back.
 
#528 ·
Ok, I like to look at it the other way around: even though my car was close to 60k I take comfort in knowing almost no one can tell how much I had to pay for it. People might assume it's some 30k car which is great, less judging, less explaining why it's worth it, etc. isn't that one of the selling points of the M3? Looks like a regualr 3er to the untrained eye, pretty stealthy.
 
#538 ·
Other than an M3 or a 335 convertible for cruising, I cannot imagine spending $60K on a 3 series. To me, it's not enough car to be worth that kind of scratch. It's not sporty enough and lacks luxury at that price. I might look at a Cadillac CTS Vsport. Not the prettiest car in the world but very quick and very good dynamically. Or I'd get a $40K 328i F30 and a used Miata.
 
#541 ·
What the heck is a "luxury" car? Luxury is just a marketing gimmick. I also don't understand people's affinity for years of yore. I remember my 1984 318i and the fun to drive, quirkiness of the car was muted by the constant "adjusting" it needed on the air control valve (well at least on mine) and the uncomfortable seats. There will always be people who have fond recollections of cars gone by and complain about anything new. Frankly, if you don't like the trend, then stop buying. My wife can't see herself in any other car than BMW, not sure why, she doesn't like anything else. I can tell you she prefers the F30 steering over her E46 steering. I don't care to "feel" the road in my steering frankly, but prefer a more precise and responsive steering. I also prefer the F30 doesn't bounce around, which I presume is what some people think defines sporty, like the our E90 or E46. I can also appreciate the F30 hasn't gone out of alignment unlike our constantly needing alignment E46 and E90, more so on our E90. For most drivers, driving a car means commuting, and I don't get the need for "sporty" sitting in traffic. Sporty to me means accurate steering and handling, speed and acceleration when I need/want it, and maneuverability. I don't need to "feel" sporty through steering, rough suspension, etc., or hear sporty through engine noise.
 
#548 ·
One drawback to getting a heavily optioned lower price series and running the cost up to close to or above the cost of a more expensive series is depreciation and the hit you will take on trade in or resale.

But if the car is leased that will not be an issue.
 
#549 · (Edited)
One drawback to getting a heavily optioned lower price series and running the cost up to close to or above the cost of a more expensive series is depreciation and the hit you will take on trade in or resale.

But if the car is leased that will not be an issue.
True. Even with leasing there can be a benefit to getting the higher priced series if you do ED. I discovered this when I realized a 328 equipped like a 528 would cost more to lease (with ED and the higher cca rebate factored in). That's because the ED discount is on the base price- so if a more expensive model has more standard features that you would get anyway then you benefit.

As far as interior quality goes, I tend to agree with BJ. The actual plastics aren't that different. The main difference is the availability of nicer extended leather, and the overall design which some find more pleasing. On the 5 series forum, you'd think people own rolls Royces or something though. Got my head chewed off for suggesting there wasn't much substantive difference. 5 series owners seem to focus on the f30 nav screen design and center console lid as being totally unacceptable. I don't get it personally
 
#550 · (Edited)
IMHO, anyone looking for "luxury" foremost is barking up the wrong tree with the F30. To me, ventilated seats are the minimum requirement to be considered a "luxury car" (beyond the other basic features that are included in a $30k Accord/Camry), and the F30 doesn't even offer them. They are available in several <$40k Kias, Toyotas, etc.

Massaging seats, cooled seats, reclining rear seats with footrests, etc are other "luxury" features not available in the F30 that are offered in other less expensive luxury cars.

What the F30 does offer is a level of sportiness and driver involvement that few competitors even attempt to replicate, and that's complimented by a pleasing interior/exterior design with some nice optional convenience features. But luxury? Not quite.
 
#552 ·
I really don't understand how people are criticizing a $60k 3/4 series. I've owned an e46, e60, e71, f10, and now the f36. All of these cars were loaded and the one that I love the most is the f36. It is the perfect blend of everything that I could ask for. It also happens to ride better than the f10 and the sports seats are better suited to my frame than the comfort seats in the 5. My F36 stickers at 63k and is the cheapest BMW that I've owned. The $55k 2001 e46 that I had costs $73,664.91 in today's money.

Anyway me "downgrading" to a 435i GC was the best upgrade I've ever made :). The car is on another level. All of this is just my opinion and one size doesn't fit all.

-King
 
#556 · (Edited)
Anyway me "downgrading" to a 435i GC was the best upgrade I've ever made :). The car is on another level. All of this is just my opinion and one size doesn't fit all.

-King
And that is what a lot of posters here don't seem to understand as they insist that "their" BMW is a "real" BMW and is what BMW intended the car to be when obviously BMW intended the car to be different things to different people.

It is like going to a restaurant and telling the people sitting at the table next to you that he is not getting the "real" restaurant experience and are just there so they can be seen in an expensive restaurant. They ordered chicken and no appetizer or desert or wine and you ordered three courses and a bottle of champagne with steak as the main course but in your narrow view of things they wanted to order the same thing but couldn't because it was too expensive.

On another note my experience with having a 3 Series with sport suspension and a 7 Series at the same time is that they are very different cars and have very different strong points. Both very good cars that do most things very well. If I had to choose one to drive form New York to Chicago in Interstates there is no question that I would choose the 7. If I was going to be driving on back roads in New England I would certainly choose the 3. But the bottom line is that the 3 would not be a bad car to drive to Chicago and the 7 is not an unpleasant car to drive on twisty roads.

And while having "all the toys" may not make the driving dynamics any better I do think that they make the driving experience better and all other things being equal they certainly don't make the driving dynamics any worse.
 
#575 ·
The only thing that I miss from the F10 is the big center armrest and the fully lined door compartment. If I were going from the F10 to the F36 I would miss a lot more. I think the days of prestige from the sequential hierarchy are over, as there are numerous derivatives of core models. BMW is now making cars to cater to lifestyles. The actual cost to make a 3/4 and 5/6 probably aren't that far off.

-King
 
#577 ·
The only thing that I miss from the F10 is the big center armrest and the fully lined door compartment. If I were going from the F10 to the F36 I would miss a lot more. I think the days of prestige from the sequential hierarchy are over, as there are numerous derivatives of core models. BMW is now making cars to cater to lifestyles. The actual cost to make a 3/4 and 5/6 probably aren't that far off.

-King
Increments in price never equate to the same increment in content. A $40,000 car is not twice as good as a $20,000 car nor half as good as an $80,000. As the prices increase the "goodness" increases at a slower and slower rate.
 
#582 ·
Why people don't buy a couple years older BMW fully loaded vs a new one stripped is beyond me. My 2003 540 is still an amazing car and it would sell today for a whopping $10K. I've also had a great experience with a 2001 740. The E60s did nothing for me as did the E90s. But hey, the F32 is just what i was looking for and I bought it.

There are so many fantastic used BMWs out there that you can get at such a cheaper price which is why I don't understand people who fret over this tremendously long and sometimes entertaining but annoying thread. Are you obligated to buy new? Can you not skip a generation if you think it sucks? It's like, "Oh no, my lease is up! I don't like the latest model! What do I do????!!!"
 
#586 ·
Why people don't buy a couple years older BMW fully loaded vs a new one stripped is beyond me. My 2003 540 is still an amazing car and it would sell today for a whopping $10K. I've also had a great experience with a 2001 740. The E60s did nothing for me as did the E90s. But hey, the F32 is just what i was looking for and I bought it.

There are so many fantastic used BMWs out there that you can get at such a cheaper price which is why I don't understand people who fret over this tremendously long and sometimes entertaining but annoying thread. Are you obligated to buy new? Can you not skip a generation if you think it sucks? It's like, "Oh no, my lease is up! I don't like the latest model! What do I do????!!!"
It's like those who buy a knockoff Rolex. If it's not the latest style, you're fooling even fewer people.

With the 320i Outlet Mall Edition, BMW's idea is to take $299 a month away from Honda by providing a car that looks the part but isn't.

BJ
 
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#603 ·
 
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