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Doesn't Anyone Buy Anymore?

187K views 3K replies 227 participants last post by  alex2364 
#1 ·
I became a member of Bimmerfest a little while ago - I'll probably wind up buying a 328 with European Delivery (just waiting to test drive and see the car in person). But the point I want to make is that it seems as though more people lease this car rather than buy. I realize there are business reasons to lease (tax write-off) and that those that don't keep their car longer than three/four years that leasing might be the way to go. However, I plan to keep the car at least six/eight years - as a long-time car buyer I have always done this on the basis that a car depreciates immensely the first few years and then slows down - meaning that once you get past year three the car is less expensive unless the manufacturer is not reliable and various problems pop up in the later years (hopefully, this will not be the case with the 328). Anyway, just wanted to see if there was something that I am not aware of by buying instead of leasing (while I had planned to buy with cash - getting a 1.99 or even 2.99 loan might change my mind - I don't like to have debt).
 
#2,585 ·
Just bought mine....never leased one and don't care to. I like to own the things I have. I tend to take care of them better, appreciate them more, and I'm proud of what I have because I worked hard for it. But that's me :thumbup:
 
#2,587 ·
Whether you lease or finance you don't "own" the car until you have the title.

CA
 
#2,604 ·
Another way to describe the three:

Leasing = right to use + investment income from $50k in the market - perpetual monthly payment

Financing = right to use until paid in full to reclaim ownership - finance charges - investment income from monthly payment + investment income from lack of payment after paid in full

Cash Purchase = ownership - investment income from $50k + investment income from lack of payment

The differences among the three can be small due to low interest rate and subsidized cap cost and residual, but as we know for some makes(e.g. Porsche) and/or models(e.g. X5, M3), the differences can be very large.
 
#2,605 · (Edited)
If you have title to the car it is an asset.
If you have a monthly lease payment it is a liability.
Simple economics.

This does not imply that leasing is not a good decision.

I am seriously considering leasing an M4 convertible but would like to get the lease payment close to $1,000/mo. So far nobody is willing to deal on an M4. I'll see what Jaguar can do on a F-Type.
 
#2,606 ·
If you have title to the car it is an asset.
If you have a monthly lease payment it is a liability.
Simple economics.

This does not imply that leasing is not a good decision.

I am seriously considering leasing an M4 convertible but would like to get the lease payment close to $1,000/mo. So far nobody is willing to deal on an M4. I'll see what Jaguar can do on a F-Type.
Reminds of the guy from Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He talks about mortgages and housing as generally a liability as well. Only an asset if it's making you money in terms of a monthly cashflow perspective.
 
#2,623 ·
Whether we lease or buy, the $ we pay to drive will be traded for the car/s of our choosing. I was a long time proponent of buying and keeping for a long time but one of my cars have increased in value. They will keep getting closer to zero in value, well actually negative value since more than likely we'll have to pour more $ to fix it. You are less likely to pour $ if you have a more reliable car which I have in my Japanese RSX.

Our money will be gone anyway so either buy one to keep it forever or have a new one every three years. Pick whatever tickles your fancy.

I am so leasing next time.
 
#2,625 ·
That depends on the car. The money we ended up paying can be very different. I kept my Camry for 15 years, only traded it in because I wanted stability control and a compact sedan. It just happened that BWM f30 was the best for me as a replacement.

Keep leasing a Camry for 15 years would have cost me about $60k in 15 years. I bought mine for $17k and I traded in for 3k last year. I saved ~46k over the years. Do I miss having a new Camry every few years? No. The old Camry did just great as a daily driver.

On the other hand, BMW is not as reliable. I don't have problem with the mentality of keep leasing to avoid expensive repairs.

I want to take the risk of self insured my f30 because mine was built at the end of MY 2013, not the beginning of MY 2012. Thus likely to have less issues as BMW had 2 years to works out the new model's issues.
 
#2,632 ·
When I looked at the depreciation of a 3-4 year old used car over ownership of 3-4 years, with maintenance costs, it would cost me as much or more than buying new and keeping the car for 7-8 years, and I would be starting with a car that was used. I don't mind a used car, have purchased a few over the years. The problem is, things are changing quickly now. A CPO 2011 gets about 22 mpg in mostly highway mixed use (maybe a little better), whereas my 2015 is getting 28-30 mpg in mostly highway mixed use. That's a significant difference for a car that I am going to put a lot of miles on (I drive 15K to 18K a year). The other thing is that most of the CPO cars I was looking at had roughly 35K to 50K miles on them. Even with the extended warranty, I'd have well over 100K miles on them before I would be ready to sell them. Finally, finding a used BMW that wasn't full of all kinds of bells and whistled that I didn't want or need (especially leather seats) was nearly impossible--I assume because they were lease returns and most people leasing rightly decide that they are only paying for a fraction of the cost of the bells and whistles on their car (because they will only be using those bells and whistles for 30%-50% of the life of the car). I wanted a mostly stripped BMW with just a few features that are important to me. In the end, I bought a new 2015 Sports Wagon (that was the other thing-finding a wagon was next to impossible) for $39,400. A 2011 CPO 3 series would have cost me between $26K and $32K depending on its features (I seriously considered a 2011 Sports Wagon, loaded, "retailed" for $32K, negotiated to $29,500). What would that car be worth in 2018? Or, put another way, what will my car be worth to sell in 2021 versus a 2011? I think the difference in depreciation totally justifies the advantages of driving trouble free for the first 50K miles, with far less likelihood of problems from 50K miles to 100K miles, which I would hit a lot sooner with the CPO car. Those are my reasons.
 
#2,634 · (Edited)
I noticed the same thing when I was looking at CPO 535i 2010s two years ago. My observation is that dealers are using their domination of the used car market in 3 year old cars to artificially inflate prices.

One dealer said he was selling me a 3 y/o $58k car for only $38k. What he wasn't saying is that that car would be worth only $19k in another 3 years. To make economic sense, the car would have had to sell for much less.

When I looked at the depreciation of a 3-4 year old used car over ownership of 3-4 years, with maintenance costs, it would cost me as much or more than buying new and keeping the car for 7-8 years, and I would be starting with a car that was used.
 
#2,636 · (Edited)
I don't think it's the same at all if you are talking about leasing and appliance cars like a Camry vs. a BMW. Two totally different worlds. Many lease because it's very little hassle w/a cap on out of pocket expenses being very low. Everyone can offer their own subjective anecdotes about BMW reliablity but the fact of the matter is they are (A) not as reliable as an Accord or whatever and (B) a lot more expensive to fix and maintain. It gets annoying hearing BMW owners try to talk about how they somehow beat the system and that their 8 year old 335i has been just a dream, requiring little out of pocket expenses. If that is you, then you were lucky. No need to dredge up issues like the fuel system problems that plagued the previous gen N55 etc. because owning a BMW long term is a serious roll of the dice vs. a Camry. A few major repairs can easily cancel out any equity you may have had, at which point you will have paid the same as leasing but are stuck with a 10 year old car vs. a new one. Regardless of whether or not that 10 year old BMW is your 'baby', that scenario is kind of a bummer.

Additionally, Toyota, Honda etc. are generally low maintenance and bulletproof in comparison, so talking about leasing for the free maintenance and warranty is almost irrelevant. It is generally simple from an engineering perspective, parts are cheaper, labor is cheaper, reliablity is higher and people who drive those cars tend to come from the buy and hold camp, simply because they know those cars will still be going strong after a decade, having required very little TLC. Over a 9 year period, my Tacoma required oil changes, air filters and tires. It was a manual and I finally did the brake pads at 70k miles. Nothing broke. It required nothing. You could find parts at junk yards and parts/labor was dirt cheap. THere is a reason why the Taliban bros roll in 1980's Toyota Pickups. You aren't going to see them out there piling into a 2002 530i... IF a car is going to run forever and be cheap as hell to own, why on earth would you lease it? Because you want the newest model of some crappy boring car?

These guys don't lease:
 
#2,648 ·
I suggest you read the Consumer Reports' 10 years reliability chart for 3 series before you embarrassed yourself more with incomplete facts. Only 3 out of last 10 years models got more fuel pump issues than average. In fact, the 3 series reliability trend is very encouraging.
 
#2,643 · (Edited)
In 2007 I wrote a check for $73,000 for my 335i E93. That figure included all of the applicable fees, NY State sales tax, accessories etc.

Until I read this thread I did not realize I could not afford a BMW. :cry:

I am not convinced that what I did was the best way to go although it seemed like a good idea at the time (hindsight is 20/20). The car is now over seven years old and is in showroom condition. It had no scratches, no dings or dents, no rattles and the leather upholstery is in perfect condition. I replaced the RFTs and installed Koni FSD shocks several years back and have no issue with pothole explosion and am very happy with the way the car drives.

I test drove a 435i convertible recently and quite frankly although there were some features that were not available when I bought the car that I would like to have (heads up display, back up camera, blind spot assistance) I did not find any compelling reason to replace my E92 with one.
It was a very nice car and drove very well but I think I prefer the way my 335i drives I say "I think" because I had a short test drive in the 435 and 58,000 miles on the 335i.

If I was starting out with a clean slate I would probably lease but at this point I own a car that I like to drive and that serves my needs well.

I am considering replacing it but frankly it will take a car that catches my fancy lot more than a 435 does to compel me to make a move.
 
#2,665 · (Edited)
In 2007 I wrote a check for $73,000 for my 335i E93. That figure included all of the applicable fees, NY State sales tax, accessories etc.

Until I read this thread I did not realize I could not afford a BMW. :cry:
Few ways to look at this:

$73,000 outlay for the last 7 years is $869 a month. If you forget the resale value and just look at the principle, you could have been in your third new 6 Series using that money towards leases.

If you net out the resale value on a 7 year old 335i Cabrio that's living a hard life in Manhattan, that's $53,000 out of pocket or $630 a month which is within a hair of what I'm paying and I'm a few months away from my 4th brand new 3 Series.

Not sure why either of these was the best option for you. Not sure why you chose to drive a lesser car than you could have at $869 and I'm not sure why your dead-net of $630 a month wouldn't have been better spent in consecutive brand new 3 Cabrio's either. If the ability to put some shocks and springs on the car was worth the outlay of cash, the negative ROI of the cash you laid out, and the loss of experiencing 3 brand new BMW's over that span more power to you, but it doesn't seem logical.

In other's cases, they can't afford a BMW. You can afford a BMW. But how you chose to afford it is curious.

BJ
 
#2,659 · (Edited)
The idea that a 3 year old car or a 6 year old car is slower, more dangerous, etc. than a new model or that after three years the car stops delivering some hypothetical mystical "experience" is ridiculous

I purchased by E93 in June of 2007. If I had leased it, at the end of 3 years, in June of 2010 I could have lease a 2010 model which was for all practical purposes the same as a 2007 model with a few running improvements but no major changes either cosmetically or mechanically. Three years later in June of 2013 I could have leased a 2013 E93 which once again was for all practical purposes the same as my 2007. Since I kept the car in showroom condition scratches, dings, dents, upholstery wear, etc. were not factors. Additionally if I had gotten new models in 2010 and 2013 I would have done the same thing I did with the 2007. I would have replace the awful RFTs and replaced the crap OEM shocks. I also would have had to remove the radar detector and laser jammers from the older cars and had them re installed in the new cars.

If I had followed that path at this point in time I would be driving a 2013 E93 which is not the current model, but is for all practical purposes the same as my 2007, until 2016.

And as I stated earlier I did not find anything compelling about the 435 that made me feel like I had to have one.

I view the 3 Series as a nice middle of the road car. Not extremely expensive, not as much fun to drive as (but much more practical than) a Miata or a 911, not as luxurious or as comfortable or as good a highway cruiser as a 7 Series or a Jaguar XJ, a Porsche Panamera or an S Class Mercedes but a good compromise for reasonable money.

Having said all the above, I will still strongly consider leasing the next car, based on multiple factors.
CA
 
#2,666 ·
The idea that a 3 year old car or a 6 year old car is slower, more dangerous, etc. than a new model or that after three years the car stops delivering some hypothetical mystical "experience" is ridiculous

CA
This is curious too.

The reason we drive BMW's and not Kia's is precisely because of the "experience". BMW's don't just handle better than the rest, but they are known for their technical innovations and their breakthroughs in engineering. So to say that the "experience" of owning 3 brand new BMW's over the last 7 years wouldn't have made the last decade more exciting either sells yourself short or sells BMW short.

I get the fact that you've got a Florida life and a New York life and that the convertible is just a sh-tkicker for the weekends, but for the same money you're going to spend all-in from 2007 to 2014 you could have had a lot more fun. The way I look at it is I've got 10 more 36 month leases left in my life before I'm too old to enjoy it or I'm just not here anymore. I'll be damned if I'm going to let $50 a month stand in the way of those precious few toys I'm still owed.

BJ
 
#2,669 · (Edited)
.
 
#2,675 ·
I was prepared to sign a lease deal on an M4 a few weeks ago but the numbers didn't make sense.

CA

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#2,697 · (Edited)
I see this debate is still alive after 108 pages and numerous threads. As someone who has owned many cars both new and CPO as well as payment made by cash, finance or lease I can attest that my viewpoint is not static. Why do you ask? Because the right decision depends on the circumstances. As long as I drive 30-45k miles a year (split over two cars), BMW sees fit to offer base lease rates of 2-3 percent, BMW sees fit to do residuals upwards of 60% for 3 years (15k) and BMW continues to allow me to buy excess miles at the rate of .16 cents a mile I will continue to lease a new BMW every 18-36 months. If you are me, there is no question that leasing makes sense. If you are Beden1 or Captainaudio then maybe not. I subscribe to the school of thought that the lower the annual rate of car usage the better it is to buy and hold. The opposite also holds true...the higher the annual rate of car usage the better it is to lease. I just find it makes more sense for me to get whatever I want at 500-800 a month and then buy the extra 45k miles at the rate of 200 a month and drive a perpetually new car. I am a busy guy and the last thing I need is to be on my way to court, a seminar, a client meeting, a deposition or whatever and the tranny blows up in my 200k mile BMW. Keep in mind, it takes me about 5.5-6.5 years to cover 200k miles. Is it cheaper if I buy, yeah maybe as long as I do not suffer any huge repairs bills. However, if I do then I am in the negative. Also, as BJ says, the extra few thousand I save buying just does not change my lifestyle enough to make it worth buying and holding. Leasing is a luxury and it makes my life easier just like having Verizon makes my life easier over having Metro PCS for cell service and having to stand on one leg to get one bar of signal strength. I am exaggerating, but you guys get my point. One size does not fit all and the smartest thing one can do is run the numbers both ways and pick the one that makes the most sense for you.
 
#2,701 ·
The opposite also holds true...the higher the annual rate of car usage the better it is to lease. I just find it makes more sense for me to get whatever I want at 500-800 a month and then buy the extra 45k miles at the rate of 200 a month and drive a perpetually new car.
Someone at work has similar high-mileage usage(100k in 3 years) and when he ran the numbers the BMW lease will cost close to $9k for the extra miles(e.g. 55k miles), while NADA/kbb/autotrader showed 3-year used cars(e.g. E9*) only take roughly $6k hit for that additional 55k miles. The 0.16/mile seems to have a cutoff, beyond which it can become costly.
 
#2,703 · (Edited)
Duplicate
 
#2,704 · (Edited)
Not too many are arguing that buying a new car every 3 years is a huge financial win when compared to leasing for 3 years- though it still works out that buying is a better financial deal even though BMW offers better lease rates than many others. The reason is that the greatest yearly depreciation occurs in the first 3 years. BMW wants the consumer to pay for this and turn around and sell the same car again in 3 years to someone else. This is a multiple win for BMW. They want to sell more cars, have people buy (lease them, but you're actually paying rent) a new car every 3 years instead of every nine years- 300% gain in new car sales. Since they're selling the car again when it's 3 years old they make a nice profit on the sale of the used same car too. JD Power and Consumer Reports numbers increase because people are reviewing newer cars. If someone has an issue BMW covers it under the maintenance agreement, so this inflates buyer satisfaction as well.

I love the 4 year/50,000 mile maintenance agreement that comes with purchasing or leasing a new car. It's great to know that my oil changes was part of the deal. Please don't be so naive to think that this was done for any other reason, but to lease and sell more cars. Even though local dealer charges $150 for an oil change, it's a very small net expense for BMW corporate.

Guys, BMW knows that many people want a shiny new car every 3 years. Just know that you're paying for that priviledge- BMW isn't doing you any financial favors by offering "great lease deals". They're just making it more enticing to rent (lease) a new BMW versus the competition. BMW is selling (leasing) 3 times as many cars compared to the person that buys and holds the car for 9 years. AND selling the car twice and profitting twice (at end of 3 year lease the second time by selling it as a Certified used vehicle).

The other thing that leasing allows is for some people to buy a car they couldn't normally afford. The issue is if the consumer continues leasing some are always renting a car they couldn't normally afford. The cycle continues and BMW leases (rents) cars to some people who normally couldn't afford to own the vehicle. This helps to achieve their goal of selling more cars.

I think this is a sophisticated crowd and know there's no free lunch. So whether the numbers work out to $200/month more, or $800/month more (please don't believe the "only $50/month" BS, know you're paying for the priviledge of renting a new car every 3 years. It's shiny, has a new car smell, the latest technology and it feels good, and feels really good for many, to have a new car more often. Celebrate it! Convince your wife it makes more financial sense.

That said, leasing can make financial sense for someone who owns their own business. The only true exception.

For some people who know they'll be driving 10,000 miles per year- very small number, so make sure this is true it makes more sense to lease. Some others that drive 12,000-15,000 miles/year. People who take care of their cars: every scratch, acorn dimple, dent, discolorization on the exterior of the car has potential to be your financial responsibility to fix or pay a fine to BMW. It's hugely expensive to lease for the over 20,000 miles/year crowd.

Since BMW has the 4 year/50,000 mile maintenance covered, you only pay for tires, wipers, brakes and a few other things- certainly peace of mind regarding major mechanical issues.

Now, since the largest % of depreciation occurs in the first 3 years, it stands to reason that buying a 3 year old car and hanging onto to it for many years is the best financial decision. The one exception is if you buy a lemon or even a lime. There is a risk when buying- one can still purchase an extended warranty and that would cover some of the years. However, if you don't buy a bad car it's irrefutable that it's the best strictly financial move to hang onto to it for years. CarFax is a great tool to uncover some bad apples out there.

Buying a brand new car and hanging onto it for many years is the second best financial move.

Leasing is still the worst of the three- speaking strictly financially.

I hate the "tying up money" argument for leasing. Interest rates are so low, and what percentage amongst us would be investing the money that would've been used on a down payment or outright buy?
 
#2,708 ·
Not too many are arguing that buying a new car every 3 years is a huge financial win when compared to leasing for 3 years
Oh, for sure I am. It just hasn't come up in a few months.

Buying for 36 months and re-selling doesn't save much money at all, and if you have but one accident, one fender-bender, that Carfax will send your savings right down the toilet. And you have to deal with taxes, titles, paperwork, private re-sale, local inventory, advertising, it's a ton of work and your time has value that would be better spent elsewhere. But if that $50 a month means that much, more power to you.

The more interesting debate is this:

Leasing is more expensive than buying. Buying is the cheaper way out. It blows up the myth from the 80's where leasing was the cheap way into a car you couldn't afford; it's the opposite now. Those with the money lease perpetually. Costs a bit more, but it's far more convenient and we can afford it. Those without the money buy and try to eke out a few bucks on resale. Saves a bit of money, but its far less convenient for those who can't really afford it.

BJ
 
#2,723 ·
Leasing is still the worst of the three- speaking strictly financially.

I hate the "tying up money" argument for leasing. Interest rates are so low, and what percentage amongst us would be investing the money that would've been used on a down payment or outright buy?
The people who talk about tying up money are the people who invest their money effectively. If people aren't talking about tying up money or don't have the discipline to invest, then it's true they won't understand the financial advantages of leasing.

I admit I am only one data point, but the 10 year annualized growth rate for my portfolio is 21% and yes that includes the 2008 meltdown. So let me do my lease numbers: 1) In 2013 I leased two $100k Bimmers. 2) Total cost for the 3yrs is $86k, including taxes and fees. 3) By leasing, I kept $200k invested; earning on average 21%. 4) My $200k will grow by $150,000 over three years. 5) My financial gain, offset by cost of the use two new premium cars and associated taxes, is about $40k or about 6% annualized. Yes, the cars are free and I'm still crushing the money market rates that buy & hold types seem to like to reference.

Now I could have just as easily financed, but my spreadsheet showed that leasing was cheaper than financing. People may choose not to believe my spreadsheet calculations, but the certainly work for me. Of course that is an apples to apples comparison of two new cars every three years.

Finally, I technically didn't use the $150k to pay for the my leases, since I paid for them out of my monthly cash flow. The $150k will remain invested, which is the golden rule for effective long term investing. So please don't tell me leases are only good for businesses or people who can't afford their cars. There are people out there who understand the benefits of minimal outlays associated with leasing and who understand the benefits of keeping their invested. These concepts are mutually beneficial.

P.S. Credit cards get paid off every month; no exceptions. That was the rule long before I could afford German cars and it is still the rule today.
 
#2,829 ·
Possibly the best post of the whole thread.

Men on an internet car forum, who could quite possibly be 17 year old boys, talking about their investment portfolios, financial planners and how much money they have.

I think the beating a dead horse icon was right on. Time for me to get back to planning my next Occupy rally...

BJ, do you have any Grey Poupon?

Over and out...
There is no point in lying, I've been posting here for almost a decade and will be happy to meet you in a neutral location in front of witnesses and share my W2's and Portfolio statements if it makes you happy.

You are struggling a bit with the Bimmerfest community in some aspects and you shouldn't. Understand please that for every 30-something newb here with a $32,000 320i there are a dozen 50-something veterans with a $60,000 335i. The lower priced 3 Series is only a few months old and you're an early adopter. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, you're driving a great car. But please understand that there are others in a different economic and age-related place than you are and we deserve your consideration as well. Calling us liars isn't proper. We aren't bragging about our money; we are using our real-world financial examples to help prove a point in a thread about economics.

BJ
 
#2,710 ·
I can afford to buy or lease pretty much any car I want within reason. Why would I want to buy someone else's 3 year old car, then have to wonder how was the car driven, etc. I like to drive a nice car, my payment is low and I'm looking forward to my next car in 18 months doing ED. Your argument about buying used vs. leasing new, is old news.... if I really wanted to spend less money, I would drive a fking moped to my office, or a some other low priced car.

What I really hate is that smug statement about leasing cars, because people can't afford to buy them. BMW offers incentivized leasing, so I only pay for the 36 percent I use. I added MSD's and away I went. I don't want to own an 8 year old anything. I could care less if it costs me an extra hundred a month, in the long run or whatever it is. I can easily live with my $340 per month lease payment. Life is waay too short. I have lost a good friend in the line of duty, no one knows when their time is up. Drive what you want, be happy in whatever choice you make.
 
#2,737 ·
I see, that makes sense

so I did some math for fun, buying vs leasing a new mini cooper S

MSRP 25,646
lease deal 259 $ assuming 0 down can be had
20,000 miles per year
5333 $ overage penalty

buying car and selling after 36 months for optimistic 16k with 60k miles

total out of pocket, 16,800 for lease, 16,000 for own after car is sold, not counting taxes and I'm doing rough numbers, if in accident it tilts farther towards lease being better dings/dents wash out on fee vs resale. If I did not buy used and own for 5+ years I would probably lease because the overage really screws resale up, and the overage penalty is just not that bad

monthly out of pocket is 526 $ with fees for overage vs 712 $ if 0 % interest, again simple math, couple that with resale hassle and leasing with the mini special is really tempting if I had to have new.
 
#2,748 · (Edited)
There's an awful lot of pure speculation going on here.

I have a friend who works in the Banking industry--he is in the credit card biz.
I was surprised to hear that in general terms, the Banks work on a 2% margin with credit cards.
Basically all the banks are going after that 2% (it is a big number relatively speaking).

Car dealers do not make as much profit selling a car as many might think. In fact, most dealers buy
their inventory by financing it.

A $340 BMW doesn't lack "options". It's been stripped of its BMWness. Most telling, BMW finally let power and performance be ripped out of the car to save a buck. Used to be you got the legendary handling for free; you have to pay for it now. I don't mind the strategy, keeps BMW moving forward, I like looking at the extra 3's on the roads, but it's not the same car.

This statement is way off target and ill informed. Though I do agree that at the very base level the handling (that elusive sport package) should be standard. A base 328i still has excellent handling and plenty of get up and go but only if you push a button. I also don't care for the start stop thing. BMW is attempting to market cars to the broadest possible audience. BMW never made a muscle car--the power thing is not what the company is about. It is about the overall driving experience and power alone is not, as many seem to think, what performance is about. (try turning or parking a drag racing car).

neither power nor performance have been "ripped out" it's there--in the base model.

Want more you pay for it.

There's always the Alpina's but then again most of the people yammering about lease vs buy probably can't afford one.
Peaple get the car they can afford (some stretch it a bit) and want given their circumstances. Relative to the competition out there
at the moment, the base 3 series competes nicely.
 
#2,752 ·
There's an awful lot of pure speculation going on here.

I have a friend who works in the Banking industry--he is in the credit card biz.
I was surprised to hear that in general terms, the Banks work on a 2% margin with credit cards.
Basically all the banks are going after that 2% (it is a big number relatively speaking).

Car dealers do not make as much profit selling a car as many might think. In fact, most dealers buy
their inventory by financing it.
Good point, a 1-2% margin of a very big number(across all credit cards) is very handsome profit. Similarly, a 2% margin on rate across 1 million BMWFS accounts(which include both lease and finance) can be very profitable for BMWFS too.

And let's not ignore the 1% money market rate, it may matter to some. :D
 
#2,750 ·
One more thing is that I don't consider a car to be a "depreciating asset", I consider it to be a consumable, a possession, that has some residual value. Is an iPhone a "depreciating asset" simply because you can sell it when you no longer want it and get some money for it? Not in my view.
 
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