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whats the point of a 3 series anymore?

51K views 658 replies 85 participants last post by  Robin128 
#1 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...


Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
 
#2 · (Edited)
You make good points. But obviously statistics are against those points.

The reality is, BMW wouldn't be making the 3-series if people weren't buying them. It fits into the small(er) sedan demographic, and it's certainly a step up from any accord/camry/maxima you can find. If you consider the handling of a BMW even remotely the same as a Accord then you made a mistake buying the car. The 3-series is more of an introduction into the luxury world than anything else. I don't see why people constantly criticize the interior of BMWs as being outdated. What are you expecting? To sit in a spaceship with 1,000s of buttons glowing and flashing different colors?

And just for the record, a 328 isn't designed to be raced, or have 400hp. If you wanted performance, you should have stuck with a 335i. That was your own negligence.

PS: I'm not trying to come off as sounding offended by your statements, just defending my opinions of the brand.
 
#4 ·
You make good points. But obviously statistics are against those points.

The reality is, BMW wouldn't be making the 3-series if people weren't buying them. It fits into the small(er) sedan demographic, and it's certainly a step up from any accord/camry/maxima you can find. If you consider the handling of a BMW even remotely the same as a Accord then you made a mistake buying the car. The 3-series is more of an introduction into the luxury world than anything else. I don't see why people constantly criticize the interior of BMWs as being outdated. What are you expecting? To sit in a spaceship with 1,000s of buttons glowing and flashing different colors? As for the money you paid, that is your own issue. No one told you to buy a brand new car. I can't see how people justify buying cars new anyway.

And just for the record, a 328 isn't designed to be raced, or have 400hp. If you wanted performance, you should have stuck with a 335i. That was your own negligence.

PS: I'm not trying to come off as sounding offended by your statements, just defending my opinions of the brand. You're more than welcome to keep your opinions. You wasted an incredible amount of money buying a car you obviously didn't do the research on.
I think you made some good points. I did not buy this new off the lot, i bought a demo for about13k off of list. I would NEVER have bought this car at sticker or near sticker. that said, i like the car for THAT price. My points still stand, the interior is dated especially compared to an audi. I know that a 328i is not a 335. but neither is a 320 which IMO is far worse a car than a 328 in the value standpoint and usually is a status seeker who wanted abmw,. but i digress. The handling on a bmw is superior to an accord of course but at a 328 or 320 level is that enough to offset the downsides in depreciation, cost and expense to maintain? i think not. the thrust of my argument is that competitors have taken the niche the 3 series had and destroyed it. I think the 3 will be hurt further by the switch to suv's also. Sedans are trending downward fast and an over priced, expensive to maintain, low value proposition car is not going to cut it...
 
#3 · (Edited)
Why are you whining about your decision to buy a BMW? If you don't like the car then move on to something that you do like.

This particular OPs posting habits are normally in this style, so this is nothing new. With that being said, the complaints of the OP are echoed by quite a few. I, Like you, dont understand all the angst and hand wringing. If one doesnt like the product, they shouldnt buy it. Very simple. Life is too short to complain about this type of stuff... just dont buy a BMW and buy the car you feel does what you want.
 
#5 ·
LOL, discussing the ups and downs of your car is honesty. Fanboys cant do that,. I am not whining i bought it, i own it and its my responsibilty for whatever happens no one elses. Having been in the car for 2 years, these are my observations on this particular car....
 
#6 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
How does the location of the local factory worker eliminate "German engineering"? All the BMW SUVs built here in the US--are they not "German engineering" either? Factory employees aren't the "engineers" of the vehicle--they just put it together. So more accurately, "so much for German assembly".
 
#8 ·
thats the 64k question. there are so many choices with their own ups or downs. I am a car guy as are most of the people here i imagine. I've always wanted a porsche, a corvette, etc i think the new 8 bmw will be a very cool car, but too expensive for me. Even though i have mentioned accords here in a philosophical discussion, they are too appliance like for me despite their workman like reliabilty etc. so the answer is i havent a clue yet but it will come to me lol
 
#13 ·
the interior is dated
This oft-repeated criticism is one I just don't get.

I love the clean, purposeful look of the cockpit on my 440i, and while it was also very nice, I didn't care for the digital bells and whistles of the Audi S5 I considered, and don't get me started on the utter mess that is the interior of the Infiniti Q60 RS. I also wasn't blown away by the interior design of the new Mercedes C coupe, but I'd already crossed that one off my list due to exterior styling that I don't like.

I don't need the dashboard of my vehicle to look like something from Star Trek. I need it to be ergonomic and functional to allow me to focus on Job #1 in the car...driving. The BMW has a classic interior that can be summed up by the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The design of the Rolex Submariner hasn't changed appreciably since 1954, but I don't hear too many watch aficionados calling it "dated".
 
#17 ·
I don't need the dashboard of my vehicle to look like something from Star Trek. I need it to be ergonomic and functional to allow me to focus on Job #1 in the car...driving.
Sure, but that can be achieved without using an ugly instrument cluster that looks like it was designed 35 years ago, including the hideous orange illumination at night. Retrofitting 6WB cluster solves this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFm5dgS9Ug
 
#15 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
Pretty much all your points have been valid about both BMW and MB since the 80's. Enough people see "value" in the cars for them personally to buy them. Many people don't, and buy Honda or whatever. "Value" in this case is not just money, but rather whatever factors are important to them (prestige, sport, comfort, luxury, whatever) in relation to the price tag.

For you the value is no longer there. No harm, no foul. That's why we have choices; stiff competition makes everything better for the consumer in the end. If enough people abandon BMW then BMW will change its strategy; however their strategy has been phenomenally successful so it appears they're on the right track for their corporate goals (which is to make money and gain marketshare, not to make cars for enthusiasts as many might think).
 
#16 ·
For you the value is no longer there. No harm, no foul. That's why we have choices; stiff competition makes everything better for the consumer in the end. If enough people abandon BMW then BMW will change its strategy; however their strategy has been phenomenally successful so it appears they're on the right track for their corporate goals (which is to make money and gain marketshare, not to make cars for enthusiasts as many might think).
In a way, building "driver's car" way back when was BMW's strategy to gain market share and revenue given no one else did it as well as BMW.

Now that every competitor homes in on the driving dynamics and such, BMW adjusts by offering products that fit customer's needs, and make their products, say, 15% better, at 35% price premium, that the competitors, at the scale/volume that BMW is selling.

So far BMW's strategies have been working.
 
#21 ·
I get where the OP is coming from, and I think it's quite OK to critique your car. BMW and other manufacturers pay lots of money to get accurate feedback from customers so why not here, where people really care about their cars?

When I think of my MY2017 330i, I think of a solid, capable, comfortable, well rounded car that also looks fantastic. I have found the dealership experience also to be quite good. The leasing cost is quite digestible, but for my next car I think I want to purchase and hold for a long time like I used to do, and for that BMW may not be the best route.

These cars are not only expensive, they are expensive within their own segment. From what I see, the gap between the everyman cars and this entry level luxury segment has narrowed considerably. Many of the more prized features, namely safety gear, are included at little or no cost in the everyman cars whereas BMW sees them as a cash cow. They will soon have no choice but to include these features but of course will then have to find a way to raise the base price even more.

The main issue I have with the F30 is that it is nice in many ways, but isn't special enough to warrant its price differential. Beyond the powertrain, which is a standout, I can't point to anything that creates the kind of separation from mainstream cars that the price difference would suggest. Also, over time, I see so many things that BMW cuts corners on, that, to me, erode the ownership experience. Tinted glass? Sorry fellow. Those cheap caps on the 12V outlets instead of proper hinged covers? You have to be kidding. No height adjustment for the safety belts. No daytime luminescence of the instrument cluster. The ridiculous lock/unlock toggle button that gives you no clue whether you just locked or unlocked all the doors. The underpowered sound systems. The questionable marriage to run flat tires. The withholding of features within iDrive that would cost them nothing to include, leaving customers to seek out 3rd party hacking solutions. How does all this develop customer loyalty to the brand?

Without the standout performance or features that create separation, is BMW just relying on brand cache to keep prices where they are? Can that last indefinitely? It will be interesting to see.
 
#27 ·
I get where the OP is coming from, and I think it's quite OK to critique your car. BMW and other manufacturers pay lots of money to get accurate feedback from customers so why not here, where people really care about their cars?

When I think of my MY2017 330i, I think of a solid, capable, comfortable, well rounded car that also looks fantastic. I have found the dealership experience also to be quite good. The leasing cost is quite digestible, but for my next car I think I want to purchase and hold for a long time like I used to do, and for that BMW may not be the best route.

These cars are not only expensive, they are expensive within their own segment. From what I see, the gap between the everyman cars and this entry level luxury segment has narrowed considerably. Many of the more prized features, namely safety gear, are included at little or no cost in the everyman cars whereas BMW sees them as a cash cow. They will soon have no choice but to include these features but of course will then have to find a way to raise the base price even more.

The main issue I have with the F30 is that it is nice in many ways, but isn't special enough to warrant its price differential. Beyond the powertrain, which is a standout, I can't point to anything that creates the kind of separation from mainstream cars that the price difference would suggest. Also, over time, I see so many things that BMW cuts corners on, that, to me, erode the ownership experience. Tinted glass? Sorry fellow. Those cheap caps on the 12V outlets instead of proper hinged covers? You have to be kidding. No height adjustment for the safety belts. No daytime luminescence of the instrument cluster. The ridiculous lock/unlock toggle button that gives you no clue whether you just locked or unlocked all the doors. The underpowered sound systems. The questionable marriage to run flat tires. The withholding of features within iDrive that would cost them nothing to include, leaving customers to seek out 3rd party hacking solutions. How does all this develop customer loyalty to the brand?

Without the standout performance or features that create separation, is BMW just relying on brand cache to keep prices where they are? Can that last indefinitely? It will be interesting to see.
Congrats, i think you nailed it better than i did.....:thumbup:
 
#23 · (Edited)
I think the OP message has some merit because the 3 Series (and the segment in general) is too often over hyped in the mainstream automotive media (it helps sales)...remember the laughable, epic C&D comparo where the M3 won a against a Porsche 911 Turo and a Nissan GT-R?? People often believe that crap and take it as a gospel of truth....it's like taking Jeremy Clarkson seriously when he crushed a 911....
He/she is not the first person I come across that when finally can get his/her hands on the much desired small sedan with the roundel badge ask himself/herself "That's it??

In Europe they have a much more "prosaic" take on the 3 Series...is a fun to drive, decently built compact sporty sedan....is a very common company car for sales people (most of them are diesel), they come standard with cloth seat, etc.....it is in the US the we make entry/mid level BMW models something more than what they are.

To me the 3 Series that start to be really somehow "special" is the 335/340i with its turbo straight six (which despite the bigger engine is still perfectly balanced)

I would never ever spend 50K for an optioned 4 banger 3 Series with its indifferent/average build quality.....there are simply much better options elsewhere.
 
#44 ·
I just laugh when a German luxury car get's compared to lawnmower rice. That's like saying why buy a Lexus when you have a Toyota at $10k cheaper. Yall need to re-evaluate your comparisons.

Keep in mind I am a Mercedes guy and I absolutely don't prefer BMW to it, but if you want price quality ration for luxury cars, BMW is one of the better options. Similarly equipped Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac of the same class don't get as much incentives. Also, FWD is absolute garbage.
 
#47 ·
Keep in mind I am a Mercedes guy and I absolutely don't prefer BMW to it, but if you want price quality ration for luxury cars, BMW is one of the better options. Similarly equipped Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac of the same class don't get as much incentives. Also, FWD is absolute garbage.
And honorable mention has to go to Porsche too in the incentives(or lack of) category.
 
#45 ·
for the many threads i have read here and at other forums it's: the aggressive look of the car, lease/used car deal, brand prestige, 4 doors, horsepower (and tuning potential), promise of good handling

i don't think honda accord covers those things above
 
#53 ·
When I saw this thread, I knew exactly how it was going to turn out. I even knew (for the most part) which posters would choose to participate in this thread, and almost exactly what points they would make.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Sorry folks, but I came to my 440i Coupe after two 8-year stints in a 2003 and 2011 Honda Accord Coupe V6. So I have nearly two decades worth of driving and ownership experience in Honda***8217;s flagship 2-door (R.I.P.), and as much as I loved those cars (especially the second), there is simply no comparison between them and my new BMW in terms of performance, refinement, and yes, prestige. I don***8217;t recall either of my Accords ever meriting a comment from a total stranger in the 16 years I drove them, and in the first week of driving my 440i I***8217;ve had two positive reactions from complete strangers. Now this isn***8217;t a reason I buy a car, but it***8217;s certainly interesting.
A 440i ain't a 320i...or a 328i.....the straight 6 engine 3/4 Series is where these cars start to be appealing (IMHO).

A 4 Series is a much more attractive car on the outside than a 3 Series.

You can get a compliment with a Mustang..that does not make it prestigious.
 
#68 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
Yes. A BMW is reassuringly expensive to buy and own.

There are standards.

 
#73 · (Edited)
lol, the 3 as many have said is not is aprestige car, so its a daily driver. a daily driver should be reliable, good value and easy to maintain. so by your own standards. whats the point of a
3 series?:confused:

i understand why there is a 5 6 7 8 series but my question remains, why a 3 series with these attributes?
 
#70 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
What's the point of an Accord anymore?
 
#75 · (Edited)
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
I agree with most of what you said. I bought the 328i which was not top of the line but it was expensive compared to the competition and I don't really feel it is any better than an Accord. It was 20% more than an Accord, and now used is worth 20% less than an Accord of the same model year. It is not more fun. It is not nicer inside, it does not get better gas mileage, my BMW is better in snow. I do not feel like I got value for the premium price paid.

On the Porsche I feel like I got premium value for what I paid because it smokes most things in refinement, and fun and all kinds of intangibles that car lovers want in a car. The stereo sucks but oh well. I have not tired, nor do I think I will ever grow tired of that car and plan to keep it forever. You see people that are the original owners of older BMW models because they LOVED the car. The current 3 series is just a disposable throwaway and not a classic by any stretch. I can't find many who truly LOVE the car and can't part with it.

So on the next car I will just spend small money getting a GTI which is at the same level of performance as a 328i for half the cost and spend the money on more cars for the stable that give me the value, fun or pleasure I seek. I could see adding a well used 240i down the road as a keeper, but not at the price of new. It is not worth $50k and not even close.

My 3 series is nice, but there is no value in buying a BMW. Lease or skip it all together.

Am I mad? I am only upset with the whole timing chain BS and think BMW should have done better with a 10/100 instead of 7/70 to protect people who actually bought the car instead of leased. But I can only be upset otherwise with myself because if it is wasted money, I chose to waste it. :dunno: Buyers remorse is the buyers fault. Except on things like the timing chain which are little unpleasant surprises that are the fault of the manufacturer.
 
#85 ·
I adore my M2.

Not perfect - but what is? - the thought of driving my M2 puts a giant smile on my face. The M2 offers a great performance experience that is accessable. A drive to Whole Fopods is an adventure, Summit Point is an orgasm.

My M2 and I are totally simpatico.
This is how I look at my car. No car is without flaws, but don't you get a big smile while diving it?

I've never found another brand where 100mph feels like 60mph.
 
#97 ·
IMO, it’s the RWD and 50-50 weight balance that sets 3-series apart from other competitors mentioned, which goes down to the engineering factor. Some are willing to pay the price differential, and there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I smile every time I glance at the roundel when approaching my car. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside :)

I agree that “comparable” cars may offer more flashy gimmicks, but I prefer the understated German approach to design. The only car which I would compare, engineering-wise, is KIA Stinger, which basically used 3-series blueprint to copy the 335/340. But Kia has a long way to go to snatch away the love that many have for BMW brand. Maybe in a few generations, but things will have changed a lot by then.

To each his/her own. Value is basically a matter of perception.



Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
 
#100 · (Edited)
I test drove a Q60 Red Sport when shopping for my latest car, and other than the sublime V6 and striking exterior, the Infiniti doesn't hold a candle to the 440i. If the BMW interior can be called "dated", the Infiniti's should be called "schizophrenic" with an utterly horrible infotainment system. And not very many positive words have been written about the 7-speed auto in that car.
I own a Q50S.....I agree on the infotainment system (my Grand Cherokee UConnect runs circles around it) visually nice but functionally obtuse....and the transmission...that 7 speed is way too slow and dated...but the look (inside and outside) of the Q60, in turn, run circles, IMHO, around a 4 Series....it would be a very tough choice if I were in the market for a couple like that....I have a soft spot for the turbocharged BMW straight 6 but the new Nissan twin turbo V6 is a monster....between the two maybe I would take the Camaro route with its awe inspiring V8!!! LOL :thumbup:
 
#106 ·
I own a Q50S.....I agree on the infotainment system (my Grand Cherokee UConnect runs circles around it) visually nice but functionally obtuse....and the transmission...that 7 speed is way too slow and dated...but the look (inside and outside) of the Q60, in turn, run circles, IMHO, around a 4 Series....it would be a very tough choice if I were in the market for a couple like that....I have a soft spot for the turbocharger BMW straight 6 but the new Nissan twin turbo V6 is a monster....between the two maybe I would take the Camaro route with its awe inspiring V8!!! LOL :thumbup:
Believe it or not, I cross-shopped a Camaro 2SS, added it to my list after having a 1SS as a rental for a couple of days. If I was younger and going to track the car a lot, that would've put me in the Chevy for sure. GM has done amazing things with that vehicle in terms of performance-for-price. It comes at the cost of little in the way of interior refinement, essentially no back seat, and visibility similar to that of a WWII tank. They absolutely ruined the looks with the hideous front-end restyle on the 2019, IMO. But when you push the start button and that V8 fires up? Damn... You can't help but get a silly grin on your face.

The interior look of the Q60 "runs circles" around the 4-series? Nah. Unless you're into blingy trim and gauges, maybe. But that's one of those subjective things that people love to make objective statements about, such as calling the BMW interior style "dated" when it could just as easily be termed "classic".
 
#101 ·
I adore my M2.

Not perfect - but what is? - the thought of driving my M2 puts a giant smile on my face. The M2 offers a great performance experience that is accessable. A drive to Whole Fopods is an adventure, Summit Point is an orgasm.

My M2 and I are totally simpatico.
Probably the only car in the BMW lineup that I'm drooling over right now is an M2 Competition with CF roof and hood.

My wife and I have been debating what to swap her X5 for; she's offered to take my 335i and let me get something new. I'm debating between a Cayman and some form of 2-series. The 230i is light and tossable, the M240i has the I6 but more weight in the nose, and the M2 would be wild but total overkill for our needs.
 
#113 · (Edited)
Just about the only thing I see as being "special" with my car is the Estoril Blue Color... LOL! It is hard to disagree with the Original Poster and when you add the tremendous depreciation, it is very hard to justify the purchase. Having said that, This past weekend, I went the dealer because I was "itching" to see a low mileage 2015 CPO 335i ($30K) As I was waiting, I noticed that they had a bunch of 2018 CPO 430i Grand Coupe series for about $35K (corporate owned cars with 6k to 10K miles on them) , The original sticker for these cars with whatever packages ranged for about $48K to $50K. These are great deals when compared to a new Accord Touring for $34K...... These cars have been so discounted that if you can live with the right color combination, it would make a great "BMW" car purchase. However, the Accord will probably be worth about $17K to $20K 5 years from now and the BMW might be worth about $10 to 12K

Both the Accord and the Camry are getting closer and closer to the 3 series, but they are not "prestigious" brands. Not sure they will give anyone a "smile" every time the get behind the wheels of these cars. I think Acura and Infiniti are probably the ones that need to worry. Dont get me wrong, I am just as upset with with the amount of depreciation my car has taken. but I will be the first one here to say, I would never buy it new. But when you look at Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, etc, they are all worth crap when you go sell them ... Very few people want these cars out of warranty. But when it comes to the Japanese brands that is just not the case. The reputation for being reliable is built into the price when one goes to sell it which explains the better "investment"
 
#114 ·
Both the Accord and the Camry are getting closer and closer to the 3 series,
No, they are not getting closer to a 3 Series...they have a total different mission, they are roomy FWD midsize sedans for cruising...the Accord has a sportier handling than a Camry but it ain't 3 Series, gadget wise yes, driving experience wise no...
In terms of quality of construction, when you take away the (optional) lipstick on the BMW, they have been at the same level of the 3 Series for quite some time if not better in some areas.
 
#123 ·
Full disclaimer, i own a 328i, i like it overall but hence my post...

Thye are overly expensive new in relation to value and the thing depreciates like a rock thrown off a cliff, its expensive to maintain and repair, the power is similar to an accord, the handling is fun but nothing special, it gets good gas mileage but so do others in its class, the interior is dated and looks like next generation is just a regurgitation.The new one will be made by 2 dollar an hour employees in mexico, so much for german engineering I think the light has gone off and the competitors have passed bmw. This will be my last bmw.
But strangely enough...they still have that look.

Wonder if they'll bring one out that really looks like the E type legend of the 60s?
 
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