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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

94K views 792 replies 102 participants last post by  sf_loft 
#1 ·
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_show...t_2013_cadillac_ats_first_look/#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
 
#2 ·
First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo
 
#3 ·
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.:)
 
#4 ·
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine
 
#5 ·
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine
There heritage is how the car drives, and thats to say its the benchmark of its class..
 
#6 ·
I'll definitely give the turbo and V6 models a look. I've loved my BMWs but they've been... sorta unreliable. If Caddy can deliver 95% of the driving experience for the same or probably less money then that's awesome. Sadly at this point the 3 series still lacks real competitors but I hope this car changes that.
 
#9 ·
Cadillac is coming out with great enthusiast-minded products lately. CTS-V = that's no grandpa car folks. If the steering feel on this ATS is better than the F30, I'll consider it. (Besides, people might treat me nicer on the road and not give me this douche stereotype crap, LOL)
 
#11 ·
Good for Cadillac. They have gotten their act together in recent years with some great offerings. I looked seriously at both the CTS and SRX in recent years. Vast improvements in performance, reliability, fit/finish, and quality of interior materials. But I always walked off the lot impressed but not swayed. I still think they are a half-step behind BMW and others but their effort and the competition it brings tothe market is great for us all.
 
#14 · (Edited)
This is a very good thing. Competition will force BMW to stay on their toes. It would be great if another car manufacturer, be it Cadillac, Audi, Merc, or whoever, made a line as good as the E46. You know bmw would be embarrassed if they succeeded, and you know we'd all be getting a baby M3 as the next 3 series if that happened. We all should be proud of Cadillac for setting their goals on making a great drivers car.
 
#15 ·
Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is none of them can offer the driving experience the 3 series can.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Yes, in theory, because they say it in marketing literature. But, in reality I don't think their engineering depts are given the latitude to really try. Audi?.. seems to only try on their S4. Merc? ...tries more on comfort and luxury on their competing line. Porsche? ..no sedans in the same price range. Caddy? ..seem to be trying. Acura? ..hasn't seemed to figure out yet what they want to be. Lexus? ..nope. Volvo? ..I don't even wanna..

Marketing, and actual attempt, is a very different thing. Audi has been very successful in what they've been doing..but what they've been doing is not really trying to compete head on with the 3-series. Same goes for Merc.
 
#19 ·
It is not just Caddy but GM in general has done some good things lately.

Their new Cruze Eco is easily the most fuel economical petrol-only car, and the most fun to drive in its class too.

GM definitely has the engineering capability, the only thing they need is the will. Now they had sorted out the financial issues maybe they will finally have a real focus.

Competition is good, but meaningful competition is better.
 
#21 · (Edited)
It is not just Caddy but GM in general has done some good things lately..

..GM definitely has the engineering capability, the only thing they need is the will. Now they had sorted out the financial issues maybe they will finally have a real focus.

Competition is good, but meaningful competition is better.
Totally agree.

... I think manufacturers are getting tired of getting their teeth kicked in by the 3-series. This only makes BMW step up their game apparently. Thank god.
^--- this too.
 
#20 ·
Though not my cup of tea, I think that car as well as others will be seriously worthy adversaries for the 3-series. I think manufacturers are getting tired of getting their teeth kicked in by the 3-series. This only makes BMW step up their game apparently. Thank god.
 
#22 ·
I have to give Cadillac some props for building this car. They definitely have their act together. Look at them versus the quagmire that is Lincoln. But seriously, unless pricing is at a substantial discount, why would anyone considering a 3 series take a gamble on a new GM model? Infiniti G, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, Volvo S60,Lexus IS... the segment is crowded with mature proven models and none of the aforementioned have been able to knock BMW 3 series off it's gilded pedestal. If I was looking to save a few bucks and still get a great car a G37 would be up there, but a Cadillac ATS? I guess since so many people lease now a days, if the lease pricing is aggressive this thing may rent well.
 
#23 ·
Even Infiniti has to seriously undercut in price. I agree ATS must be very price competitive.

On the other hand we have Buick already making their compact sport sedan's price at the level of Toyota and Honda.

The lease programs for the CTSs were very aggressive as well, at the level of the 3 series, but the CTS is in the same category as the 5.
 
#24 ·
I understand that crystal red is a classical Cadillac color, but I also do not think it is a coincidence that they chose this color to market initial press of the vehicle. BMW has chosen melbourne red as its marketing color and so Cadillac went right after them.



It sure is a very nice car, and the interior has been vastly improved over the CTS (imo). If I hadn't been driving a Cadillac for 6 years now, I would definitely be considering this vehicle. If pricing is competitive, BMW will have their hands full as this car has what some would perceive a better engine and more refined interior. The "lines" may very well come to bite BMW NA in the ass if Cadillac offers more flexibility in ordering.
 
#34 ·
Reporting from the Detroit Auto Show I am sad to report that in my opinion the ATS in person is disappointing. It doesn't stand out, the styling is surprisingly un-edgy in person, the door handles feel cheap and the interior is poorly implemented. I was more excited about this car on paper, in person for me it isn't a BMW killer. Yes it will take sales away from the 3 for some buyer, but it's not on par with Audi and BMW for build quality, styling or interior.

Tim
 
#38 · (Edited)
For my part I'll definitely give it a look when it comes time to shop again. I keep coming back to BMW precisely because nothing gives me the same driving experience as a well built and tuned Bavarian motor car... but that doesn't meant that I'm sold on the brand.

I think that Cadillac are actually doing it right. The problem I've seen with many manufacturers is that they always target the CURRENT 3-series for their competitive products (witness Audi, Infiniti et al). While the E9x is a damned fine car, I've always felt that it was softer, more mature and "older" than the E46. I loved my E46 and though I liked the E9x I never loved it. That's why I went with an E82 (1'er) in the end; it was far closer to the E46 than the E9x ever managed, though it has gobs more power and technology my poor E46 could only dream of. I hang around this forum because I'm watching the F3x carefully for my next car, and although I'm reserving judgment until I've had a chance to drive one (or more) I must say that so far the reports I'm reading make it sound like BMW have continued on the same trajectory they started with the E9x. That disappoints me because I had hoped the F3x was a more "back to the heritage" sort of car. Again though I'm making no assumptions until I have actually put a few miles on one.

The fact that Cadillac are looking at the E46 for inspiration is in itself interesting. The E46 is still intensely well regarded by auto enthusiasts even outside BMW enthusiasts. The E9x though is seen as a great car though a little "lost" in its connection to BMW traditions. Sure, the E46 had its share of problems (like the self-detonating cooling system) but the driving experience was what made it, and kept it at the forefront. Quite apart from everything else, BMW made far too many compromises with the suspension in order to switch to run-flats... compromises that took 5 years to tune to what we finally ended up with in the last couple of years of the E9x. That gave early E9x's a "busy" feeling on the highways that was tiring over long drives and resulted in a certain amount of understeer that is "un-BMW-like". Sure you could replace the RFT's but then you end up with a car with far softer suspension than it needs and it (in my opinion) feels worse. Later E9x's fixed a lot of these sins, but there's still a certain softness to the suspension even in the last E9x's that doesn't go away until you upgrade yourself to the M3... which has no RFT's and far better suspension.

I am glad to see someone looking at what driving enthusiasts want and trying to fill that niche. I am also glad to see Cadillac doing it; they weren't always the "codger-mobile" manufacturer. There was a time they were respected for building luxury sports sedans that beat the hell out of everything else out there... though this was long before I was born and well before BMW unleashed the 2002 on the world.

As an aside though, I am holding out hope for the F3x. When I was in Germany I was driving a new F10 5'er and I was heartily impressed with that car. While it was still a far bigger car than I wanted, it managed somehow to feel smaller than my E60 when it counted... while managing to feel like a large and comfortable chariot when I needed it to be. Of course, there were aspects I didn't like; it took the E60 idea of using technology instead of engineering to overcome chassis "sins" to a whole new level and so there were times that driving it felt more like a video game than actually driving a car. But it was still far better than I expected it to be when I first heard I'd be getting that as a loaner.

If nothing else, actual good competition will maybe push F3x mid-cycle refresh to be a far better car. Not to say it won't be good out of the gate... but higher stakes in this game can't hurt the consumer.
 
#48 ·
For my part I'll definitely give it a look when it comes time to shop again. I keep coming back to BMW precisely because nothing gives me the same driving experience as a well built and tuned Bavarian motor car... but that doesn't meant that I'm sold on the brand.

I think that Cadillac are actually doing it right. The problem I've seen with many manufacturers is that they always target the CURRENT 3-series for their competitive products (witness Audi, Infiniti et al). While the E9x is a damned fine car, I've always felt that it was softer, more mature and "older" than the E46. I loved my E46 and though I liked the E9x I never loved it. That's why I went with an E82 (1'er) in the end; it was far closer to the E46 than the E9x ever managed, though it has gobs more power and technology my poor E46 could only dream of. I hang around this forum because I'm watching the F3x carefully for my next car, and although I'm reserving judgment until I've had a chance to drive one (or more) I must say that so far the reports I'm reading make it sound like BMW have continued on the same trajectory they started with the E9x. That disappoints me because I had hoped the F3x was a more "back to the heritage" sort of car. Again though I'm making no assumptions until I have actually put a few miles on one.

The fact that Cadillac are looking at the E46 for inspiration is in itself interesting. The E46 is still intensely well regarded by auto enthusiasts even outside BMW enthusiasts. The E9x though is seen as a great car though a little "lost" in its connection to BMW traditions. Sure, the E46 had its share of problems (like the self-detonating cooling system) but the driving experience was what made it, and kept it at the forefront. Quite apart from everything else, BMW made far too many compromises with the suspension in order to switch to run-flats... compromises that took 5 years to tune to what we finally ended up with in the last couple of years of the E9x. That gave early E9x's a "busy" feeling on the highways that was tiring over long drives and resulted in a certain amount of understeer that is "un-BMW-like". Sure you could replace the RFT's but then you end up with a car with far softer suspension than it needs and it (in my opinion) feels worse. Later E9x's fixed a lot of these sins, but there's still a certain softness to the suspension even in the last E9x's that doesn't go away until you upgrade yourself to the M3... which has no RFT's and far better suspension.

I am glad to see someone looking at what driving enthusiasts want and trying to fill that niche. I am also glad to see Cadillac doing it; they weren't always the "codger-mobile" manufacturer. There was a time they were respected for building luxury sports sedans that beat the hell out of everything else out there... though this was long before I was born and well before BMW unleashed the 2002 on the world.

As an aside though, I am holding out hope for the F3x. When I was in Germany I was driving a new F10 5'er and I was heartily impressed with that car. While it was still a far bigger car than I wanted, it managed somehow to feel smaller than my E60 when it counted... while managing to feel like a large and comfortable chariot when I needed it to be. Of course, there were aspects I didn't like; it took the E60 idea of using technology instead of engineering to overcome chassis "sins" to a whole new level and so there were times that driving it felt more like a video game than actually driving a car. But it was still far better than I expected it to be when I first heard I'd be getting that as a loaner.

If nothing else, actual good competition will maybe push F3x mid-cycle refresh to be a far better car. Not to say it won't be good out of the gate... but higher stakes in this game can't hurt the consumer.
:thumbup: Agreed. Perfectly written.
 
#43 ·
I don't mind the car and I'd super tempted that a diesel will be offered. Something BMW hasn't confirmed. I am seriously considering an F30 in a couple years, but this will be interesting.

My only issues are that only ******** drive Cadillacs and my local Cadillac dealer is apart of a sleazy Chevy dealer. I refuse to go and get my luxury car serviced by the same people that bring Aveos. I'm sorry. I'm not sold yet. So there's a lot of tech, but will it work? Ford pushed the whole MyTouch system and it turned out to be a POS. I doubt GM could one-up them. I'll give Cadillac another generation before I seriously put my money down
 
#55 ·
My only issues are that only ******** drive Cadillacs and my local Cadillac dealer is apart of a sleazy Chevy dealer.
Same thing here and I think this is a widespread problem with Cadillac and until they address it will be a big obstacle in stealing BMW customers.

Even if I drove an ATS and absolutely loved the car, the dealer setup here would really make me hesitant to buy.
 
#56 ·
The ATS or ATS-V would have to be more raw or hardcore than the 3 series for me to want it, cause if they're just trying to do luxury sport, BMW does that better.

The CTS-V has that sweet V8, I don't think I'd be as excited about a V with a V6. I think the Corvette V8 is pretty light, so maybe they can use it.
 
#62 · (Edited)
I had the luxury of attending the CTS-V gen 2 launch event at Monticello Motorsports Park in 2008, right before the crash and the bankruptcy. No expense was spared. I still have the monogrammed jacket. Of course there was no charge. I'd seen Lexus charge as much as $300 for a similar event.

I spent most of the day driving regular CTS models, which I actually liked a lot. I'd like them better if they were at a discount to BMW/Audi/MB. The only serious knock I had was the interior and ergonomics, but I felt they got the driving dynamics right. The V6 I felt was more brutish than BMW's silky inline six, but with the 320i coming to the US market that advantage is gone at the sub-$50k price point. The manual shifter in the CTS was mounted laughably far back from the driver, as if they just poked the new tranny in where the auto used to go. It was slightly better in the CTS-V.

If the US had 100% import taxes, I'd drive a CTS.

Look at how high and close to the wheel Porsche is putting the shift knob in the 991:
 

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#63 · (Edited)
Has anyone here ever even seen a Cadilac ATS let alone driven one?

As for the "badge" argument. Any company that is depending on their "image" to sell their product and does not consistantly deliver a quality product will not retain their "image" for long. It happened to Cadillac ("The Mark of Excellence") and it could easily happen to the ultimate driving machine. I would not spend my money on any car that I perceived to be an inferior product regardless of what its image or heritage is (or was). As they say in the music business "you are only as good as your last hit record". Athough I think it is unlikely that Cadillacs first attempt will beat BMW at its own game I will reserve my opinion until I have driven both an ATS and an F30.


Let's face it with the mentality of some of the people here it does not matter how the ATS turns out to be they will be still claim that it can not possibly be as good as a BMW.


CA
 
#66 ·
Here are a few pictures from the Detroit Auto Show of the ATS







Generally I would say the ATS lacks some of the aggressiveness that the CTS has and it honestly felt a little cheap to me. As we all know, it really comes down to how the car drives but the car was a let down to me from reading about it vs. seeing it in person. The interior I just thought was awful....

There are a ton more pictures of all things non-BMW from the show here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/bmw-photos/26/2012-NAIAS-Auto-Show-Non-BMW/
 
#67 ·
Things are changing a lot....the competition to me is unreal, with the Koreans bringing out cars like the Hyundai Elantra, Sonata, Kia Optima, etc.

The new Ford Fusion looks like an Aston Martin...

And it seems like cycles are turning faster...

I predict BMW is really going to start getting squeezed, and here's why...BMW is the last, decent sized truly independent automaker.

I think they are going to eventually succumb to cost cutting measures like we have already seen in the current 3 series..and now with the introduction of lines, it reduces their assembly cost (and reduces the customers' choice).

Each year it seems like competitors get closer and closer, and the Americans are producing some amazing vehicles compare to what they were making just 10 years ago.

They are stylish, reliable, and loaded with technology and features. But most of all, they are almost ALWAYS significantly cheaper, along with the Japanese like Acura and Infiniti.

Now Lexus is taking aim at producing sporty cars, and don't think they won't be able to do it..they might miss on their first attempt, but they are capable just like BMW is.

I just don't see how BMW is going to be able to continue producing the 3 series at a competitive price with their labor, costs and poor European economy....unless they outsource production to US/China.

The ultimate question is....if the Cadillacs, Infiniti's etc of the world produce a car that is 8/10ths the performance, significantly less expensive, and more reliable (which they are), is driving a BMW still a good value proposition?

I'm not so sure any longer.
 
#69 ·
The ultimate question is....if the Cadillacs, Infiniti's etc of the world produce a car that is 8/10ths the performance, significantly less expensive, and more reliable (which they are), is driving a BMW still a good value proposition?

I'm not so sure any longer.
I think this becomes a very complex question and it may have different answers depending on whether its coming from a car person or not. There's more to a car than just performance, reliability and cost. There's durability, "feel", safety, quality of materials, ...

For example, I sat in one of the Hyudai's at the mall and just couldn't stand the strong chemical smell of the interior. Sure that may wear off with time, but to me it speaks volumes about the quality of the materials used to build the car.
 
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