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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

94K views 792 replies 102 participants last post by  sf_loft 
#1 ·
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_show...t_2013_cadillac_ats_first_look/#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
 
#227 ·
That price for the highest end ATS just lost them the battle for we even found out if there was going to be one. Ridiculous. What the hell are Cadillac thinking? "Nobody takes us seriously, but we're going to take on BMW, so let's make our car, which everyone expects to suck, more expensive than BMW's"
 
#230 ·
So the pricing is out and it's not good:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/09/gm-prices-cadillac-ats-33990/

The base model with the sad 2.5 4cylinder engine is 34k.
Turbo model is 36k
V6 model is 42k.

The turbo ATS model is priced the same as the 328i and the V6 model is a grand chepaer than the 335i for a bigger, heavier engine.

Caddy made a big blunder here. What is the advantage of the ATS if the pricing is the same? Yeah, maybe it will have leather standard so maybe 1-2k cheaper than equivalent 3 but really unless ATS starts at 4-5k cheaper, I can't see why one would opt for the Caddy.
 
#246 · (Edited)
The 2012 6mt Chevy Cruze Eco I had, had leather wrapped steering, factory alarm, floor mats and a shift knob with better look and feel, compared to my 328i that is priced twice as much but had none of the above. It also went twice the distance per gallon of fuel than the 328i.

But somehow I am glad I am back in my 328i.:) I agree though the F30 has moved too far to the luxury side. I suppose the Europeans had it right, calling the 3 "executive sedan," not sporty sedan.
 
#248 · (Edited)
The problem is that BMW is even more expensive than other options in the same luxury segment... let me put it this way... my day long test drive in a base 328i almost sunk my ability to convince her we should order one, because my wife HATED it. It didn't even have power seats or the ability to play music off of her iPhone (something that we take for granted now as even cheap rentals have these features).

But I digress.... obviously BMW can get away with it, primarily (I think) through inflated lease residuals.
 
#252 · (Edited)
I'm not going to argue that with a switch from hydraulic to electric steering that the steering feel of the E90 is probably better than the F30. However, even if the steering feel is not as good in sporty driving, that's not looking at the entire package.... the overall verdict is that all around the F30 is the better automobile.... despite what some of the E90 faithful believe (hell, up until the F30 came out the E46 crowd were still crowing about the E90 being inferior to the E46 in most ways).

If steering feel is your #1 priority in an automobile and is more important than engine performance, safety, fuel economy, transmission (8 speed AT), etc, then sure, get an E90 instead.
 
#254 · (Edited)
Agreed. IMO the E90 is a let down in terms of driving dynamics when compared to a Sport Pack E46, however it still retains a lot of BMW's DNA that made the brand what it is today. The F30 overall is a better car then the E90 but it is not longer what BMW is about. I can say the same with the current 5 series as well.
 
#257 ·
Well, you are comparing a car with a tech package that includes full GPS, iPod/phone integration, etc, to a BMW that has a stripped down i-drive that can't do much of anything. Not a fair comparison IMO. To a lot of buyers, the tech features are just as important as the heated leather seats.
 
#261 ·
I have the stripped down I-Drive and it has all that I need. I don't need to be able to update my Facebook status while driving down the road. I don't need to make 8 phone calls. I don't need to stream in music from my phone.

Here's a thought.......drive the damn car without crashing. It's funny how everyone complains about how BMW is softening their cars up and getting away from the "driving experience" yet those are the same people that don't pay attention when driving and put all of the technology in their cars that help them forgot how to do things like staying in your lane or parking. There's some irony.
 
#274 ·
So the base ATS does not have Xenons, leather, seat memory or the info screen. And it looks like if you want the sport suspension you must get the Premium trim package and then you cannot get the FE3 suspension with a MT. Very confusing. One thing you can say for BMW, no matter what engine and Line, you can get a MT.
 
#286 ·
True, however, in daily driving, it is hard to even push the E90 328i to its limit. Only after I took it to autox did I know why it was called 328i.:)

So yes the N/A I6 328i for me is perfect for daily driving when I can actually push it hard on a daily basis, therefore really have some fun, without running into a ditch.
 
#288 ·
#289 ·
It's lighter than the 3 series, that's probably their goal, to be able to use that marketing line.

I think the way it drives will be more important though, and hopefully the magnetic suspension and LSD with make it more of a purist car than the 3 series.

Interesting that those two options are only available on the turbo four, not the six, and not with AWD. Again that seems to indicate how important they think weight is.
 
#294 ·
The point is, if the base ATS turbo handles well needing the FE3 suspension won't matter and you won't have to pay a lot to get a sharp handling version. If its like a base CTS, which in attest drive I found to be way too soft vs the non sport 3 series then there is an issue. The other issue is the availability of a MT with the turbo engine and certain options packages.
 
#293 · (Edited)
You can get the LSD and MR shocks with the 2.0T RWD in manual only. You can get the LSD and MR with the 3.6L but they are auto only. I have no issue with this and I am sure more configurations will be added as time goes buy. My only interest is and I am assuming that's how most car enthusiasts and magazines will compare them is:

328i 6 speed M package vs ATS Turbo 6 speed LSD/MR package. Personally, I think the ATS looks phenomenal and with the F30 with going a bit soft it has a great shot of stealing some its sales.
 
#305 ·
I can't see myself in a CTS coupe, I think GM is right to tone the ATS down. If you want to compete in volume, must appeal to the mass, who do not want to look bad arse, just tastefully different.

The timing of the ATS bothers me. Supposedly the 2.5 will come out first, followed by the 3.6, then the 2.0T late in the year. So the first drives will compare the base 2.5 test with the benchmarks, recipe for humiliation.
 
#312 ·
It all depends on a comparison of similarly optioned cars. Right now the base ATS with the 200 hp 2.5l engine undercuts the 328 price but is down 40 hp. The 2.0 turbo ATS is slightly more expensive. We'll have to wait until we have all the info on what is std and what is an option. I expect the prices to be in the same ballpark.
 
#315 ·
Just the fact that we are having this heated debate over a Caddy is a testament to how far GM has come or how low BMW has fallen (or both) depending on your point of view.

While I understand BMW has to appeal to the mass (hence more emphasis on luxurification over driving dynamics), some of us feel ignored by a company we so faithfully supported over the years. At the end though, BMW still makes some of the best that blends luxury and performance, but the gap has narrowed to a razor thin margin.
 
#319 ·
Volt was clearly over-priced compared to more popular gas savers even after tax credit, until GM decided to offer an attractive lease.

If the same thing happens to ATS, it is not necessarily a bad thing from a consumer standpoint. One thing is almost certain, if GM wants to come even close to the sales volume of the 3, they will have to offer very attractive deals.
 
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