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328i feels like an undwhelming boat :(

67K views 955 replies 108 participants last post by  dtc100 
#1 ·
After 13 weeks of waiting for my 328i.
And after having driven it for a week.
It hurts me to say that the 328i feels like an undwhelming boat.
I'm not terribly disappointed because its a beautiful luxury car.
But I don't think it's the ultimate driving machine.
Maybe the 335i is, but I've not driven it so I can't say for sure.
Already planning to get a Z4 or the new Boxster for thrillfull driving.
Hate me for saying all this.
But I simply had to say it.
And I gave it a week.
Maybe I'll feel differently in a month.
But maybe that will be cuz I might have got used to this 328i by then.
:(
 
#501 ·
Some random thoughts on mine on the various topics here:

a) As a driving enthusiast, there are some options that are essentials and some that are a waste of money. While fulfilling the needs that only a sedan can, it's still absolutely mandatory that the car be fun to drive. So we ordered a 328i Sportline plus SAT and HIDs. Coral Red leather was our one concession to luxury. To get a G37 Sedan with the Sport Package requires getting the Premium and Navigation packages, neither which we would have wanted, putting it significantly more expensive than our 328i. (Which we took possession off two days ago and love it so far.)

b) "Wealthy" is relative. To the homeless person, the folks living in Section 8 are wealthy. To those people, people who live paycheck to paycheck but otherwise on their own is wealthy. To those people, people with enough income to contribute to savings, investments and luxuries are wealthy. To those people, people who can effect careers of large amounts of people, change entire large corporations, make national headlines, and influence entire nations, are wealthy.

c) Per 2011 US Census data, median household income was $50,054 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p60-243.pdf) and mean household income was $69,677 (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032012/hhinc/hinc06_000.xls) In other words (Read http://www.diffen.com/difference/Mean_vs_Median for mean vs. media) fully half of US households (a household is all people living at a single address, on average 2.59 people http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-14.pdf) make less than $50,054. That's income for all 2.59 people combined.

d) So where does that put somebody who just purchased a $40k or $50k BMW? I've read numerous discussions on car forums about how much car somebody "should" buy, and there's no consensus. Everybody's situation is different. But a general rule of thumb I've read is that a car payment should be 8% to 11% of our gross monthly income. So for our $50,054 household, they're looking at a payment of $333 to $458 per month. At 3.0% interest over 60 months and 6% sales tax, that's a total purchase price of $17,483 to $24,046. A new BMW, at any price, is simply unavailable for over half of the US regardless of how much they save. Conversely, anybody who purchases a new BMW has significantly more income than half of the nation. (Or are stretching themselves financially to a dangerous degree. There's a reason the terms "credit-card millionaire" and "$30,000 millionaire" exist.) This doesn't even touch upon the belief that some have that "if you can't pay cash for a car, you can't afford it." That would imply an even greater amount of income, to be able to save that much and mark it as disposable on a depreciating asset.

e) DFW is a very car-centric area. With the economic situation in many areas around here, I've called the 3-series "The Civic of Dallas" due to its commonality. (The same applies to Lexus - when I notice and count the number of black ISes I see in a single evening, the amount is staggering.) Similarly, I call the Bentley Continental "The Civic of Preston Hollow." For a $200k car, they're surprisingly common. (Note that this point in no way diminishes my point about the wealth required to purchase a new 3-series.)

f) I make no claim whatsoever to know what a typical BMW owner, or a typical non-BMW owner, feels about the economic situation of BMW owners.
 
#512 ·
Some random thoughts on mine on the various topics here:

c) Per 2011 US Census data, median household income was $50,054 and mean household income was $69,677 In other words fully half of US households make less than $50,054.

d) A new BMW, at any price, is simply unavailable for over half of the US regardless of how much they save. Conversely, anybody who purchases a new BMW has significantly more income than half of the nation. (Or are stretching themselves financially to a dangerous degree.
Very well stated. We are very fortunate here, apparently some of us don't realize it.

BJ
 
#502 · (Edited)
$458 is not too far off from BJ's $530, if one let's go a few useless options, an average person can afford it, just that people have priorities, some don't see the point of paying $500, others simply don't see the point of paying monthly for a car, period.

While there maybe those showing off their 328is as proof of their wealth, most people think us stupid sinking $500 into something that depreciates and costs a lot to repair.

As I said earlier, if you do choose your car to impress others, you are likely only trying to impress your own peers, which is the same as keeping up with the Joneses. BJ's scenario exists in a fantasy world, in the real world, he rarely has the courage to stray far from his own surroundings, and venture into places where he could really show it off and risk having some of his perceived wealth reduced by force.
 
#504 ·
$458 is not too far off from BJ's $530, if one let's go a few useless options, an average person can afford it, just that people have priorities, some don't see the point of paying $500, others simply don't see the point of paying monthly for a car, period.
Assuming purchase, 3% interest, 60 months and 6% sales tax:
$458/mo means a $24,046 vehicle.
$530/mo means a $27,826 vehicle.

Was BJ's $530 number for a lease? Doing a quick calc on cars.com shows a $673/mo lease for a $42,001 328i with a .0016 MF. I know very little about leases, though.

To purchase a slightly optioned 328i at $42,001 with the above terms, you're looking at an $800/mo payment.

Neither the $800/mo purchase nor $673/mo lease are wise for the $54,054 household. I dont think an average household can afford one, much less an average individual, unless they are willing to put themselves into serious debt, more than they might be able to get out of. Remember, by the rule of thumb they have only $458/mo to spend on a car if they want to keep a decent budget, and that's being generous. Instead, they can afford a new 2013 Honda Accord EX (but not the EX-L and certainly not the V6) or a Toyota Camry SE V6 (or if they want more features in return for less engine, the XLE 4-cylinder.) At the conservative 8% end, even those cars would be a stretch.

The average US household has much, much less money to spend on a car than you seem to think they do. This is not the average Highland Park, Chevy Chase or Somerset household - but the average of all the US.
 
#521 ·
This is turning into a drunken conversation. Most posts are saying something similar yet posters keep repeating them without despising the other guy already agreed. The there are some posts tron the angry crouch trying to insult once their arguments failed.
This thread has been fun but it is time to move on...

BJ I think you have made your point an then had to explain it from different angles. I guess some people will not get it.

The main IMO point is each one should by the car that meets their need. Whether the need is performance, gadgetry,overstated status, understated status, mid size luxury or peer pressure. Some will make a good financial decision, some won't. But most will be happy with their choice (either by sheer coincidence or because they they understood their needs and properly research their purchase) .

Then a few will be disapounted because they didn't think of their needed and wants and realized too late they picked up the wrong options or the wrong car.

And
 
#522 · (Edited)
...

BJ I think you have made your point an then had to explain it from different angles. I guess some people will not get it.

And
I don't think you get him either, even though you think you do:).

But that's ok, according to BJ, those were his last words on the subject, unfortunately also his worst attempt at it. Yeah I went to some extreme to get him to say it. It wasn't so difficult after all.
 
#525 ·
For making 700,000 a year I would have thought a 335 would have been the obvious choice. Just couriouse why you didn't buy top of the line? :dunno:
 
#557 ·
You hit the nail on the head. Really sad isn't it! :tsk:
 
#573 · (Edited)
I am glad you all agree with me now:)

But you all failed to understand what BJ was saying. He said people drive the 3 series mostly to show it off to those with less means, only that those past gen 3s were not perfect for such purpose, but now he found the perfect 3 for showing off. Remember his famous trips to the walmart parking lots trying to pick up single moms?

Remember he declared 98% of you do as he said you do?

Of course as I continue to strip away his theory, his theory continues to evolve. Now he seemed to say no he is not one of you 98% 3 drivers, he is much more wealthy than you. But still his theory applies to you, the 98% less wealthy.

Basically he is saying you have been fooled:)
 
#577 ·
BJ has a sharp eye and a firm grip on reality which unsurprisingly has made him wealthy and well positioned for the future. I guess that's intimidating to some, seeing how they respond by searching for ill intent and defending their own immaturity.
 
#622 ·
Take home points of this thread thus far:
1. wealth is relative
2. so is "performance"

With all this said about relative wealth and relative performance, my best suggestion 328i2013, would be to rent a Lincoln Town Car for a good week. After you come back to your "subpar" 328i, it will feel like a Ferrari. No, don't test drive an M3, as some have suggested, that will only make you feel worse. I'm serious. As with everything else in life, being happy is not dependent on fulfillilng your expectations, but rather, lowering them. Cheers!
 
#623 ·
The f30 is supposed to be SO big now.

I had a 535GT for the better part of last week. Getting back into the F30 made it feel like a toy in comparison lol.
 
#640 ·
lol so true. I once saw a guy drive head first into a tire wall at VIR in a Lamborghini Diablo SVT on his first track day. Why people start out with such ambitious cars with no experience is a wonder to me.
 
#656 ·
328xi is a great car if your looking for fuel economy and city drive, it still has lots of juice to get you fast after new turbo engine and great fuel economy but if your are looking for ultimate driving machine you need that extra 50 horses and you get that with 335, better handling than 328. There is no end to what you can get M3 obviously would be the best in the class but costs more, you can have that fun and driving pleasure with 335. I had 328xi(2011) and wanted to trade in for new one, drove both 328 and 335 back to back and decided right there and went with 335xi sport line, honestly those extra 50 horse with inline 6 cyl makes a huge difference.
 
#660 ·
exactly how does a 335i handle better than a 328i?

it weighs more. it has worse weight balance. there have been reviews of professional drivers saying it loses in the corners on tracks to the 328i.

don't just start making stuff up here. i mean the 328i if anything it has over a 335i is it weighs less and has less weight up front. physics doesnt lie.
 
#658 · (Edited)
650 Plus posts and nobody has come up with the most obvious suggestion to solve the OP's dilemma.
If he does not like underwhelming boats he should get rid of the F30 and purchase an overwhelming boat.

 
#669 ·
328i2013, sorry to hear that man. I feel your pain. I'm by far no expert, but when I test drove the 328i sedan, it was nice but felt like it was missing some hp. It was a short test drive so maybe not too fair of a judgment. I did test drive a 335i sedan yesterday and it just felt right. Smooth and enough hp for my satisfaction. My current car is a 2003 g35 coupe so I guess that's why I like the 335 better.
 
#679 ·
One thing I can say, when I drove the ATS 3.6, I did feel old, the car seemed more suited for younger generation than my age, chassis wise. Luckily the suspension does soak up road imperfection well in standard mode. I don't think the typical older Caddy drivers will like the ATS at all.

The F30 seems tailored for slightly more mature audience, in terms of driving dynamics. It will be interesting to see how the role reversal will pan out in a year or two.
 
#702 · (Edited)
My very subjective verdict after a 20 minute test drive (highway & back roads): Caddy has come out with a very nice car in the ATS, but it is no BMW. The only people I see buying this car are the ones who prefer its styling over the F30, or if they want to save a couple of bucks.

Window sticker of the 2.0 ATS I just test drove: http://i.imgur.com/sjxrR.jpg

========================

DETAILS:

- Drove the 2.0 L 272hp Turbo, which I believe is their mid model. Entry level is 200ish hp, so it wouldn't have been fair to drive that to compare with the 240 hp 328i.

- I couldn't drive the car very very hard cuz the sales guy came with me. But I did push it to an extent.

-It was an AT - cuz MT isn't available yet, or so I was told.

- Very Noticeable turbo lag, but when the turbo does kick in, car gets a jolt and feels VERY fast.

- Gear shifting in the AT is not as smart as the F30 AT in my opinion. In one instance, I stepped hard on the gas at a turn and it got confused I think, went into a higher gear, before switching to a lower gear. I suppose this wont be an issue in the MT.

- Car was smooth but that's to be expected these days. Handling was good too I suppose. I can't say yet if it felt huge like my F30 or not.

- Seats are a bit too stiff I think and I was just comparing with the regular seats in my F30. Leather is too smooth, and not in a nice way. Doesn't feel as nice as even the F30 leatherette.

- Interior feels WAY over designed. Too many little lights and buttons that light up. If I was upgrading from maybe a Chevy Malibu, I might have loved the interior. If you are used to cleaner European designs, ATS designing will feel a bit tacky IMO.

- I only got in the back seat of my F30 for a minute but the leg room was impressive from what I recall. Can't say the same about the ATS.

- Just doesn't feel as sophisticated as the F30, feels a bit cheap. No other way to explain I suppose.

All in all, ATS a neat car and very adequate. I think it might push BMW to improve the 3 series. But I don't think it's a serious competitor just yet.



 
#708 ·
- Very Noticeable turbo lag, but when the turbo does kick in, car gets a jolt and feels VERY fast.

- Gear shifting in the AT is not as smart as the F30 AT in my opinion. In one instance, I stepped hard on the gas at a turn and it got confused I think, went into a higher gear, before switching to a lower gear. I suppose this wont be an issue in the MT.
Did you use sport mode or standard mode? You are probably the first to report the 2.0T test drive experience, other than those car reviewers.

The ATS auto shift pattern is supposed to be one of its strong points, especially in sport mode. The 2.0T engine did not receive very good review, which is why I was only looking at the 3.6. The exhaust note on the 3.6 alone is worth the extra money.

Speaking of money, ATS is actually more expensive than a similarly equipped F30 now due to being new.
 
#712 ·
BJ,

I think you are being a bit nostaligc about your vintage Cadillac advertisement collection. Just look take a look at some of their more recent challenges - like with OnStar. ;)

http://youtu.be/8As1zshWxn0]

BTW, just in case anyone missed the nuance, the Cadillac accelerated so hard that it reported that it was in an accident. :rofl:
 
#722 ·
BJ,

I think you are being a bit nostaligc about your vintage Cadillac advertisement collection. Just look take a look at some of their more recent challenges - like with OnStar.

BTW, just in case anyone missed the nuance, the Cadillac accelerated so hard that it reported that it was in an accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbHsfdCoJLY&sns=em

LOL. Too funny, a sport sedan designed to do no more than 80mph before phoning home.

This Cadillac design video for the Cimmaron is right out of the ATS playbook. Lots of BMW and Audi comparisons.

BJ
 
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