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January 2013 segment sales numbers

25K views 426 replies 38 participants last post by  beden1 
#1 · (Edited)
MB C Class: 7,214
BMW 3 Series: 4,831
Audi A4/5: 3,955
Infiniti G: 2,815
Cadillac ATS: 2,781
Acura TSX: 1,806
Lexus IS: 1,386
 
#3 ·
Yeah, as soon as BJ opened his mouth in some publication. Just wait till he sees the new CLAs during Super Bowl have at it with Kate:)

BMW needs to bring us the new 2 series sedan ASAP, and get Kate to come over.

Sourced from all manufactures' reports.
 
#9 ·
Not surprised. Every other car I see on the road is a C300.
 
#12 ·
Here is how 90% of buyers of these cars answer when asked about what makes their cars great.

- "It's a BMW!"
- "Meaning?"
- "It drives like a BMW"
- "Meaning?"
:dunno:

- "It's a Benz"
- ....


Those are the most common and best explanations you will hear about what makes these cars great.
 
#14 ·
Here is how 90% of buyers of these cars answer when asked about what makes their cars great.

- "It's a BMW!"
- "Meaning?"
- "It drives like a BMW"
- "Meaning?"
:dunno:

- "It's a Benz"
- ....

Those are the most common and best explanations you will hear about what makes these cars great.
It drives like BMWs used to! :)
 
#21 ·
For quite some time the 3 Series had its segment essentially to itself. There are now a number of direct competitors and BMW has a smaller share of a much larger market. I think the 3 will continue to sell well but the competition, particularly Audi and Mercedes, is coming on strong. I think the ATS has made a remarkable showing both in the reviews that have been published and in sales. It took BMW 30 years to get to its position and Cadillac has been at it for about 6 months.

CA
 
#25 · (Edited)
I think MB did a good job at styling lately, just read the comments on the CLA. Personally, since the brands in this segment are so close than ever before, the exterior design will have a greater impact on sales. The fact the C class has kept the sales strong shows how important to keep a model fresh looking throughout the model years.

Sooner or later this segment will resemble the mainstream family car segment, in which cars like Honda Accord facelift itself every year:)

The pressure of downward movement is huge, with the 320i beating the ATS base by $500, and CLA starts at below $30k. The line between the entry level luxury and mainstream is blurry.
 
#24 · (Edited)
#29 ·
Here is the link to the MT article, BJ should be happy to know the reason for the slowdown for the 3 series is because they were trying to get rid of all the E90s and make room for the new F30s
The article is making the wrong assumption.

There are three things going on:

1. The comparable Coupe transition period of 2007 saw sales nosedive (-35.4%).

2. The comparable Convertible transition period of 2007 saw sales nosedive (-22.7%).

3. Unlike 2007, Mercedes woke up and took the C segment seriously, made a fine looking car.

The F3X has a 7 year lifespan but a messy 2 year transition. What we're seeing here is historically representative on the BMW side. Mercedes woke up from the coma they had with the prior C models, decided to take things seriously. Nothing BMW can do about that during a transition. Talk to me in 2 years when the C is long-in-the-tooth and all versions of the 3 and 2 are available and then we can see where we stand.

BJ
 
#30 ·
I never understood why BMW takes 2 years to introduce all of the body styles of the new model. :dunno:

CA
 
#34 ·
BMW and Mercedes built their model lineups from different directions. At one point BMW did not have any offerings at the top of the line and Mercedes didn't have anything at the bottom.

The modern BMW brand was built on the 1600/2002 and the 3 Series. There were higher end models like the 2800/3.0 CS and the Bavaria but they were never big sellers.

Mercedes built high end luxury cars and did not directly compete with BMW. Eventually BMW moved upscale with the 5 and the 7 and Mercedes moved downscale with the C Class.

For a number of years now BMW and Mercedes have gone head to head in the entry, mid and high end luxury markets but the C Class never had the performance image that the 3 Series did.

CA
 
#36 · (Edited)
For a number of years now BMW and Mercedes have gone head to head in the entry, mid and high end luxury markets but the C Class never had the performance image that the 3 Series did.

CA
Precisely.

And now with Mercedes CLA going downmarket against the 320i and with BMW going upmarket with the 4 Series we're going to have an all-out war in this segment, a German performance car for everyone at every age and every price level, no need at all to dabble with Lexus, Audi, Acura, or Cadillac.

For years, Honda, Toyota, GM, and Volkswagen have had their cake and eaten it too, had their low-end brands and their luxury brands. Mercedes and BMW have decided to put an end to that dubious practice, going to feast on those Accord, Camry, LaCrosse, and Passat owners. "Spend the same money, get a Mercedes or a BMW, step right up..." All the while, pummeling the A4, IS, G, and ATS at the same time. Matching price on the lesser brands, undercutting the luxury brands. Going to be a bloodbath.

BJ
 
#64 ·
The most remarkable detail of this C-Class sales beat up against the 3-Series is that fundamentally this C-Class is the same as the 2007 C-Class. In other words, the facelifted C-Class sells more than the new 3-Series. By a quite lot.

To me, the only explanation is pricing. And like I said before, this 3-Series was priced out of the segment too soon, too quick and without real substance to this price increase.

Welcome 320i.
 
#65 ·
Here in the Chicago Metro area the sales numbers comes as no surprise. You'd be hard press to see one F30 for every twenty C Class. From my perspective, first time buyers looking to get into an imported entry level luxury model will find the 3ER Base model bland and over valued and the Lines, too expensive. Regarding the CLA, starting out at 29K, that's going to be a major problem for BMW.
 
#70 ·
First BJ claimed the ATS was an utter failure, after seeing it selling more than the A4, and likely more than the G37 if only sedans are counted. So basically as far as sedans, the ATS was the third, behind the C and F30 last month.

Then BJ insists only 70 year olds drive ATS, when over at the Caddy sites it is all 20 to 40 year olds reporting their first Caddy experiences with the new ATS.

I was then reminded that BJ was very happy BMW will release the 320i, because according to him it will be a perfect car for his 70 year old mother.

Now I am no therapist, but I have a feeling someone in that profession will have a good theory about what BJ is going through:). It can be summed up with one word, or two.
 
#78 ·
dtc100 First BJ claimed the ATS was an utter failure, after seeing it selling more than the A4, and likely more than the G37 if only sedans are counted. So basically as far as sedans, the ATS was the third, behind the C and F30 last month.

I don't view the A4 and G37 as successes, therefore seeing the ATS put up numbers at their level is nothing to write home about. Especially when you consider how much GM spent on over-advertising the ATS and all those magazine write-ups and all those comparos. Sales occur when deliveries are made. I'll bet you anything that the January number you're touting has many November and December orders arriving late, puffing it up. Next month will be interesting. Either way, with that kind of massive ad blitz, making a tiny dent in the category is not a success.

Then BJ insists only 70 year olds drive ATS, when over at the Caddy sites it is all 20 to 40 year olds reporting their first Caddy experiences with the new ATS.

They sell so few it's possible that some youngsters chose an ATS over a Malibu. After all, they cost almost the same thing.

I was then reminded that BJ was very happy BMW will release the 320i, because according to him it will be a perfect car for his 70 year old mother.

That's correct. The lower price would have put her in an F30 instead of a TL two years ago when her lease was up.

Now I am no therapist, but I have a feeling someone in that profession will have a good theory about what BJ is going through. It can be summed up with one word, or two.

BJ is not going through anything. BMW could never sell another F30 for all I care. I have mine, that's all that matters.

BJ
 
#83 · (Edited)
BJ is not going through anything. BMW could never sell another F30 for all I care. I have mine, that's all that matters.

BJ
Well that attitude by itself is going through something. Basically you have no interest in anything that is not yours, even those who made yours happen. So I am baffled why you are so interested in the threads which the purpose is to compare with the others.

Do you care or do you not care? Do you even know the answer?
 
#86 ·
According to motortrend BMW cleared out e90 inventory with incentives in December. In my opinion sales will rebound just fine in the next 2 months. I also read a blog that GM has built up 20,000 ATS models in inventory so I bet we see incentives very soon! Looks like the ATS may have plateaued at 2700 vehicles per month. If the inventory levels are true than GM had high expectations that are not being met.
 
#100 · (Edited)
Anyone have any figures on what percentage of 3 Series sales the coupe and convertible account for in a year when they are all the current body style.

Also Audi and BMW would not be fielding race teams if doing so did not spur sales of their cars. Fielding teams at LeMans and in other major race series is wildly expensive and they are not going to do it if they do not see a return on investment.

At one point Formula one teams were spending close to One Billion dollars per year. No company, whether it's BMW, Honda, Audi or Red Bull is going to spend that kind of money if they are not seeing a return on the investment.



CA
 
#103 ·
Anyone have any figures on what percentage of 3 Series sales the coupe and convertible account for in a year when they are all the current body style.
30% of 3 Series sales come from the Coupe and Convertible:

The 3-Series line - sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon - is a cornerstone of BMW's global product portfolio and profits.

It is the top-selling luxury nameplate worldwide with 2011 sales of 382,218 - or 28 percent of the BMW brand's sales of 1.38 million, according to IHS Automotive and the company.

The coupe and convertible each accounted for 15 percent - or about 14,000 units apiece - of the 3 series' U.S. sales of 94,371 last year, BMW said.


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012...oupe-convertible-4-series-mod/?print&page=all

Also Audi and BMW would not be fielding race teams if doing so did not spur sales of their cars. Fielding teams at LeMans and in other major race series is wildly expensive and they are not going to do it if they do not see a return on investment.
At one point Formula one teams were spending close to One Billion dollars per year.

CA
Formula 1 racing in Europe is huge, the NASCAR over there. So asking why BMW fields a Formula 1 team in Europe is like asking why Chevy fields a NASCAR team in Kentucky.

The biggest differentiation between BMW and its competitors is the perception of "sporty tendencies", so in the US having posters of BMW race cars in the showrooms helps keep that perception alive even though the cars themselves say otherwise.

BJ
 
#116 ·
  1. BMW is NOT moving away from the sport sedan market. Period.
  2. The competition is getting better, no doubt. This is a good thing.
  3. BMW is simultaneously moving the 3 series both up and down market. Some of the 335s out there are the most expensive 3's ever (not counting Ms). Plus, the 320 is coming out, and that's going to be a huge seller and broaden the market base.
  4. The 3 is getting more luxurious, comes with more bells and whistles than ever before, and this trend will continue.
  5. The 3 series is still sticking to it's sport sedan roots. e.g., Sport Line, M Sport, Dynamic Handling, Adaptive Suspension, Paddle shifters, etc.
 
#121 ·
As opposed to some here who speculate and throw out fabricated statistics I have actually spoken to BMW marketing people. They obviously are interested in selling as many cars as possible but they have no intention of abandoning their image as a performance oriented enthusiasts car. That is what built the brand and they are very aware of that fact.

No company is going to spend the money that BMW does to promote motorsports if they feel that they are catering to 2% of their client base.

CA
 
#119 ·
Kindly, someone (BJ), explain the following, if E46 and E90 were such horrible cars, non luxurious, harsh suspension, performance oriented, whereas majority of buyers want comfort and luxury, how is it that they were able to sell millions of them, and create an image which is largly responsible for F30 sales today? According to your theory BMW should have gone out of business about 10 to 12 years ago, long before they realized that "we really want luxury and comfort and dont care about performance".
 
#122 · (Edited)
Exactly. The only one who believes what he says is he himself. IMO, spouting his brand on nonsense will turn off potential BMW buyers.
 
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#133 ·
My 2011 does not have any squeaks or rattles. I'm actually amazed since it's a convertible.
 
#142 ·
+1 38000 miles on my sedan and it has no rattles or squeaks. I have to say I have owed many Japanese cars that were never this tight after almost 2 years. I get that this car cost a lot more and it may not be a speed demon, but its the best car I have ever owned. I actually want to get an f30 for my wife, but she feel in love with the x1. Hmm maybe I will give her mine. :D
 
#136 ·
#137 ·
Ah, my femme fatale ... the E21 323i ! That's where it all started for me. Nice memories.
 
#158 · (Edited)
Personally in the UK merc sales are for "Old Men" and thats how they drive.
I have tested most of them and they do not stack up.
Interiors look cheap and annual servicing costs very high, and even if the car has only covered very low mileage they still insist on full servicing here:(.
Not for me thanks.
PS) gearboxes are crap.
 
#162 · (Edited)
A few things:

1. BJ there is no $29,900 3-series. A stripper 320i will msrp at 33,445
2. The ATS is a huge success by any measure. I expect its market share to increase. That may or may not be at BMW's expense
3. The Average age of a BMW owner is 50. MB 50. Lexus 50. Audi 49. all are rising in recent years. Caddy 57 (but dropping even before the ATS).
4. Audi has much more brand styling penache among the youth both in Europe and the US. Rich kids on college campuses all drive S5's not 3ers. Audi is becoming what BMW was in the 80s. The aspirational brand of choice.
5. The competition in this segment continues to get insane. MB is beginning to drink BMW's milkshake.
6. My next car may or may not be a BMW. If it is it will not be because it's a BMW. That seems to be the difference between BJ and most everyone else here.
7. For f**ks sake can we all please stop calling 4-door cars coupes?
 
#164 ·
4. Audi has much more brand styling penache among the youth both in Europe and the US. Rich kids on college campuses all drive S5's not 3ers. Audi is becoming what BMW was in the 80s. The aspirational brand of choice.
Excellent point.

In my area, private school high school kids, both male and female, want and receive Audis for their 16th birthday. It is definitely the aspirational, desired young people's car.
 
#167 ·
audis popularity is more a result of their full on assault of mainstream media, paying all the cool celebrities to drive audis, and lack of taste in the younger generation.
Thats what the older generation said about the boomers when they started buying BMWs.

CA
 
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