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I hope it's just me but... F30s just not the same?

33K views 624 replies 78 participants last post by  Michael Schott 
#1 ·
I recently drove a F32 loaner for 2 days, is it just me to think 8 gears and 4 cylinder just takes some of that ooomph out of the BMWness?

For me, if you put the car in comfort it become a lexus... way too smooth... probably a good thing for a lot of people but if I want that, why I bother with a bimmer?

If you want to manual shift the auto tran... 8 gears are just way too much in city traffic... put it in sport you loose their advertised fuel economy.... SO what's the point of getting a new bimmer these day???

335 is the only way to go i guess?
 
#142 ·
I have owned most iterations of the 3 series and a 2002 before that.

Each one in succession has been a little bigger, a little heavier, a little more comfort oriented and a little more detached.

They have also become faster, more fuel efficient, packed with more tech features, and more capable.

This is not new with the change from E90 to F30, nor is the bitching and hand wringing about how BMW has lost it's way.

It happens with each new generation. In 6 or so years when the next platform is introduced, we'll do this all over again.

Personally, I like my F32 435xi quite a bit. I miss the steering feel of the E90 335xi (which was not as good as in the E46), but with addition of DHP, the car corners much flatter and rides better overall.

It's called progress, even if it's not always in the direction you want.

jummo
 
#184 ·
#148 · (Edited)
I like the n20. I like engines you can make faster and the N52 was limited as far as power modifications. The ceiling was low. The n20 however has a much higher ceiling. I love that it cost me $380 to get 30 or so more HP and TQ at the wheels; a substantial power gain. For another $150 I can go stage 2 quickly, easily and reliably and be a hair faster than a current 328 with a negligible impact on fuel economy. Guys with the 328 can easily match 335 numbers and so on. The n20 is generally pretty smooth but at WOT it is course and unrefined compared the N52 IMO. Unfortunately, the sound of the engine is the trade off for such efficiency and potential. Also the difference in every day feel of max torque just above idle vs max torque at 2500 rpms is substantial. The turbo four will always feels punchier and more responsive.
 
#149 ·
Yeap. I have spent a lot more than I should have on my mods. Between the BMW Performance exhaust, Eurobox, and AA Stg 2 tune you looking at a good amount for cash for maybe a 20-25 hp gain on a good day. Only other things are the 3 stage intake manifold and headers but they are expensive. There is a supercharger coming out soon but that is over 5K. On the other hand I do have a soft spot for these engines. I really missed my VR6 when I got the 2.0 TSI so I replaced it with the N52. I also prefer the "chubaka" R32 over the Golf R, even knowing that the R is much quicker.
 
#151 ·
^^ correct, which is why id never drive a current gen BMW wihout sport suspension. Not to mention the sport seats and m sport steering wheel are far superior to the base set up. The standard seats have poor lateral support and I noticed the sides of my mid back already starting to ache during the test drive. Non sport just Doesn't feel right to me. If I wanted body roll and a feeling of floating I would have gotten a Buick. It needs to feel planted at all times.
 
#188 ·
FYI, the updated online configurator does not mention a lower suspension (or any suspension change) for M-sport and sport line.

I hope that means everything non-DHP, non-Xdrive is low now. An error in the configurator is more likely but I didn't see a dealer order guide yet.
 
#171 · (Edited)
One perspective not yet represented in this thread is that of someone coming to BMW for the first time with the F3x. That would be people like me. From my point of view, the 435 I now drive is by a massive margin the best car I have ever owned. Prior to this, I have owned everything from cheap large sedans, hot hatches of various generations, to top-of-the-range GM product and even a C class coupe. In terms of how the car feels to drive (handling, steering, engine sound, smoothness of controls, etc), the BMW is massively superior to all of these in every way. It does everything I want exactly how I want. BMW has nailed the feel of this car, and the sales figures say I'm not alone in thinking this. It's an absolute winner but you'll never get a consensus on that on an internet car forum ;)
 
#219 ·
I drove an SI for about an hour before going with the GTI. Besides the the craptastic interior and obnoxious Japanese styling, the torque sealed the deal for me with the GTI. When my GTI was stage 1 I was at around 280lb ft of tq at the crank and having that much torque meant I rarely had to downshift for the power. Night and day difference. My friend got a '13 BRZ recently and I drove that too. Same vibe. Felt gutless around town and fun once I was able to wring it out on the highway. No thanks.
 
#222 · (Edited)
^^ I happily unloaded the GTI after 3 eventful and quirky years so you won't hear me singing too many praises. Definitely falls flat up high. That improved a little with different intakes I experimented with but the true restriction is with downpipe, exhaust, etc. on those cars. The convoluted intake on the old TSI doesn't help either. Honda no doubt makes a superior and more reliable engine than really any VW product. My parents' 86 Accord went 200k miles and they still sold it for 1500 bucks after 15 years or so of virtually problem free ownership. I loved that car. 5 speed, lightweight, great handling and fuel econ.. Flip up headlights, haha.

I love that Accord has finally gotten back to something good with the current gen Sport model. They really lost their way for a while.
 
#223 ·
^^ I happily unloaded the GTI after 3 eventful and quirky years so you won't hear me singing too many praises. Definitely falls flat up high. That improved a little with different intakes I experimented with but the true restriction is with downpipe, exhaust, etc. on those cars. The convoluted intake on the old TSI doesn't help either. Honda no doubt makes a superior and more reliable engine than really any VW product. My parents' 86 Accord went 200k miles and they still sold it for 1500 bucks after 15 years or so of virtually problem free ownership. I loved that car. 5 speed, lightweight, great handling and fuel econ.. Flip up headlights, haha.

I love that Accord has finally gotten back to something good with the current gen Sport model. They really lost their way for a while.
The new GTI is supposed to be an improvement but for few grand more I would just get the 320i. I am curious how TLX will turn out. The new Accord is great for what it is.
 
#226 ·
Well put. I got a lot of flack for the 320 on the GTI boards because those guys just think that car is the best thing in the world. While I had the GTI, every time I drove a BMW I would talk about how it just had something the GTI did not. Now that I live with a BMW each day, it's just overall a nicer experience. The GTI is a great car - I loved the seats and the steering wheel and Stage 1 on that little thing was a lot of fun but it just lacked the balance, poise and refinement of my car. Like everything, you get what you pay for.
 
#230 ·
Reason for buying a BMW

My wife and I were looking for a new car and test drove many new vehicles (not BMW.) None of the cars "did it" for us.

Then in early 2013, we rented a car on Ellis Street in SF a couple of blocks south of Union Square to take a trip to Napa -- it was an F30. Wow, what a great car. Within about a month and change, we bought a CPO E90. Nice car too.

The cars are certainly different, but both are really nice.

So, as applicable, stop mourning the death of the E90, et. al. If "E" is past, and "F" is present, perhaps the "G37" will be the successor to the "F" series ...

For us. Depending.

Don
 
#233 ·
Q50

wait till you test drive the q50
No thanks. The salesman at Berman's on La Salle had no idea how to figure out the "shoot to the moon / mars" distractions all over the dashboard.

And I don't want it, either. Pass.

The Q50 may have more gadget processing power per second then the enter first moon shot. Not for me while trying to drive a car.

Don
 
#236 ·
No thanks. The salesman at Berman's on La Salle had no idea how to figure out the "shoot to the moon / mars" distractions all over the dashboard.

And I don't want it, either. Pass.

The Q50 may have more gadget processing power per second then the enter first moon shot. Not for me while trying to drive a car.

Don
they didn't stop at destroying the handling of the car in the q50, they went the extra mile and created that button-less interface to do everything. hopefully bmw doesn't hop on the touch screen for everything bandwagon.
 
#245 ·
We probably need a completely different forum for those of us who find AT extremely boring--and who still always double-clutch when downshifting, use our heel-and-toe technique when downshifting at speed for sharp turns that require simultaneous braking and downshifting, and who love 6-4, 5-3, 2-1 and other downshifts--and do them often and extremely smoothly--and who love to pick our own upshift points! For us, launch control is not a feature, it's a practice we employ--often--every time we drive. It's for the same reason that we hike to summits you can drive to, or climb cliffs you can reach the top of by helicopter. In the end, it's all about maximum fun.
 
#249 ·
We probably need a completely different forum for those of us who find AT extremely boring--and who still always double-clutch when downshifting, use our heel-and-toe technique when downshifting at speed for sharp turns that require simultaneous braking and downshifting, and who love 6-4, 5-3, 2-1 and other downshifts--and do them often and extremely smoothly--and who love to pick our own upshift points! For us, launch control is not a feature, it's a practice we employ--often--every time we drive. It's for the same reason that we hike to summits you can drive to, or climb cliffs you can reach the top of by helicopter. In the end, it's all about maximum fun.
There is such a forum.

www.aarp.com
 
#250 · (Edited)
^^ oh man, that one got me

Nordique, gotta hand it to him. I was that guy for a while, or at least tried to convince myself that even taking 45 min to inch 2 miles up Rosemead blvd. at 630pm was more 'engaging' and 'fun' with the FDR era transmission, but it wasn't. It was tedium. I don't understand how people can't have fun driving without constantly working a clutch but whatever, each to their own.

For the pure enthusiast, the 3 is certainly not the choice anymore, but I love it as a daily. Just the right mix of refinement and performance. If I just wanted to have fun, my 2 door six speed stage 1 GTI fit the bill but I'm an old man at 37 now and sometimes I just want to relax and let the car do the work.
 
#253 ·
While I did not get a new shirt, I did take the 435xi M-Sport out for it's first spirited romp today.

Having completed 1200 miles of break in, I drove a favorite and familiar loop. Roughly 200 miles on the western slope here in CO. Mostly twisty, scenic state highways with a short bit of I-70.

Having driven the same circuit in previous E90 335's, here's my analysis:

Motor/Acceleration

The N55 is more refined than the N54 which was more visceral. And quite a bit louder, which I missed The n55 makes nice enough sounds, there are just muted. The same motor in our X1 35i is quite a bit louder. Even though the numbers say otherwise, the 435 doesn't seem as fast as the E90. Perhaps this is because it is new or because it is so serene inside.

Handling/Steering

With the DHP set to Sport (as is always is) the F32 corners much flatter and overall rides better than the E90 did. I always felt the 335xi was under suspended for it's motor, not so with the 435xi. In constant radius corners once the car has taken a set, there seems to be more grip and a higher limit. Bumps and undulations are better damped in the new car, but only in Sport mode.

Comfort mode makes the car pitch and roll and bounce far worse than in the E90. Haven't tried ECO Pro yet, may not.

The variable ratio steering is great in rapid succession corners. The increase in turning is very natural and predictably progressive, The steering is more precise and surgical than in my previous cars. Very quick corner to corner.

It is also devoid of tactile sensation. The car goes where you aimed it, you just don't feel anything. One of the things that struck me most the first time I drove a BMW was that sensation of your hands being attached to the front wheels. In the F32, not so much.

There is no sensation of road surface or adhesion limits, just point and shoot. A little disconcerting in the rain.


Brakes

This was a strength of the E90, a very firm pedal up top and progressive increase in power as you increased pedal travel. The F32 pedal feels a bit softer off the top and then pressure builds up very well though not as rapidly as previously.

In the E90, when I was braking hard, it always felt like there was a lot more available. The F32 doesn't provide that same level of effortless deceleration. It scrubbed speed quite effectively, but I had to get further into the pedal travel to do so.

While I did not get the m-Sport brakes, they do make the wheels dirty at a faster pace than the old car(s).


Overall

Clearly, the new car is "nicer" than the old one. While the seats seem identical, everything is more comfortable. This has been true of each succession of the 3er that I have owned. Even the HK stereo sounds much better than it did in the e90's.

Certainly more poised. Probably more capable. And quite a bit more aloof.

Two out of three ain't bad.

Also instead of Coral Red, I now refer to my interior as Salmon.


jummo
 
#258 · (Edited)
While I did not get a new shirt, I did take the 435xi M-Sport out for it's first spirited romp today.

Having completed 1200 miles of break in, I drove a favorite and familiar loop. Roughly 200 miles on the western slope here in CO. Mostly twisty, scenic state highways with a short bit of I-70.

Having driven the same circuit in previous E90 335's, here's my analysis:

Motor/Acceleration

The N55 is more refined than the N54 which was more visceral. And quite a bit louder, which I missed The n55 makes nice enough sounds, there are just muted. The same motor in our X1 35i is quite a bit louder. Even though the numbers say otherwise, the 435 doesn't seem as fast as the E90. Perhaps this is because it is new or because it is so serene inside.
I had the same experience coming from a V8 E60 to my current F10 535. I also drove a 550 and an X6 5.0 back to back recently and, given that they have the same engine, I was surprised at how much more visceral the X6 was.

So BMW Appears to be deliberately toning down the sound experience in some of these cars. I wonder if the M Performance exhaust would be a good choice to liven up the 435 a little.

Coral - I'm torn. Say more about yours. I'd like to try something other than black or beige, but some of the pictures I see of the Coral look pretty loud to me. Seems like it has more of an earthy tint in person than in pictures, but I still don't think I could get used to it on the lower dash. That's a problem easily solved by the leather dash option, but that's a grand I'd rather spend elsewhere.

I agree with you on the DHP and sport mode. I never take my 535 out of it, ever. Comfort mode feels like a car I would not have been interested in buying, and Eco-pro is just useless. I almost want to go back to RWD for my next car, get the 704, and forget the DHP entirely. But I live in a pretty hilly part of Denver, and even though I had an acceptable experience on a RWD E60 with snow tires, the hills I drive on make a good argument for AWD. First world problems.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#261 ·
Jummo, very nice review. I felt very much the same about the F33 428i M-Sport cabrio I had a week of seat time in recently, right down to the feel of the brakes.
 
#265 · (Edited)
I recently drove a F32 loaner for 2 days, is it just me to think 8 gears and 4 cylinder just takes some of that ooomph out of the BMWness?

For me, if you put the car in comfort it become a lexus... way too smooth... probably a good thing for a lot of people but if I want that, why I bother with a bimmer?

If you want to manual shift the auto tran... 8 gears are just way too much in city traffic... put it in sport you loose their advertised fuel economy.... SO what's the point of getting a new bimmer these day???

335 is the only way to go i guess?
Not the first time I've driven the F3x 3er in any way, but just spent time over two days driving the 328d as well as an enormous host of Bimmers at the UDE and I can say unequivocally it is just you. The reports of BMW's demise are greatly exaggerated.

btw - only drove in Sport mode, 'cause that is the BMW mode. Comfort mode is the new thing. Not Sport mode. If you (anyone, not referring to the OP) wanna drive in Comfort don't come here complaining that your Bimmer doesn't feel like a Bimmer anymore. Driving in Comfort mode isn't some requirement. It is a choice the driver makes.
 
#266 ·
Ive got not beef with comfort mode. It's fine for normal driving around town. Just takes more aggressive throttle modulation at times but I think it's the smoothest overall mode of operation. I am going to get the sport AT coding done next week though and I hear that improves all the mode overall, not just sport/Sport+ so I'm excited to see how that goes.
 
#271 ·
I recently drove a F32 loaner for 2 days, is it just me to think 8 gears and 4 cylinder just takes some of that ooomph out of the BMWness?

For me, if you put the car in comfort it become a lexus... way too smooth... probably a good thing for a lot of people but if I want that, why I bother with a bimmer?

If you want to manual shift the auto tran... 8 gears are just way too much in city traffic... put it in sport you loose their advertised fuel economy.... SO what's the point of getting a new bimmer these day???

335 is the only way to go i guess?
Said it from the moment I drove the F30 with an automatic, that 8 speed is constantly hunting and pecking for a gear. I've driven four or five of them and the automatic always feels lost. The manual is better (what I have now) but in typical BMW fashion (i've had 4 with manuals) it's a really sloppy stick with long throws and a vagueness that reminds me of a VW or a Ford.
 
#277 ·
We track our 435xi Msport and have no complaints. Of course if we opted for an entry level model I guess we could expect less from the car that's priced on par with a Honda Accord.

Even still how would that entry level BMW compare to said Honda? Particularly on a road course?

Yes, the news is out. You still have to pay to play.
With as many models/trims as BMW is making available I would gamble that there is still something for everyone in the lineup.

I am surprised people here are judging the entire brand on its most entry level model and declaring the decline of the company as a whole.

Some would say its the attitude these days of wanting something for nothing. Feeling entitled that a $35k car perform to their Super car expectations.

My opinion is the car does everything well.
It is comfortable daily and is very competitive at the race track. I have seen comments from those here who actually track their cars and they have no complaints compared to those who don't about the cars/brands continued track prowess.

My suggestion is to do some HPDE's and see for yourself instead of letting a magazine determine your opinion for you.
 
#282 ·
We track our 435xi Msport and have no complaints. Of course if we opted for an entry level model I guess we could expect less from the car that's priced on par with a Honda Accord.

Even still how would that entry level BMW compare to said Honda? Particularly on a road course?

Yes, the news is out. You still have to pay to play.
With as many models/trims as BMW is making available I would gamble that there is still something for everyone in the lineup.

I am surprised people here are judging the entire brand on its most entry level model and declaring the decline of the company as a whole.

Some would say its the attitude these days of wanting something for nothing. Feeling entitled that a $35k car perform to their Super car expectations.

My opinion is the car does everything well.
It is comfortable daily and is very competitive at the race track. I have seen comments from those here who actually track their cars and they have no complaints compared to those who don't about the cars/brands continued track prowess.

My suggestion is to do some HPDE's and see for yourself instead of letting a magazine determine your opinion for you.
I'm not sure a 435xi would be on my list of cars to take on the track and I don't think BMW intended them to be tracked either. But, most people buy these cars to drive and enjoy on public roads. It's these experiences and opinions that should probably carry the most weight.
 
#284 ·
Remember when BMW sold horses and not this new stuff that had horse power? How fake is that? Just give me a stripped down horse. Why did they have to ruin it with all this metal and plastic and pretend it was a horse?
 
#293 · (Edited)
Interesting thing about steering feel: I just had an Audi A4 loaner for a day while my car was in for service. A nice car, no doubt. But as I drove it around, I realized that the steering was so light that it was unpleasant to drive down the road at 40mph. A little move of the hands with no effort would translate into more movement on the road than I wanted. Getting back into my Passat felt like it didn't even have power steering in comparison!

But that's the way people want their cars. Especially their premium cars. A few years back, my realtor wanted to replace her Lexus luxo-barge. At the time I had my E46 and couldn't speak enough good things about it. She went to the dealership for a test drive and hated it. She said that if she couldn't drive down the road and steer with one finger, then she didn't think the car was a luxury car.

For every 1 enthusiast like us on these forums, there's got to be 100 one-finger-driving realtors! And that's why BMW builds and sells "softer" cars nowadays.

I've realized that my next car won't be another E46. So I will find something (leaning towards the 428i GC) that is still relatively fun to drive and looks great. It's a daily driver, so it will be driven on busy, crappy, pothole laden roads, not on a racetrack. So I'll survive. And when I want something more like BMW's old days, I'll pull the E46 M3 out of the garage, put the top down, and go find some back roads.
 
#294 ·
The A4/A5 has more problem than light steer. They are adaptive, but their adaptive support is not degrees of wheel turn / degrees of steering wheel turn. They make it lighter at lower speeds, at what I think is the same ratio. That makes low-mid speed maneuvering in the Audi feel like a 1990 Honda prelude. I really didn't like it.

I mean I thought it is even worse than F30s and I found those shocking. The Audi had more problems in the fun driving department. Good functionality, though.
 
#298 ·
The car being unreliable is at the root of it for you. If it it's giving you problems it's easy to find all the little things about it that bother you. Problems with a new car are terrible. A 2014 car, any make or model should be problem free for years to come. So, sorry to hear about that.
 
#303 ·
The 8 speed I find to be enjoyable regardless of traffic. Enjoyable 100% of the time vs 50%. Getting the sport AT coding done next week and that should make it even better!
 
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