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The ultimate check your BMW 3 Series F30 deal thread

470K views 1K replies 287 participants last post by  335fresh 
#1 · (Edited)
In an attempt to reduce the number of threads created by number hungry potential leasees/purchasees, I've put together a spreadsheet that is far more comprehensive than any auto finance or lease calculator you'll find online.

In addition to merely presenting you with cash flows and monthly payment figures, this spreadsheet will also calculate roughly how good of a deal you are getting via a field called negotiating margin. Aside of just the sales price alone, the negotiating margin will increase if you are paying an excessively high money factor or doc fees which may be an indication you are leaving money on the dealer's side of the table.

The spreadsheet also allows you to explicitly set how fees and taxes are handled for leases. For example, you can configure the deal such that taxes are paid on the entire value of the car rather than just the depreciation. Additionally, you can also configure how taxes are paid whether it is cash due at signing, a cap cost adjustment, or simply a monthly component of your lease payment.

I've copied and pasted the help information below so you can get an idea of how flexible this spreadsheet is. Also, because BF does not allow .xlsx attachment, you'll have to click the link below to view the spreadsheet from my google drive. In order to edit the quantities, simply download the spreadsheet by clicking the downward pointing arrow towards the top-center of the viewer. All calculations are done using formulas, thus there are no macros embedded in the workbook.

Click here to open up the spreadsheet


Instructions

Read the instructions, this will assist you in filling out the information on the "Main" and "Data" sheets

Generally, you will spend the majority if your time on the "Main" sheet. However, occasionally you may need to change some numbers which are generally more universal.
These are found on the "Data" sheet. See section 7 for details on how to change values on the "Data" sheet.

The only values you need to fill in / choose are those in cells with a blue background

Section 1 needs to be filled in correctly to provide an accurate estimate of your negotiating power which is presented in Section 2. For purchase/lease comparisons fill out all sections.
Purchasees must fill out: Section 2, the first three questions in Section 3, and Section 5A.
Leasees must fill out: Section 2, Section 3, Section 4, and Section 6A.

Section 1: Type of sale
The purpose of this section is to provide information to the Sale Information section. This will help to determine dealer cost as well as your potential negotiating margin.
For leases, your negotiating margin will also be influenced by the lease acquisition fee as well as the money factor. If you pay in excess of their respective baseline quantities
on the "Data" sheet, this will be reflected in greater negotiating margin.

In this section, enter the following quantities:
1. Purchase Type [Lease/Buy]: Choose the appropriate value for your type of purchase
2. Delivery Type [US/Euro]: If you are picking up your car at the BMW Welt in Germany choose Euro, otherwise choose US

Section 2: Sale Information
In this section, enter the following quantities:
1. Base vehicle MSRP: The price of the base vehicle before options, fees, etc.
2. Total of Options MSRP: The price of all the options the car has summed together.
3. Dealer Incentives: The total of any amounts the dealer is reimbursed for your purchase.
4. Sales Price: The negotiated sales price of the car including handling before any fees.
5. Admin/Misc/Doc Fees: The total of all paperwork fees charged by the dealer.
Note: This may include temporary registration. Do NOT add in any full registration/titling/licensing fees.​
6. Lease Acquisition Fee (leases only): The fee the dealer is charging to establish your lease agreement.

Section 3: Tax Questions
In this section, enter the following quantities:
1. Tax Rate: Enter the tax rate you'll pay based on your location - may be a combination of state and local taxes.
2. Admin/Misc/Doc Fees Taxable [Yes/No]: Typically, these fees are NOT taxable, however if they are then select yes.
3. Trade In Tax Deduction [Yes/No]: In most states, the taxable amount is reduced by the value of your trade in. If it isn't select no.
4. Lease Acquisition Fee Taxable (leases only) [Yes/No]: Typically this fee is taxable, but if it is not then select no.
5. Lease Interest Taxable (leases only) [Yes/No]: In some states, the interest paid on leases is taxable. If this is not true about your state, select no.
6. Residual Value Taxable (leases only) [Yes/No]: In most states, taxes are only paid on the depreciation, however if your state taxes the full value of the car then select yes.

Section 4: Lease Cash Flow Questions
In this section, enter how the following quantities are paid:
1. Admin/Misc/Doc Fees [Cash At Signing/Cap Cost Adjustment]: Generally these are paid as Cash due at signing.
2. Lease Acquisition Fee [Cash At Signing/Cap Cost Adjustment]: Generally this is paid as Cash due at signing.
3. Lease Taxes: Some states require taxes to be paid up front, but you may have the option to finance the taxes.
Cash At Signing: Simple, taxes are paid in a single cash payment at signing.​
Cap Cost Adjustment: Taxes are added to the cap cost and are implicitly reflected in the monthly lease payments via greater cap cost.​
Monthly Payments: Taxes are paid monthly and are an explicit component of the monthly lease payment.​

Section 5A: Finance Information
In this section, enter the following quantities:
1. Term: The number of months your financing agreement lasts for (typically 36-72).
2. Net Trade In Value: The value offered for your trade in less any balance owed on the trade in vehicle.
3. Down Payment: The amount of cash paid upfront towards the vehicle purchase.
4. Interest Rate: The annual interest rate on your auto loan.

Section 5B: Tax Information (Purchase)
Nothing to enter here, rather this section shows a breakdown of how the tax was calculated for your purchase.

Section 5C: Finance Details
Nothing to enter here, rather this section shows a breakdown of how much was paid for the car, how much was financed, and what the total cost of the purchase was with any interest paid over the financing term.

Section 6A: Lease Information
In this section, enter the following quantities:
1. Term: The number of months your leasing agreement lasts for (typically 24-39).
2. Net Trade In Value: The value offered for your trade in less any balance owed on the trade in vehicle.
3. Down Payment: The amount of cash paid upfront towards cap cost reductions.
4. Residual Value: The percentage of the vehicle's value (based off MSRP) remaining at lease termination.
Note: BMW issues fixed percentages for residual values based on the vehicle, annual mileage, and lease term. These values typically change monthly. It is up to the leasee to enter the correct residual. Additionally, it is also up to the leasee to perform their due diligence to ensure the residual he/she is being quoted is "fair."​
5. Base Money Factor: The money factor being offered to you before any additional security deposits.
6. # Extra Security Deposits: The number of extra security deposits you are making upfront to reduce your money factor.
With all leases you will pay 1 security deposit upfront, but this will not reduce your money factor. However, you can make a maximum of 7 extra security deposits (total of 8) to minimize your money factor.​

Section 6B: Tax Information (Lease)
Nothing to enter here, rather this section shows a breakdown of how the tax was calculated for your lease.

Section 6C: Lease Details
Nothing to enter here, rather this section shows a breakdown of the lease depreciation, interest, and taxes. This section calculates the monthly lease payment as well as the amoutn of cash due at signing. Lastly, it also presents the amount of cash you would pay if you chose to make a cash purchase of the vehicle at the residual value upon lease termination. This may be helpful for a purchase/lease comparison.

Section 7: The "Data" Sheet
The values on this sheet can be considered to be relatively constant, however should you need to change anything here is a description of all the values on this sheet.
1. Base Discount Ratio: Percent of the base vehicle MSRP that the dealer pays. Note that this value depends on the type of delivery being taken. See column B for the respective delivery type.
2. Options Discount Ratio: Percent of the lines/packages/options that the dealer pays. Does not include destination and handling.
3. Destination Cost: Destination and Handling cost. This does not get discounted in the dealer's cost.
4. Lease Acquisition Benchmark: BMW's advertised cost for the Lease Acquisition Fee. Any Lease Acquisition fee paid in excess of this amount increases your negotiating margin.
5. Money Factor Benchmark: BMW's advertised minimum base money factor for US deliveries. Generally, this value is higher by 0.0003 for European Deliveries. MF paid in excess of this amount increases your negotiating margin.
6. SD Reduction: The amount your money factor is decreased by each additional security deposit.
7. Max # Extra SDs: The maximum number of additional security deposits you can make to lower your Money Factor.
8. SD Rounding Increment: The nearest amount your monthly payment will be rounded up to in order to determine the base cost of an individual security deposit.
Example: With a lease payment of $507 and an increment of $50, the cost of each security deposit will be $550.​
9. Lease Disposition Fee: The amount you will pay at the end of the lease should you not choose to purchase the car or enter into a new lease agreement with BMW.
 
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#125 ·
Well all I was stressing on the monthly payment number all kind of fees rolled in and that came out to be
550 per month for next 36 months.
As I plan to turn in the car after lease end ,did not care much about the residual or money factor and no security deposit.

Thanks
 
#126 ·
But along with the MSRP and agreed upon price, the residual, money factor and security deposits are what determine your monthly payment.
Going with your MSRP and selling price, BMW's (minimum) acquisition fee of $795, 36m/30K residual of 61% and BMW's current MF of .0013 it all equates to approx a $475 monthly. If you put down a maximum of 7 security deposits (for a total of $3.6K including the first month) the MF drops down to .00081 and a monthly of about $430 (including taxes).
In that light, $550 a month sounds like a very bad deal to me.
 
#128 ·
So if I am understanding this right according the info you just gave ;for the entire lease term of 36 months for car with sticker price of 58k+ the total out of pocket (all fees rolled over in monthly payment) should be around 375X36=Around $13500.-14000...?.( no deposit)
 
#132 ·
By the way, if you go the first page of this thread, you can download a lease and finance worksheet by dwlink with instructions. If you play around a little with it, you will be able to figure out the monthly's of any lease (not only BMW's). You might have to adjust for state sales tax and a few other things, but with msrp, selling price (including fees), residual and money factor you can calculate any and all leases (or financing).
 
#135 ·
That would be true if a lease residual value is the same as market value. However, residual value in a lease only has effect on your monthly payment and the amount you can buy the car for from the lessor at lease end. 'Inflated' residual value now will mean lower monthly payments and highly likelihood the lessee will not want to hang on to the car at lease end as it would cost you considerably more than market value. So BMW jacks up the residual of the outgoing model because the car is losing value to them quickly and garantuees that in three years you will be shopping for a new car again, likely to be a new BMW.
 
#136 ·
There are three end-of-lease scenarios:

- the car has a market value exactly equal to the residual. In this case it doesn't matter whether the consumer buys or not;

- the car's market value is above the residual, in which case the consumer gets a good deal by buying it;

- the car's market value is below the residual. This seems to be the BMW approach as described above. Can the consumer use this as leverage? For example, if the market value at turn-in time is $25k but the residual (set artificially high to move the car in the first place) is $30k, would BMW ever accept a buy out offer lower than the residual rather than take the car back?
 
#147 ·
Working through final details of a deal through car broker (thanks for the great tip, voip-ninja!).

2016 340i w/ Xdrive
A83 - Glacier Silver Metallic
ZDA - Driver assistance package
ZCW Cold Weather Package
LCL8 - Black Dakota Leather with Dark Oyster highlight
ZMP M - Sport Package
4FT - Brushed Aluminum Trim with gloss black highlight
609 - Navigation system (priced separately, not part of the tech package)

MSRP: $54,450
Invoice:$50,840
Current offer: $51,590 (invoice + $750).

At this moment, I plan to buy, so lease details not relevant. Does this sound about right?
 
#154 ·
Year/Model: 2016 328i xDrive SportWagon
MSRP: $58,070
Invoice: $36,540 (ED)
Options/Packages: A75, LCL8, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZMP, 2VF, ZPP, ZTP, 5DL, 688
Cash Down/ **MSD: $0
Negotiated Price: $51,665
*Money Factor: 0.00130 + 0.0003 markup due to ED
*Lease term/Miles: 36/10k
*Lease Payment: $598.67
Other Pertinent Information: 0% Tax
$75 Doc fee
$374 registration, title etc
 
#158 ·
ok went to deanship for 335xi but instead got a quote for Tanzanite blue m4 coupe 2015.

MSRP:79430
Selling Price:73660(Almost invoice)
TEAM USA DRIVE EVENT:$1K voucher
Lease acq fee+Doc fee;$1300(795+499)

Net SP:$74K
Residual:61 for 36mon/30k miles
MFF:.0013

Monthly payment comes around:$890

What you guys think?

Regards,
Vasu
 
#163 ·
It sounds highly unfavorable with huge dealer profit.
Euro invoice, depending on options, is around 86-87% of US MSRP.
To calculate Euro invoice: .93*Base Euro ($37,110 for 328d) + .91*Options US MSRP + $995 D&H. Typical euro selling price is about 500-1000 above that.
Current Euro MF is .0016.
Based on .88*46540, 59% RV and .0016 MF, monthly should be around $515-525/month with just under $2K due at signing with no down payment. Extra security deposits can bring the MF down to .00111 (7xMSD) and $480-490/month.
 
#177 ·
I don't quite get the hatred of dealer markup of MF to the exclusion of the rest of a deal. I leased a car at max markup, which probably gave the dealer an extra $1400 or so over the 36 months. However, they sold the car at $2,500 below what I thought was possible (including board sponsors) due to it being an off the lot 2015. Overall the deal seemed more than fair, I didn't have to wait for 2016 lease numbers and take that risk, and the finance manager even saved me some on my MSD deposits (I didn't understand the cutoffs). All this despite the dreaded MF markup.
 
#178 ·
I think the negativity about it has to do with the fact people often don't know about it, so when they hear about it they feel a little mislead by the dealer.

I don't think there is a day goes by we don't see a new member here asking about their deal and the MF is marked up without them being aware of it.

So you lease a car thinking the dealer made say around $1,000 over invoice and you feel like that is fair, only to find out later the dealer made an extra $1,400 (from your example) by marking up the MF. You are not going to be so happy about your deal now are you?

I get what you are saying that there might be times the deal is otherwise so good it would be okay to let the dealer make some money on a MF markup. But just going by what we see new members coming in here and asking, I think that is rarely the case.
 
#180 ·
I understand dealers have to make a profit too...and they can do that in the price. But I have excellent credit. Is it wrong of me to ask for the best rate? That is common with interest rates.

The sad thing is they haven't even checked my credit, yet they immediately quoted .0017. That seems almost disrespectful.
 
#181 ·
Dealer is trying to make extra profit.

Tell them that you know that they are marking up the MF for extra profit, and if they insist on doing that you expect an equal amount to be taken out of the sale price of the car.

If you agreed on $1000 over invoice for example and the dealer is marking up the MF you are really paying $2400 over invoice on the car and your decent deal is no longer a decent deal.

Or... if you don't have to buy the particular car they have on the lot, look to other dealers.

If you are buying a 2015 model it should be very heavily discounted right now, and lease should have an excellent residual so you should be getting the best deal available so that they can move it off the lot and free up space for a 2016 car.

The way I look at it is this. Dealer is entitled to a fair profit and customer is entitled to a fair deal. On the 2015s, a good price right now is probably $1000-$1500 under invoice at a larger volume dealer and maybe invoice price at a smaller dealer.

If you feel you are paying too much for the car then just walk.
 
#183 · (Edited)
I'm definitely on the fence about what to do.

The only reason I don't go straight to one of the recommended guys and just order one is because residuals are so crappy on 2016 4-series right now, especially if you need more than 10k mi per year.

(That and, well, I dislike the chrome window trim they added back for 2016. I don't see "wrapping" the trim as a good solution in hot climate.)
 
#185 ·
Going into the dealership tomorrow, and I'm trying to get their numbers to line up with what the spreadsheet is telling me. Unfortunately I'm having trouble.

45,545 MSRP
39,824 Agreed lease price

7 MSDs
( Haven't decided on 12k vs 15k, but here is the 12k numbers he gave me)

$413 before tax, $446.18 with tax ( 8%)

I just asked for what MF and Residual he's using, since I couldn't get the numbers to add up.

But assuming .0013, and 65% residual. My payment after tax should be 369.09 (according to the spreadsheet).

Now if I put Yes on "Residual Value is Taxed", then the total gets closer ( $434 ). I'm in Southern California, and I can't seem to double check if this is correct.

Now unlike other dealers, he hasn't sent me a Lease breakdown sheet, and has just been giving me the numbers over email. I'd like to assume this isn't malicious.

Its entirely possible I'm using the excel sheet wrong, so does his numbers look reasonable?

Thanks,
 
#186 ·
Going into the dealership tomorrow, and I'm trying to get their numbers to line up with what the spreadsheet is telling me. Unfortunately I'm having trouble.

45,545 MSRP
39,824 Agreed lease price

7 MSDs
( Haven't decided on 12k vs 15k, but here is the 12k numbers he gave me)

$413 before tax, $446.18 with tax ( 8%)

I just asked for what MF and Residual he's using, since I couldn't get the numbers to add up.

But assuming .0013, and 65% residual. My payment after tax should be 369.09 (according to the spreadsheet).

Now if I put Yes on "Residual Value is Taxed", then the total gets closer ( $434 ). I'm in Southern California, and I can't seem to double check if this is correct.

Now unlike other dealers, he hasn't sent me a Lease breakdown sheet, and has just been giving me the numbers over email. I'd like to assume this isn't malicious.

Its entirely possible I'm using the excel sheet wrong, so does his numbers look reasonable?

Thanks,
I get the same numbers you do. California doesn't tax the residual value of the vehicle in a lease (some of the states that do are Arkansas, Maryland, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia and I'm not sure if Illinois still does).
I also don't think your salesman is malicious. Say, if 50% of customers do never inquire about MF, RV and just go by the 'monthly', the salesman has huge incentive to just give you that, monthlies without actually providing the numbers that count.
I would assume your salesman is using a different MF, has thrown in this or that fee, or perhaps never calculated a monthly and just throws out a number. If he can get you to agree to a monthly payment without giving you the numbers that count, the finance office will make it stick.
 
#187 ·
My advice regardless be it a lease or a purchase is to simply show the dealer your numbers. The spreadsheet in the first post should serve as a nice breakdown of invoice pricing. As well as incentives.

If you need financing, do 1 hour of legwork and bring a bank to the table - you'll get a far better interest rate than going through the dealership's "finance guy." Work for an employer with a credit union? You'll probably get the best interest rate through them unless BMW is running a financing incentive which typically only takes place over the holidays or when a new MY is about to arrive on dealer lots.

If you are leasing, leverage the information on bimmerfest for current residuals and MFs. A MF of 0.0013 has been the BMW base rate for the past few months. Residuals will fluctuate a bit - especially on the 3 series because its LCI year for them. Expect the same on the 4 series next year around the same time.

Nonetheless if they don't budge, your feet talk more than your words.
 
#188 ·
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I was afraid that was the case. I think I jumped the gun by agreeing based on "sell price". The monthly seemed in line with other offers I was getting from other dealers (who did list the MF and residual) so I assumed they were on the up and up.

I did give a $1k deposit, for them to get the car from another dealer. I assume that will be hard to get back if they don't budge. :-(
 
#189 ·
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I was afraid that was the case. I think I jumped the gun by agreeing based on "sell price". The monthly seemed in line with other offers I was getting from other dealers (who did list the MF and residual) so I assumed they were on the up and up.

I did give a $1k deposit, for them to get the car from another dealer. I assume that will be hard to get back if they don't budge. :-(
Not necessarily. Also depends on what kind of agreement you signed, if any. Dealers deal with these kind of things on a regular basis. I think it would be sort of fair if they hold on to the deposit and refund it when they sell the car that you're backing out of.
 
#192 ·
Again, thank you everyone for the replies. So here's the numbers I got from the dealer.

They're giving me 65% residual and .0017 MF. My credit is excellent ( 780+). I should qualify for .00130 easy right?

Even at that high rate, I should be getting $400 AFTER tax, not $410 BEFORE tax.

Do you guys suggest forwarding them a copy of the spreadsheet and saying "Why aren't your numbers matching with this?"

Thank!
 
#193 ·
Again, thank you everyone for the replies. So here's the numbers I got from the dealer.

They're giving me 65% residual and .0017 MF. My credit is excellent ( 780+). I should qualify for .00130 easy right?

Even at that high rate, I should be getting $400 AFTER tax, not $410 BEFORE tax.

Do you guys suggest forwarding them a copy of the spreadsheet and saying "Why aren't your numbers matching with this?"

Thank!
We have already recommended you talk to another dealer.

You made a big error when you gave them a deposit without having the terms completely ironed out.

.0017 MF is an inflated MF if you have top rated credit. You can easily have another dealer run your credit and verify what MF they will charge you, especially if you let them know you are already aware that current top tier MF is .0013.
 
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