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Do NOt Buy A BMW Diesel Engine Car Without Understanding this Risk

39K views 575 replies 75 participants last post by  Michael Schott 
#1 ·
You can do everything right as an owner and inadvertently catch a bad tank of fuel and incur a $10K engine fix. THIS IS NOT A WARRANTABLE ITEM. And once you go out of pocket $10K to get your car back on the road, the risk remains and will be yours to bear if it happens again. The risk remains as long as you own the car.

I wish I hadn't been so ignorant when I bought mine. Think long and hard about the purchase and understand the risk you take on. BMW NA will never accept responsibility for this. You will not know when you get bad diesel until its too late and, contrary to other opinions and posts, it's NOT limited to off-brand stations. The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.

I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.
 
#2 ·
Bad tank of diesel ruined your engine? Thats on the fuel station, not you. If you have the receipt, you need to call the fuel station, tell them what happened and ask for their insurance information and file a claim.

To be fair, this isn't just a diesel problem. Anyone can receive a bad tank of fuel, gasoline or diesel, and cause lots of issues. Its up to the fuel station to check the quality of their fuel and to pay for the damages caused by the bad tank.

That said, there are other issues with the diesels in the US that people should take into consideration when buying: injectors and urea tank (I'm about to have my 4th urea tank installed on my e90 335d) fail a lot and can be costly outside of warranty.
 
#3 ·
Do you know of any other owners who have experienced this? It sounds like it could just be an isolated incidence. If it's the case of bad fuel, it can happen to anyone with any car manufacturer, not limited to just BMW.

Similarly, those who use gasoline can experience problems too if they leave their cars sitting around for long periods of time. Ethanol attracts water and we all know that's bad for engines too.
 
#4 · (Edited)
1) whats a 428D wagon?

2) if you got a bad tank of fuel, the station that sold the fuel is liable, simply go back. they all carry insurance for that. they will be responsible for all repair costs

3) or are you saying you accidentally filled up with gasoline instead of diesel

your factual commentary is lacking in, well, facts. aside from your statements that a tank of fuel ruined your car and bmw wont fix it under warranty. they shouldnt. the service station that sold the fuel should be footing the bill.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Fuel standards and quality are pretty stringent, it's regulated and not like it's all over the place. If the gas station accidentally put diesel in their gasoline tanks, then they are liable. If their service attendant (oregon?) put gas in your car without asking, they are liable. If their fuel was so screwed up for some crazy reason (tanks falling apart, ground-water seeping in, etc?), they would be liable. If you paid with a CC or debit, you can go back, find the exact transaction, and have your CC company get a receipt, in addition to the record of the transaction the CC/bank already has. Then you can take them to court for the costs incurred. Get a letter signed by your BMW service manager that states the cause of the engine failure was the bad fuel. Sue the station for the costs incurred and everything that was affected.

End of thread.
 
#7 ·
I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.
Your factual commentary is really light on facts. I do hope it works out for you and I understand you're upset, but it's a little early in your story to be blaming the engine. Once you've "vectored" back to the gas station and talked to their insurance company, let us know how it worked out.

There was another thread here from a guy who got water in his engine from bad gas, and the gas station took care of all the costs for a replacement engine. If it truly was the diesel fuel and BMW is 100% sure with evidence, then the gas station's insurance should make you whole.
 
#8 ·
Several comments:
Bad gas can cost you a bundle but it isn't limited to diesel. Many years ago I drove from Dallas to NYC and caught bad gas in Texarkana, TX. OMG what a ride! Backfires, misfires, the engine cutting out suddenly on the interstate. Had to replace the spark plugs in Memphis. Muffler blew out from a backfire in Virginia. What a horror.

Since then I NEVER let the tank get any less than half full.

If I start to pump gas and the pump shuts off right away, I may try again, but after two times I pay for what I pumped and go to another station.

Perhaps legally the gas station is liable, but try proving it. Sure, if they put diesel in the gasoline holding tanks you, and probably a lot of other people, have an easy case. But if the storage tanks are almost empty, and ground water has leaked into the tanks...try proving that.

If it were only you, you'd have to prove it was that particular station, and/or find other people having the same problem from that station. This would be a bigger legal mess.
 
#14 ·
I've heard of this happening a few times, over many years, across different brands. As I seem to remember the fault sometimes is with the owner and sometimes with the station. My wife and I just finished a 19.5k trip though 36 states over a six month period. No issues with any of our diesel purchases and we averaged 44.3 miles to the gallon.

There's always a possibility of something bad happening in life, but the thing to watch is the probabilities of said event occurring!

Leon McKee
 
#16 ·
The only diesel car we owned was a 1979 Mercedes 300D. Back then, the gas pump filler nozzle would not fit into the diesel fuel filler on the car. Is that the same as it is today? If so, you can't make a mistake. But, a diesel filler nozzle will fit into a gas fuel filler if I'm remembering correctly?
 
#19 ·
There are two diesel nozzles: the older big ones that are too big for unleaded gasoline cars. And the other one is a bit smaller, and engages the miss-fueling protection device in the BMW fillers. (There are the other way big ones at most truck stops for fast fueling of 50 gallon tanks.)

BMW gives diesel owners a funnel that engages the miss-fueling device, but you can put the larger/old-style diesel nozzle in the other end.
 
#18 ·
Back in the 80s, living in Russia, when I was about 13 years old, my Dad would let me fool around with his old Lada, yes I drove it around on my own at 13.
I once poured what I thought was gasoline into the gas tank from a canister my Dad had in the garage. There was strange engine noise and knocking for a while.
It went away eventually. When my Dad got home from the business trip he asked me what happened to half a canister of diesel he had sitting in the garage.
Those cars could take some abuse
 
#20 ·
Why would BMW, or any mfg, ever be responsible for bad gas/diesel in your car? Go after Shell, or the distributor, or the station owner. Call your insurance company. Why would you even waste your time trying to get anything out of BMW. I don't get the point here. :dunno:
 
#26 ·
Sorry to hear this happen. :cry:

I am eager to know if it is because of "bad quality of diesel" or "gas" in diesel engine. If former, I will try to be much more cautious about going to random stations and stick with reputed ones. But in either of these scenarios, I would chase the fuel station (like most folks pointed above)

It is not practical to warn every single thing in person when you sign the deal. There is manual where things are explained in detail with warnings etc.

Hope you will find a quick resolution to this without having to pay out of pocket.
 
#30 ·
Sorry to hear this happen. :cry:

I am eager to know if it is because of "bad quality of diesel" or "gas" in diesel engine. If former, I will try to be much more cautious about going to random stations and stick with reputed ones. But in either of these scenarios, I would chase the fuel station (like most folks pointed above.
Agree. Gotta go after the station.

I've traveled across the country twice in the last six months, using diesel. Like gasoline, I look for busy stations (fresh fuel) and fast flow (clean filters).

I only had one fuel-related check engine light, from crap diesel at a Valero station in Key Largo FL.
 
#29 ·
I feel bad for the OP, whether self-inflicted, or due to a mix up when the tanks at the station were filled. That sucks.

At any rate, every time I fill up the truck, I look at the pump nozzle and literally say out loud, "diesel, diesel, diesel" before I squeeze the grip. :bigpimp:
 
#33 ·
Maybe I missed something, but I don't really get the part about the dealership performing an extended test drive and saying everything's ok, and then going back to the "final" diagnosis of gas in the tank and cough up the money to fix it.

If that indeed is their final word, I would be inclined to drive - or if necessary have the car towed - to another dealership and get a second opinion. I would just show up in the loaner and leave in my car without any further discussion. Good luck.
 
#39 ·
Maybe I missed something, but I don't really get the part about the dealership performing an extended test drive and saying everything's ok, and then going back to the "final" diagnosis of gas in the tank and cough up the money to fix it.

If that indeed is their final word, I would be inclined to drive - or if necessary have the car towed - to another dealership and get a second opinion. I would just show up in the loaner and leave in my car without any further discussion. Good luck.
Thanks. We went to the dealer today for the sit-down 'bad news' talk. Total estimate of repair is (sitting down...?) $22,450, non-warrantable. We have no data or analytics that proves what they claim is a mix of diesel, gasoline and water in the tank. (for all cynics, no we did not also pump water into the tank). We can't take the car to non dealer for fix because the warranty will be voided, even though the issue was non-warrantable to begin with. Can't make this stuff up.

BMW NA says they take the word of the dealer tech and we can't see or have any proof. Dealer says BMW NA is final word and their hands are tied. We're in an expensive no mans land.
 
#34 ·
I'm an investigator by trade, so maybe I have a different perspective on this, but if this happened through no fault of your own, you should have recourse in lawsuit. It's just about gathering the proper evidence and documenting it.

You document everything that happened and sign the statement. Everything, so looking back, think about where you drove, what you did, when you got gas, who told you what, etc. Do this ASAP, because it only gets worse with time.

Get statements from people you have interacted with or have knowledge of it due to telling them.

You give BMW 10 days to respond to a registered return-receipt letter asking them for a signed statement of what caused the malfunction and what their test results were and how long/much fuel caused the damange. If they fail you provide this, you send a 2nd certified return-receipt letter stating that they refused to comply with your request for results and determinations of the car's malfunction. Then you have the start of what you need to sue BMW. It sounds like in this case that it's not BMW's fault, but if they aren't going to give you this information, you need to play hardball with them.

You go and get a copy of your bank records that show your fill-ups and have your CC company get you the actual receipts. I've done this before. It might even show the type of fuel or at least the price/gallon.

Now you send a registered return-receipt letter to Shell, you don't necessarily put all your cards on the table in terms of explaining all the details, but you definitely say what happened, summarized what BMW told you in their response, and so on, request they reimburse you for the repairs, provide a receipt for the repairs, ask for them to respond in 10 days and say that if a response is not received, you will file a claim in small claims court (happens to have $10,000 limit :) ) for the amount or maximum that could be covered. Although you might be able to do this in a court other than small claims, there you could keep the costs down and at the very least, if all of this fails, probably force Shell to spend more than $10,000 for their attorney's time on retainer in all associated costs. You've got a pretty good paper trail by now though and most attorney's will advise the company to settle, because it will be cheaper and the plaintiff appears to have all their "ducks in a row". You could also see about having a local law office take the case, but it's going to be hard to break even and they are simply going to do or have someone do most of the things I'm mentioning here.

If something like this happened to me and I knew I was not at fault (as in I didn't put gasoline in my tank or fail to exercise due diligence), you can bet I'd be doing all of these things and more.
 
#47 ·
I'm an investigator by trade, so maybe I have a different perspective on this, but if this happened through no fault of your own, you should have recourse in lawsuit. It's just about gathering the proper evidence and documenting it.

You document everything that happened and sign the statement. Everything, so looking back, think about where you drove, what you did, when you got gas, who told you what, etc. Do this ASAP, because it only gets worse with time.

Get statements from people you have interacted with or have knowledge of it due to telling them.

You give BMW 10 days to respond to a registered return-receipt letter asking them for a signed statement of what caused the malfunction and what their test results were and how long/much fuel caused the damange. If they fail you provide this, you send a 2nd certified return-receipt letter stating that they refused to comply with your request for results and determinations of the car's malfunction. Then you have the start of what you need to sue BMW. It sounds like in this case that it's not BMW's fault, but if they aren't going to give you this information, you need to play hardball with them.

You go and get a copy of your bank records that show your fill-ups and have your CC company get you the actual receipts. I've done this before. It might even show the type of fuel or at least the price/gallon.

Now you send a registered return-receipt letter to Shell, you don't necessarily put all your cards on the table in terms of explaining all the details, but you definitely say what happened, summarized what BMW told you in their response, and so on, request they reimburse you for the repairs, provide a receipt for the repairs, ask for them to respond in 10 days and say that if a response is not received, you will file a claim in small claims court (happens to have $10,000 limit :) ) for the amount or maximum that could be covered. Although you might be able to do this in a court other than small claims, there you could keep the costs down and at the very least, if all of this fails, probably force Shell to spend more than $10,000 for their attorney's time on retainer in all associated costs. You've got a pretty good paper trail by now though and most attorney's will advise the company to settle, because it will be cheaper and the plaintiff appears to have all their "ducks in a row". You could also see about having a local law office take the case, but it's going to be hard to break even and they are simply going to do or have someone do most of the things I'm mentioning here.

If something like this happened to me and I knew I was not at fault (as in I didn't put gasoline in my tank or fail to exercise due diligence), you can bet I'd be doing all of these things and more.
Thanks for this and it's pretty much where I am right now. The whole thing doesn't seem to add up and we have all the documentation we need to create the fact basis and timeline to do what you suggest. Looks like a good weekend chore.

Meanwhile the dealer wants it's loaner back and has said they will start charging mileage from here forward. Crazy. This is not the BMW I had come to know during my M5 euro delivery process, prior 3 series ownership of two other cars etc.

Thanks again.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I almost 100% buy my gas at Costco as it is near where I live, work and the volume alone says to me that the Gas is clean and the Costco name is behind it, so if I have any problems I know that Costco will make it right.

Unfortunately they do not sell diesel, so that would not help the original writer of this thread, but I did have an issue with a Shell Gas Station and bad gas. A few miles out of the station the check engine light came on and a few minutes after that the car came to a stop and would not turn over nor do anything else, so luckily I was able to coast into a parking lot and call road side assistance.

My Navigator was towed to the nearest dealer (not the dealership that I usually brought the truck too) and they diagnosed the issue as being caused by bad gas and thus not covered under the warranty. The Service Writer said that I should go to the station and their insurance should take care of me and I said yeah right, but went over anyway. Lo and behold the sales clerk called a number of the owner and I spoke with the owner over the phone who gave me the number of his insurance company and said to me that the insurance will take care of everything. I was shocked and awed and how seemingly easy it was till that point (and throughout the entire process). After the phone call with the owner he had the clerk shut down the pump that I used and gave me a $200 Shell Gift card on the spot.

I called the Insurance and after they got a letter directly from the dealer that the issue was caused by bad gas and my fax of my receipt from the station, they paid for the entire repair.

To this day, I have been shocked at how easy it was, way easier than auto insurance claims for a car accident.
 
#36 ·
I almost 100% buy my gas at Costco as it is near where I live, work and the volume alone says to me that the Gas is clean and the Costco name is behind it, so if I have any problems I know that Costco will make it right.

Unfortunately they do not sell diesel, so that would not help the original writer of this thread, but I did have an issue with a Shell Gas Station and bad gas. A few miles out of the station the check engine light came on and a few minutes after that the car came to a stop and would not turn over nor do anything else, so luckily I was able to coast into a parking lot and call road side assistance.

My Navigator was towed to the nearest dealer (not the dealership that I usually brought the truck too) and they diagnosed the issue as being caused by bad gas and thus not covered under the warranty. The Service Writer said that I should go to the station and their insurance should take care of me and I said yeah right, but went over anyway. Lo and behold the sales clerk called a number of the owner and I spoke with the owner over the phone who gave me the number of his insurance company and said to me that the insurance will take care of everything. I was shocked and awed and how seemingly easy it was till that point (and throughout the entire process). After the phone call with the owner he had the clerk shut down the pump that I used and gave me a $200 Shell Gift card on the spot.

I called the Insurance and after they got a letter directly from the dealer that the issue was caused by bad gas and my fax of my receipt from the station, they paid for the entire repair.

To this day, I have been shocked at how easy it was, way easier than auto insurance claims for a car accident.
I was about to ask about the OP's auto insurance policy. Your repair bill is probably covered.
 
#42 ·
Ideally gas station would pay but it seems that may be difficult to prove. Would your own insurance cover this? Have you discussed it with them yet?
 
#44 ·
If you have any friends that are attorneys it wouldn't hurt to give them a call. A friendly letter on an attorney's letterhead will likely draw attention from the gas station or BMW NA.
OP can't even say where he got the bad gas. He has narrowed it down to one or two stations. Unless one of those stations is getting other complaints, OP can't prove anything, so the "friendly" letter would essentially have to ask if they have received other complaints. And--they may be willing to share the info, if they in fact, had a tank of bad gas.

I wonder if the state's dept of weights and measures, or other agency with oversight of gas stations, keeps records of this kind of thing?
 
#72 ·
What a horrifying story JoePark. Regardless of how this ultimately ends, what the root cause was, and who will be financially responsible, I empathize with your plight because you're likely to be saddled with the process of sorting this through for quite a while. I would appreciate your updates with whatever you discover as to cause(s) and thank you in advance for posting that information when it becomes available. Now that a bunch of people are aware of this, and there is no shortage of speculation, it would be nice to know what actually happened so others can try to avoid some similar circumstances; whatever they are.

Curious though, which dealer are you working with?
 
#73 ·
That or there's something else going on, like the OP knows he is culpable for some reason and is just mad about it. Not saying that's exactly the case, but the lack of wanting to hold these parties responsible and just seeming to complain for the sake of complaining indicates that maybe something along these lines is the case. There's no way I'd let the gas station get away with that and if BMW wasn't telling me what their results/tests showed I'd be demanding them. Something doesn't make sense here.
 
#74 ·
Ouch, buddy. This sucks. Understand your frustration for sure.

Because it's a potential $22k hit, I suggest you reach out to an attorney for some help.

I also recommend that you have a lab come out and take a sample of the fuel in your tank. I would assume they could test for the presence of water, gasoline, or other contaminants.

If the lab doesn't find anything, then you could have a Magnuson-Moss claim against BMWNA.

If the lab finds gasoline, water, or other containinates, then you'll have to find the gas station that sold you the bad fuel. I would expect it would have been the last gas station you went to before your car went into the shop. I would suggest you check Yelp or other review site for that gas station and see if others have had the same or similar issues.

Between the lab results, a written statement from BMW, and your fueling receipt, you should be able to present a strong case to the gas station and maybe get them to settle with you for the costs of your repairs, legal fees, testing costs, etc.
 
#75 ·
Just to follow up and to clear up some misconceptions i wanted to add the fact-line for context where it may not have been clear from my original post.

My wife bought a 2015 328xD Wagon from a dealer in NC in May of this year. It was a showroom model and probably a demo because it had about 2K miles on the odometer at purchase.

All was great and we loved the car until October 29th. We had just returned from an 800 mile back and forth trip between NC and the Philadelphia area where we were visiting family when we noticed some sputtering, hesitation on acceleration and engine lethargy. We presented the car the next day to the dealer for analysis and have not had the car in our possession since that time. On presentation to the dealer the odometer read approx 14k miles.

For background, three diesel fueling's were done most recently prior to taking the car to the dealer. One was at a local (NC) Shell station at the start of the trip, one was done at a Shell station in Delaware as we began our return trip and one was done at the same local Shell station upon our return to NC. We have each of the original receipts in our possession from the three fuelings and each fueling was filling of the tank to capacity. Each of the original receipts states that the fuel was diesel. Both of the Shell stations have been contacted and each claims to have a high turnover of diesel fuel and no separate complaints from other sutomers regarding diesel fuel quality or engine trouble. Perhaps there is a legal route with the Shell stations but I don't really know how that would unfold. Not that its relevant but on our return trip from PA to NC we were in monsoon conditions for the duration of the 390 mile journey. Could this have introduced water into the fuel system? I doubt it but we asked that question of the dealer in our initial discussions.

Dealer techs were initially stumped. We had no engine light illuminated at any point. Their initial computer diagnostics indicated no issues with the car whatsoever. Four days after leaving the car wiht them the dealer CSR calls and says that it appears we have gasoline in our diesel fuel. The verbal communication was that they smelled gas and that gas smells different from diesel and therefore the fuel contained gasoline. They had not tested the fuel with any confirmatory analytics to prove this to either us or them. The CSR told us this was a non warrantable issue and that we would need to cover the repair cost. I rejected that assertion and asked for someone else to speak with. Incidentally, my estimate of a $10K repair bill was based on other information I have found from various internet sources where others have experienced similar problems. I never asked for a repair estimate until yesterday because I did not want to indicate that I was willing to pay the repair.

CSR put me in touch with a Fixed operations Director for the dealership group in NC and I contacted him. He said they were going to continue to run some tests, drain and flush the fuel system and see what they might be able to do. Over the course of the next several days we waited to hear the results. When we heard back from the dealer (the CSR) he said that it appeared that the flush and drain had solved the issue and that we would be able to pick up the car that afternoon (I believe this was November 19th). We went to pick up the car and were told it was on a final extensive test drive for confirmation that the fix was in fact working. We went home and awaited a call for pickup.

Instead we got a call (CSR) saying that the car had in fact exhibited symptoms during this test drive that were similar to the original ones we presented with and that the fix therefore had not worked. We were told that we should contact BMW NA for resolution because their working assumption and diagnosis was that gas was in the diesel fuel and that BMW NA would be the only source for assistance if we were going to get any relief on the repair.

We contacted BMW NA and routed through three people until I was put on the phone with Jaime who claimed to be the final point of contact and decision authority. She listened to the story and said she would advocate on our behalf with the dealer and get back to us with a conclusion/position. This conversation was on November 20th. We never did hear back from her with any follow-up and instead called her on November 30th to find out what was going on. She said that the dealer diagnosis was final and that we had no additional recourse.

We have no data or analytics from a test of the fuel which was supposedly taken from the car but we were told that an analysis was done of the fuel and that the test sample indicated that there was a trace mix of water and gasoline in the diesel fuel sample. We have not seen this data nor do we know who took the sample, who tested it, what that test was or when it was done.

While I was traveling this week the dealer requested that my wife come to the dealership to discuss the repair. She went in yesterday morning. When she walked in the door she was led to a boardroom where the Fixed Operations Director, the regional sales person, the CSR and the dealership's shop foreman were all present. A bit of a gang tackle in my opinion and unfortunately done without me present and so this pissed me off a little.

At that meeting they gave her a piece of paper detailing all of the fuel system repairs, components and labor, required to repair the car to a warrantable standard. The total of the repairs, roughly 18-20 line items, was $22,450. My original estimate of $10K based on information gathered over the internet was obviously woefully short of the actual apparent repair requirements. It was a short meeting thereafter as you might expect. They did say that we 1) can not take the car off the lot without voiding the warranty and 2) can not have any repair work done by an outside party without voiding the warranty. The car remains at the dealer. The car cost $45K and change in May and the repair bill therefore equates to roughly 50% of the acquisition cost.

I again reached out to BMW NA yesterday but have not heard back.

These are the facts as of today. My original post was and is factual and the risk does and will remain for this to happen to others, unless we're just being BS'd by the dealer as to what actually caused the damage, or they are inflating the cost of repair for some unknown reason. The fact does remain that if we were to fix the car, drive it off the dealer lot and fill the tank with bad fuel that we could theoretically incur the same event and same non-warrantable cost all over again. Hence my original post. I was ignorant to this possibility and others may be as well. I was and am trying to raise awareness. I appreciate all of the comments (the helpful ones anyway) from the forum and will follow-up when we have anything to share on the ultimate outcome.
 
#88 ·
Just to follow up and to clear up some misconceptions i wanted to add the fact-line for context where it may not have been clear from my original post.
It looks like the initial diagnosis of "it appears we have gasoline in the our diesel fuel" is the basis of the declining warranty repair, but that sounds somewhat weak especially without analytical data.

One suggestion is (as others mentioned) to insist on a PUMA case(if not already filed) and demand a BMW field engineer to explain what exactly went wrong. The foreman has final word of the dealer, but the field engineer has final word of BMWNA. Ask the field engineer to clearly articulate the conclusion of "fuel contained gasoline" without any objective data. The F30 has lots of log data, since there was no CEL/warning messages, ECU probably did not detect any malfunction and hence no error/data logged, but then the foreman should provide a fuel analysis to backup that observation.

Also, the foreman(and for sure the field engineer) should articulate exactly what the engine damage is. Is it blown gasket? Or bent rods?

The comment of monsoon condition also matters, was there any occasion that the fuel door was opened under pouring rain?

Also, is there still a chance to truck(not drive) the car to another dealer for 2nd opinion?

Do note "sputtering, hesitation on acceleration and engine lethargy" can mean many things, it would suck big time if an issue that is supposed to be covered by warranty is diagnosed otherwise.
 
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