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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Infiniti steps into to the ring with BMW in this side-by-side. Infiniti brings its latest version of the Q50 to go against the almighty 3 Series. 'Infiniti cars have become significantly more contemporary and attractive in recent years. The signature front end with its dual arch grill and triangular headlamp assembly is both distinctive and aggressive without feeling forced or cartoonish like the Lexus spindle grille. The side profile presents just the right amount of rake with lines flowing from front to rear. It's an interesting combination of strong creases and smooth, contoured surfacing that feel purposeful and artistic.'It looks better than any previous Infiniti model, but is it strong enough to out shine the 3?

Infiniti Q50 Red Sport from the perspective of a BMW 3 Series owner

3 vs Q50

3 vs Q50

3 vs Q50

3 vs Q50

3 vs Q50

3 vs Q50

Check out the review of the Infiniti Q50 here!
 

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#297 · (Edited)
true but there's no escaping turbos atleast on German cars now - the sixes and eights have them too. Speaking of reliability issues I assume you are familiar with the myriad of problems with bmws n63 v8? And if you don't like balance shafts you better stay away from V6s as well. They all have them.

You always could pay more to get more power, cylinders, etc. But keep in mind what the n20 replaced. It was a 3 liter 6 tuned to make 230 hp and 200 ft lb of torque. This engine provided less performance in all situations. And BMW didn't really tune the exhaust to sound sporty in most models where it appeared such as the e90 328. Also got worse mileage and weighed more. Yes it was a bit smoother.

The turbo 6 also weighs more than the turbo 4. When the f30 came out, most reviewers commented on that and preferred the way the 328 handled due to its lighter nose. You might not care but to some that's a compromise.

And speaking of cost cutting, many complained at the time that it was an intentionally detuned version of the engine in the 330- same displacemnrbt but different intake (cheaper) and ecu tuning.
 
#307 ·
So, back to the Q50: Forbes--> 13 New Cars To Avoid For 2016

Infiniti Q50

Another also-ran within the European-dominated compact luxury sedan segment, Consumer Reports gives the Q50 an overall score of 57 and a reliability rating of minus-64. CR liked the compact Q50 luxury sedan’s acceleration, outward visibility and roomy interior, but criticized its unrefined power-train, fuel economy, ride and handling, controls, and front seat comfort. It scored below average in the JD Power Design/Performance study, and is expected to hold onto just 46% of its original value after three years and 32% after five years.
 
#308 ·
So, back to the Q50: Forbes--> 13 New Cars To Avoid For 2016

Infiniti Q50

Another also-ran within the European-dominated compact luxury sedan segment, Consumer Reports gives the Q50 an overall score of 57 and a reliability rating of minus-64. CR liked the compact Q50 luxury sedan's acceleration, outward visibility and roomy interior, but criticized its unrefined power-train, fuel economy, ride and handling, controls, and front seat comfort. It scored below average in the JD Power Design/Performance study, and is expected to hold onto just 46% of its original value after three years and 32% after five years.
(I sense feverish typing, raised blood pressures, CR disparaging references being copied - which of the two will reply first? Stay tuned.... [emoji39])
 
#319 ·
Mr joed2 and Duberalles - confirmation bias is an ugly thing ... but it makes for great thread entertainment ..;)

What Is a Confirmation Bias?

A confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias that involves favoring information that confirms previously existing beliefs or biases. For example, imagine that a person holds a belief that left-handed people are more creative than right-handed people. Whenever this person encounters a person that is both left-handed and creative, they place greater importance on this "evidence" supporting their already existing belief. This individual might even seek out "proof" that further backs up this belief while discounting examples that do not support this idea.

Confirmation biases impact how people gather information, but they also influence how people interpret and recall information. For example, people who support or oppose a particular issue will not only seek information that supports their beliefs, they will also interpret news stories in a way that upholds their existing ideas and remember things in a way that also reinforces these attitudes.

https://www.verywell.com/what-is-a-confirmation-bias-2795024
 
#322 ·
Wow, we are really getting deep now. Of course I will say the same about you and your bias.

Anyway this sounds familiar. I do concealed carry training here in FL. All the rage is
the .380 auto. the guns are cheap relative to larger calibers, ammo is cheaper. they are smaller & lighter than a 9mm or .40 so more convenient to carry. Recoil is less. But I recommend against them and say go the extra cash, effort & training to carry a more effective handgun as the .380 is a marginal stopper. Lot of people don''t care want the easiest route. Just like picking the 4 banger over the 6 cyl.
 
#321 · (Edited)
Just want to point out that having a 6 cylinder in the base 3 series was a 2 generation US only anomaly. Prior to the e46, it was a 4. And Mercedes and Audi have continuously offered 4s in their base models as long as I can remember. So it's nothing new nor some sign of the apocalypse. The difference is that this is the first time the 4 is a real contender in terms of performance.

Also, unless you are buying a base 328, you're likely spending enough on options to where a base 335 would cost the same (or less). So it's not even necessarily the case that buyers opt for the 4 because they can't afford the 6. They just prefer having some nice options over a slight improvement in smoothness, sound and power.

I think some of us are perplexed by how badly you guys need to have 6 or more cylinders and are willing to make all kinds of other trade offs / spend whatever it takes to get it.

If you are representative of other BMW customers, the 340 will soon carry a 15k premium!
 
#323 · (Edited)
Just want to point out that having a 6 cylinder in the base 3 series was a 2 generation US only anomaly. Prior to the e46, it was a 4. And Mercedes and Audi have continuously offered 4s in their base models as long as I can remember. So it's nothing new nor some sign of the apocalypse. The difference is that this is the first time the 4 is a real contender in terms of performance.
Very true...at the end of the day, entry level 4 cylinder BMWs have always existed so we are debating over nothing. The only "news" is that a 4 cylinder version is replacing a 3 liter straight 6 in that performance class.

My only beef with the 4 pot owners is when they try to convince others (and themselves) that "it is almost the same thing"....it is not.....never said they are bad engines, if anything the BMW inline 4 are probably among the best in the business...but the difference with the inline 6 and even with an excellent V6, is evident.

However, to be fair, in the 1980s the 4 cylinder BMW models (except for the E30 M3 and the 320is) were not highly regarded in Europe, 316, 318, 518 (but it needs to be said that a small engine 3 Series or 5 Series in Europe does not carry the same "status" that these cars have here for some people, especially the 3 Series is a very common company car across the pond)...power wise they were fairly anemic, pedestrian engines....very different from the new BMW 4s in comparison with their current competitors.
 
#343 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with a "4 banger". The N20 is a peppy engine, in both 320i and especially in 328i. I find the 320i to have ample power since I don't plan to run from the police.

Would I rather have a NA inline 6? Hell yeah I miss my N52 (and N55), but a good "4 banger" can be great fun too. In this scenario, it is harder to choose because BMW is legendary for smooth inline 6 engines.

Let's use another example: Cummins Inline 6 Turbo Diesels. I rest my case.
 
#352 ·
Anyone calling the 320 an economy car needs to spend some time in the Ford Focus I rented last week. Atrocious. The whole thing just reeks of snobbery. Ofcourse dude in the $100k BMW 6 series thinks that. Makes me wish a Yugo on his ass.
 
#353 ·
I'm with you, I hate those guys with there economy versions of the 6 Series. They're always acting like they have something special. Heck, they were too cheap to spring for Merino leather and ended up with low rent Nappa leather claiming that it looks the same and no one can tell the difference by just looking at it. I can tell and it just sickens me. : puke:

Wait... what did I just type? BJ must be channeling his socioeconomic wisdom through my keyboard. Help me... help mee...heeellp meeee...

Seriously, my 328dxT is a pretty nice car. There are some notable differences going from my M6 to the 328, but they aren't necessarily bad differences. Looking at the car as a whole, if I had to one thing to change, it would be to add a bit more wood to the center console. The little 4 pot diesel motor is awesome - it's zippy in traffic and cruises at 52mpgs on the highway. What's not to like? :thumbup:
 
#356 ·
I only have the two BMWs right now. The rest of the cars in my signature are my former BMWs. Although, my current pride and joy is 36 feet long, weighs 25,000lbs, and could tow a car hauler with a 3 Series and a Q50 on board. Even though it doesn't handle like a BMW, I love it so much that I want sleep in it. ;)
 
#361 ·
#362 · (Edited)
Sport with Navigation - $47,495
$4k cheaper than Red Sport.
Red Sport is now almost $700 per month to lease.
Sport is probably going to be around $650.

MSRP has no meaning in the real world.
A $60K BMW 340 can be leased for a little over $600 per month.
 
#365 · (Edited)
Actually the lease terms for a AWD red sport 36/12k is .00136mf 60%. How much does Infiniti allow their dealers do a max mark on the mf? BMW allows their dealers do a max markup of .0004 to the base mf. Audi allows dealer to do a much higher markup to the mf. Some dealers were marking up the mf by .001. On the 2017 A4. Infiniti's do have MSD's you can do up to 9 MSD's each one reducing the mf by .0001.
 
#366 ·
Actually the lease term for a AWD red sport 36/12k is .00136mf 60%. How much does Infiniti allow their dealers do a max mark on the mf. BMW allow their dealer do a max markup of .0004 to the base mf. Audi allows dealer to do a much higher markup to the mf. Some dealers were marking up the mf by .001. On the 2017 A4. Infiniti's do have MSD's you can do up to 9 MSD's each one reducing the mf by .0001.
Also how much off msrp can you get on the infinit?
 
#373 ·
As for pricing & what's a luxury car this by Kelly Blue book might be interesting.

Small Luxury Cars

Fun to drive, well-appointed and a satisfying sense of exclusivity.

Average price: $39,000.


Pickup Trucks

An increasing focus on fuel-efficiency and creature comforts is broadening the appeal of pickup trucks.

Average price: $41,000

What is interesting is the slight overlap in favor of the pickup truck over the small lux cars.

Personally think true luxury buys start some place around a 550 which at least sells for more than most but not all the available pickup trucks.
 
#375 · (Edited)
You know it was posted.. No car enthusiasts get their reviews from Forbes. Pretty pathetic that's all you can point to. Looks like you missed the excellent reviews from Kelly, Edmunds,Car.com.Autoblog and others. In case you missed it Q50 reliability was exact same rating as the 328 from CR.

By the way consumer reports not too hot on the weakling diesel sounding 320:
Less is less as far as I am concerned. Still a stripper entry level 4 banger economy car. Joke of the BMW linup

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...e-up-with-the-less-is-more-argument/index.htm
 
#379 · (Edited)
The whole bottom end of the luxury manufactures product lines is making thing very interesting in the $25/35K price range. Average price of a new car in the US is $33K. You now have stripped Lux brand cars competing against all up economy brands. Its a real badge vs content contest.

Bob Lutz said in one of his editorials based on content below $80K the line between luxury brands & everyday brand gets very blurry. He attributes is to basically robot built cars & very inexpensive but very advanced electronics in todays cars.

Am looking at a sub $30K Mazda CX-5 AWD 184HP Cute Ute for my granddaughter & the electronics package is way above that in my $60K+ MSRP 435 with the tech package. Even the 348hp Genesis R-Spec Coupe we got for my grandson, another sub $30K car, has some nice std equipment like a mechanical Torsen LSD on 19" alloys with summer tires.
 
#382 · (Edited)
Think the difference is BMW like Audi & Mercedes is a lux brand that also sells premium & not so premium cars. They move enough different products in the $80/100K & up class to qualify. Even in Europe the car plan we had for our employees considered the 3 German brands as luxury items & were restricted to no lower than junior management personal.

Chevy, Dodge, Ford are true mass market brands that each have a one off high end halo car.

Also think brands like Ferrari, Lamborghini etc have moved well past simple luxury are exclusive makers of supercars even if a few are less super than a StingRay or Viper.
 
#383 ·
I think the rush downmarket has hurt the premium image of the German brands. Ever since Lexus introduced the LS400 in 1990, the Japanese have put pressure on the big 3 Benz/BMW/Audi. They need to compete in the entry level luxury market.
Cars such as the BMW 1 series & especially the CLA have diluted their upmarket status. Not only in quality, but ever increasing units sold hurt their exclusive standing. Reason Ferrari controls output so carefully.
Management has stated demand continually exceeds what they wish to produce. That is the way to keep a brand truly exclusive.
 
#384 ·
Agree. Think Lamborghini does about 3,000 cars a year. That said companies like Aston Martin are publicly pushing to increase their output. Lots of money out there in 1% land to pluck with nice cars.

Lots of high end cars showing up in the Triangle. The guy who owns the restaurant we get take out Pizza from just got a Huracan
 
#389 ·
Very true. But I would argue that if Rolex decided to add a cut rate $999 model ( say outsourced to China for Mfg as Benz does with the CLA in Hungary) it would hurt the brand.
Also saying something is a luxury item does not necessarily equate to it being a high quality product. That junk CLA is a good example as are Lincolns.
 
#391 ·
The problem with the q50 is not only the bad reliability scores but the terrible customer satisfaction scores. Their are many luxury brand cars that have Terrible reliability and high customer satisfaction scores (model s is an example). What worse for Infiniti is that 2nd best selling vehicle the qx60 also has terrible reliability and low customer satisfaction scores. Most Lexus have good reliability and High customer satisfaction scores. Land vehicle Vehicle Car Luxury vehicle Personal luxury car
Text Font Document Paper
 
#394 · (Edited)
The problem with the q50 is not only the bad reliability scores but the terrible customer satisfaction scores. Their are many luxury brand cars that have Terrible reliability and high customer satisfaction scores (model s is an example). What worse for Infiniti is that 2nd best selling vehicle the qx60 also has terrible reliability and low customer satisfaction scores. Most Lexus have good reliability and High customer satisfaction scores. View attachment 564299 View attachment 564300
Believe you are looking at the 2014 data, slow/glitchy infotainment had alot to do with the low score. was upgraded for '15. If you read the previous posts here you will see the 2015 Q50 has average reliability from CR which happens to be the exact same rating as the BMW 3 series. I will say my Q50 is now 4 months old. Perfect in every way. No issues of any kind. Superb fit & finish. dual screen system really a nice idea.. It's a rocket. Can't get the wife out of it. Would pass the JD Power initial quality survey with flying colors.

QX 60 is a different story as it is not Japanese built, made in the USA. I don't expect it scores to improve. This is not a fluke. One of the 20 most unreliable cars for 2015 is the Benz C300 which so happens to now be made in the USA.

And the 3 series has it issues as well. From recalls to the worst headlights on a car sold in North America. You can try to trash the Q, but it makes the equally priced 320 look like a under equipped 90lb weakling.
 
#397 ·
Bet it was the 4 cyl version Infiniti now has for the Q50. Not likely the V6 for that lease price.
No thanks, it sucks.
 
#411 ·
Will be a really cold day in hell when I buy a BMW made in communist China.
 
#418 ·
Fair enough - I assume Jumbo jets are also off topic for a car forum.
 
#447 · (Edited)
Bob Lutz is correct when he says there is not much to differentiate mass market luxury cars from cars at the average US price of about $34K. All the little things that were once lux only items are now available in just about any car you might want to buy.

I have yet to be able to get cooled seats in my 1/3/4 series BMW's but I have them in my now aging FORD SUV. The Gensis R-Spec coupe we got for my grandson has more horsepower & electronic goodies than my 435 which was in the low $60K class. The R-Spec was under $28K. It also has better port seats.

My Granddaughters new low $30K Mazda CX-5GT AWD has about 7CUFT more cargo space than an X1 & a lot more electronic goodies, leather seats ect. It also has a fully integrated Laser & radar package to help prevent rear end collisions. Spread is about $11K OTD To get them up to somewhat equivalent options. This includes options that X1 does not even offer.

Think you now need to get up around $85K to start to separate cars into Luxury vs Premium or whatever you want to call the $50/60K cars. Its not that you can't get all the good stuff in a less expensive model its just that over $85K (arbitrary number by me) that you start to meet the definition of luxury.

Simple Definition of luxury. : a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth. : something that is expensive and not necessary.

The state of great comfort and extravagant living, opulence, luxuriousness, sumptuousness, grandeur, magnificence, splendor, lavishness,
 
#451 ·
Yup they have joined the 4 banger club. But just as I would stay away from the gimmicky active steering, easy to stay away from the 4 cyl. The 3.0L turbo V6 is only 2 grand more - Premium to Premium. No brainer.
 
#452 ·
Q50 cpo

Any constructive comments on looking for a CPO Q50 ?

Two years ago, the sales person could not explain all of the electronics, because it was so confusing.

However, the thing had a REAL SPARE TIRE [gasp] and looked pretty nice, overall. V6, too.

With all of the slams on it, may be a bargain ...

Constructive comments [please] welcome.

Thanks !

Don

P.S. I said "please" ... so knock it off, all Jag-Offs. :)
 
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