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BMW 320i: Ultimate Ripoff Machine

54K views 870 replies 101 participants last post by  VitaminHan 
#1 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
 
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#54 ·
Gentlemen- don't let the troll win. I'd bet $5 he was part of some social marketing scheme run by Honda to plant negatives on the forums for people who are looking to buy a 320 to find. The irony is that the V6 accord likely steals more buyers from their own luxury brand (acura) than from BMW. Some are looking for external validation, but most of us are here because we know the gestalt of a BMW is greater than the sum of its parts.
 
#62 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
I do understand the argument that you are trying to make, my parents and I did look at a V6 Accord as a potential candidate for our next car, and yes while it is tempting with all those standard features and the power, the driving dynamics of the Accord, though good for what it is, just can not be matched when compared to at least in this case a 3 series.

Honestly I think that you are being too harsh on the 320i.
I myself am not in the market for one but it would be wrong for me to just dismiss the 320i just because it looses in a comparison to an Accord.

Give it a try! From the reviews and people here on this post have said, it's actually a fun car (though I haven't driven one myself or any F30 for that matter)
 
#63 ·
I think accord owners are pretty happy, and there's a healthy enthusiast community particularly around the v6s. I've had several Hondas (2 currently) and they're great at what I want them to do - be uneventful and haul people. Several cars ago I had a honda with a 5MT and it was really a great gearbox + smooth clutch.

The only reason the 320i is sold in the U.S. is to sell down market. I guarantee at bmw USA somewhere there's a PowerPoint mapping the 320i to lower income buyers. One segment is early career upwardly mobile buyers starting out with the brand, the other is mid-late career buyers who can barely scratch their way into the brand.

There are definitely enthusiasts who have a nuanced perspective and see the 320i as a steal, but I can't imagine they're more than a blip in bmw's math.
 
#65 ·
I guarantee at bmw USA somewhere there's a PowerPoint mapping the 320i to lower income buyers. One segment is early career upwardly mobile buyers starting out with the brand, the other is mid-late career buyers who can barely scratch their way into the brand.

There are definitely enthusiasts who have a nuanced perspective and see the 320i as a steal, but I can't imagine they're more than a blip in bmw's math.
So the thinking is I want an M3, but I can't afford it, so I'll settle on a 340. Well, I can't afford a 340 either, so a 330 will do. Oh drat! I can't afford the :mad: 330. Okay, I'll just get this 320 thingy and debadge it, so that nobody will know the difference. Woo hoo! I'm a high roller. :bling:

Well, at least I'll know what people think of me if I decide to pick up a 320 in my next round of cars. :yikes:
 
#69 ·
We had a 2015 320. Special ordered standard shift. We had to wait 2 months for it. It got recalled and destroyed. They replaced the car with a 335. Standard shift as well. I am very worried that we will not be able to replace the 335 with ano there standard car.

We did test drive a automatic 320. Didn't really like it. When we got the standard car we ordered it came alive. Still didn't like the 4 cylinder under the hood.
Loving the turbo straight 6.
 
#74 ·
This thread has gotten entertaining, if not ridiculous. A Honda Accord, like our recently kicked to the curb Volvo, is a "nice car" with leather seats and a smooth ride. As far as generating any emotion? Not likely. But if driving emotion doesn't matter to you, and/or you don't have the funds, get the Honda. I'll take my 340i. Yes, the 320i with the turbo inline-6 dropped in it :rolleyes:
 
#76 ·
The Honda Accord could be considered a ripoff compared to a low mileage 2010 Saab 9-3. Saabs are so cheap now due to low resale value. On the other hand, their handling is good.
 
#77 · (Edited)
Apologies as I'm a day late to this discussion. And I apologize in advance for beating a dead horse--these forums give everyone a voice, even me...

One month ago, I traded my 2008 Acura TSX in on a 2016 3 series(with x-drive) . I went looking at BMW after driving a friends 3 series. Honestly, I've always thought BMW had a bad reputation for maintenance, which is why I avoided them (and stuck with Honda) but my buddy's 328 was just too much fun to drive, so I decided to take the chance. I went looking for a used CPO 328. Drove one, loved it. Then I spotted a Mediterranean Blue F30 on the back of the lot. It was beautiful. It was a program car, had 3400 miles on it. Had Sat-Nav, XM, heated power seats, sunroof. Only one problem. It was a 320i. Asking $34,000 (I got 'em down a bit later). I decided to drive it just to compare the 320 to the 328. Didn't expect to like it. Let me say I had just as much fun driving it as I did the 328. Certainly not as fast and a tad looser, but LIGHT YEARS ahead of my TSX in terms of "smile-factor". 50/50 weight distribution? I'm a believer now. The car is SOLID in the corners, and if the 320 is at the low end of the BMW handling spectrum, I can only imagine how a 335 or better must drive. In fact, I answered that question when given a 428(?) GC? with the sports package (pardon me if I'm getting the nomenclature wrong here) as a service loaner (they had to download the XM software). HOLY ****. It was like driving a wild animal. BUT, I would never buy one--I felt like I was fighting to keep the car under control and given that I rarely get over 60 mph on my driving around the city, way too impractical. And the Red Leather made the inside feel like a Vegas hotel room. But some people like this. I like simple, black sensa-tec. I'll buy it on future models as long as it's offered.

And contrary to some, buying a 320 does not make you some "badge-grabber" that says "I made it! Yay for me!" F--k your badge. And f--k your little buyers click. (pardon the explitives) You're the badge grabber. I guarantee you there are jokers rolling around in 328s (or higher ) that they bought based purely on HP or BMW badge alone and can't get it up when they need to or have to (I'm referring to the car here) and put it through it's paces.

I think it is marketed as a hook and bait car. They try to get buyers (probably like me) in at a lower price point and then give out 335s and 428s as service loaners, Smart thinking.... I agree, on paper the 320i looks like a terrible choice. It does handle like a dream and I love driving it. I've been taking the scenic route lately. But it is lacking, but I'm perfectly happy for now. If I can't be happy driving a $34,000 Ultimate Driving Machine then I probably shouldn't be driving a $50,000 ultimate driving machine.

The point to my ramblings is this: Buy the car you want to buy and have fun. I wanted a fun car to drive that had a few must haves options. I got that. Yes, I wanted a BMW. I got that. Yes, BMW has the most insanely jacked-up price offerings of options I've ever seen ($34K and I'm stuck with **** halogen headlamps, but hey my door handles light up?!?! Standard?! WTF?!?) But the car is a blast to drive. That's what I paid for. If you want fancy options buy an accord v-6. Or an Acura TLX. It's more HP, more standard options AND It's a lot less money too, but YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN.....I'll wake you up when your drive is over. Better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

Back to the OP point. The 320i is a terrible choice on paper. But there's something alluring about it and enjoyable about driving it. AND there is a sweet spot in options vs price that makes it worth exploring. Like I said, if it's this much fun, then HOLY COW what does the future hold? Remember, You're the one writing the check, so do what your gut tells you and what helps you sleep at night. The world's full of people with nicer things that still aren't nice enough.

Apologies again if I offended anyone, but was trying to drive my point home. Safe driving!

(PS: my 320i has 3.5 +1 =4.5 years of warranty which helps me sleep a little better. I'm really hoping BMW can win me over in the quality department. So far, so good...)
(PPS: It's worth $199 to drop in a BMS JB+ and gain the extra 25HP/30ft-lb torque from the N20 motor. Livens the car up a lot, and is totally within safety limits on the engine. And read the posts about headlight aiming. My halogens are actually pretty freaking good now that they are aimed correctly. They aren't xenons, but they aren't bad. See my other post about this)
 
#80 ·
Totally! I would not buy a loaded 320 new, but lots of people lease them, and then you can get them as a CPO for a reasonable price once they have moved on. That's really where the 320 makes sense- it's a hell of a better car in the 20k to 25k CPO used market than any accord you can buy new for that price. Only drawback is you can likely find a CPO 328 for just a bit more, but its still a reasonable choice. I really liked the one I drove a few months ago when I bought my x1. Strongly considered buying it too, but I've always liked the E84 x1 and figured it was my last chance.

In your case, getting a more loaded model as a service loaner makes a lot of sense too since you don't give up much in terms of lifetime miles but you get a good discount on the price.

Apologies as I'm a day late to this discussion. And I apologize in advance for beating a dead horse--these forums give everyone a voice, even me...

One month ago, I traded my 2008 Acura TSX in on a 2016 3 series(with x-drive) . I went looking at BMW after driving a friends 3 series. Honestly, I've always thought BMW had a bad reputation for maintenance, which is why I avoided them (and stuck with Honda) but my buddy's 328 was just too much fun to drive, so I decided to take the chance. I went looking for a used CPO 328. Drove one, loved it. Then I spotted a Mediterranean Blue F30 on the back of the lot. It was beautiful. It was a program car, had 3400 miles on it. Had Sat-Nav, XM, heated power seats, sunroof. Only one problem. It was a 320i. Asking $34,000 (I got 'em down a bit later). I decided to drive it just to compare the 320 to the 328. Didn't expect to like it. Let me say I had just as much fun driving it as I did the 328. Certainly not as fast and a tad looser, but LIGHT YEARS ahead of my TSX in terms of "smile-factor". 50/50 weight distribution? I'm a believer now. The car is SOLID in the corners, and if the 320 is at the low end of the BMW handling spectrum, I can only imagine how a 335 or better must drive. In fact, I answered that question when given a 428(?) GC? with the sports package (pardon me if I'm getting the nomenclature wrong here) as a service loaner (they had to download the XM software). HOLY ****. It was like driving a wild animal. BUT, I would never buy one--I felt like I was fighting to keep the car under control and given that I rarely get over 60 mph on my driving around the city, way too impractical. And the Red Leather made the inside feel like a Vegas hotel room. But some people like this. I like simple, black sensa-tec. I'll buy it on future models as long as it's offered.

And contrary to some, buying a 320 does not make you some "badge-grabber" that says "I made it! Yay for me!" F--k your badge. And f--k your little buyers click. (pardon the explitives) You're the badge grabber. I guarantee you there are jokers rolling around in 328s (or higher ) that they bought based purely on HP or BMW badge alone and can't get it up when they need to or have to (I'm referring to the car here) and put it through it's paces.

I think it is marketed as a hook and bait car. They try to get buyers (probably like me) in at a lower price point and then give out 335s and 428s as service loaners, Smart thinking.... I agree, on paper the 320i looks like a terrible choice. It does handle like a dream and I love driving it. I've been taking the scenic route lately. But it is lacking, but I'm perfectly happy for now. If I can't be happy driving a $34,000 Ultimate Driving Machine then I probably shouldn't be driving a $50,000 ultimate driving machine.

The point to my ramblings is this: Buy the car you want to buy and have fun. I wanted a fun car to drive that had a few must haves options. I got that. Yes, I wanted a BMW. I got that. Yes, BMW has the most insanely jacked-up price offerings of options I've ever seen ($34K and I'm stuck with **** halogen headlamps, but hey my door handles light up?!?! Standard?! WTF?!?) But the car is a blast to drive. That's what I paid for. If you want fancy options buy an accord v-6. Or an Acura TLX. It's more HP, more standard options AND It's a lot less money too, but YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN.....I'll wake you up when your drive is over. Better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

Back to the OP point. The 320i is a terrible choice on paper. But there's something alluring about it and enjoyable about driving it. AND there is a sweet spot in options vs price that makes it worth exploring. Like I said, if it's this much fun, then HOLY COW what does the future hold? Remember, You're the one writing the check, so do what your gut tells you and what helps you sleep at night. The world's full of people with nicer things that still aren't nice enough.

Apologies again if I offended anyone, but was trying to drive my point home. Safe driving!

(PS: my 320i has 3.5 +1 =4.5 years of warranty which helps me sleep a little better. I'm really hoping BMW can win me over in the quality department. So far, so good...)
(PPS: It's worth $199 to drop in a BMS JB+ and gain the extra 25HP/30ft-lb torque from the N20 motor. Livens the car up a lot, and is totally within safety limits on the engine. And read the posts about headlight aiming. My halogens are actually pretty freaking good now that they are aimed correctly. They aren't xenons, but they aren't bad. See my other post about this)
 
#85 ·
If I am going to pay premium prices, I want a car that doesn't have an economy variant aka, a Lexus that looks and drives like a top trim camry. BMW makes luxury cars, at least, thats what they ship to this country, I suppose the 320 excluded to some degree but anyway - premium cars. Acura just seems like a Honda to me and I would just buy an Accord GT V6 before I bought an Acura with that ugly ass grill.
 
#86 · (Edited)
This entire conversation must seem hilarious to Europeans who see the 316i and 318i available there. The 320i is a midlevel car, and honestly, it's just 328i with less boost and has a limited subset of options in the US market so that BMW can compete with the CLA/A3 crowd without actually having to build a different car, and also to more easily upsell the 328i which has higher profit margins.

I'm not sure that there's any actual prestige associated with the badge difference other than on forums. It's just a 3-series, they sell like 350k of these per year. You get more enthusiast cred out of a GTI or WRX these days.
 
#88 ·
I think Mattschneider made some good points. There are many reasons that we purchased a particular vehicle and it is definitely not one size fits all. One buyer wants speed; another handling; a third a phev; a fourth low cost; a small car; a large car, an SUV, etc. So car companies need to make lots of different variants. Buying the basic entry model does not automatically make one a "badge-grabber" nor does buying a V-8 Camaro make one a highway cowboy. One could be purchasing for the cache but there can be many other reasons as well.

I have wandered around the web and tried "building" cars and from what I can see BMW is typical of most car companies. Take a vehicle at base price and option it up and the options typically add 50% to the base cost. I tried MB and even some non luxury brands and that seems to be a consistent pattern.

I needed a phev that would continue to keep me in the HOV lane (grandfathered from my previous Priuses) and something with more mid level power/torque than my Prius had but still relatively small (I like a small, maneuverable car). At the time I purchased it was BMW 330e, Audi A3 E-Tron, or very large and expensive luxury cars like Porsche Cayenne, MB S550, etc. So to me the BMW was an easy choice. The new Hyundai might have been tempting but it is not out yet and it is too large (full size) for my taste (If BMW made a phev in the 2 series I would have preferred it). The MB C350e would have been very competitive but it is not yet being sold in the US and hasn't, at least as of yet, been certified as a qualified phev for HOV purposes in Arizona. In addition, I was not willing to purchase a VW product at this time (yes...keeping the air clean is a goal for me and I see no real remorse coming from VW). So in my case that meant a 330e. But my reasons had nothing to do with the badge and the reasons that make a person purchase a 320i might also have nothing to do with the badge.

In the US the 320i can be an attractive choice right now because it is the only BMW still using the N20 engine which as noted by the poster can be inexpensively tuned to deliver some extra horsepower. The rest of the 3 series uses the newer B46/B48 engine for the four bangers. Spending a little money then brings the 320i much closer in performance to a 328i.
 
#98 ·
What do you mean "those people"?

Der_Kommisar, you hit the nail on the head. I like my rattly 4-banging 320 even more now just cause it obviously pisses guys (like Marie Antoinette here) off that he has to share his Badge awareness with me! Is3c6: Don't forget to throw me some cake!!
those people as in those people that are considering a 320i, cake? are 320i guys also a bit IQ challenged?
 
#114 ·
If you've pissed off JJ, you've probably crossed a line.

Jive, I don't see how asking the guy to post a picture of his car, in part to establish his credibility that's been called reasonably into question, amounts to a witch hunt. Recall, he posted here. Want to see what a real witch hunt looks like? See what the Trump administration did with respect to asking the Department of Energy for the names of scientists associated with climate change.
 
#115 · (Edited)
If you've pissed off JJ, you've probably crossed a line.

Jive, I don't see how asking the guy to post a picture of his car, in part to establish his credibility that's been called reasonably into question, amounts to a witch hunt. Recall, he posted here. Want to see what a real witch hunt looks like? See what the Trump administration did with respect to asking the Department of Energy for the names of scientists associated with climate change.
Let's not turn this into a political debate. That's not what any of us are on this forum for. Don't we have enough material to flame each other for already?

:grouphug:
 
#125 · (Edited)
Too many people to quote, I'll try my best to answer everyone on this post!

As many of you have said, I totally agree that using the word "ripoff" was the wrong choice of word. My intention was not to come off as "look at you tiny 320i buyers muhahaha"
I also learned the hard way its hard to translate the tone you are trying to convey as text, though maybe I'm just a bad writer (I'm not an english major :rofl:)

I completely understand why I may seem to be a troll, as you guys have pointed out "owns 5 series, bashes 3 series as first post." Looking back at it now, what the hell was I thinking. I should have made my debut with the 5er forum, the car that I own, then post my feelings about this car later on. I probably joined in the worst way possible***8230;..::cry:


I don't know why but I've always had this opinion about the 320i, and it seems like anyone who as a negative opinion about the car (underpowered ,overpriced) always gets bashed here. I guess I'm here to stand up for them..

Honestly, I wish I had a time machine to go back in time to fix all of this.. maybe a better way to put all of this was if I had said that the 330i needs to go down in price and the 320i shouldn't be sold anymore.

Also sorry if I had offended anyone, this was not my intention :eek:




P..S. Many of you had good arguments against the 5er, tbh I've had buyers remorse since the day I've bought it (should have went for the A6)

P.P.S If you guys really wanted to see my 5er maybe I'll post a few pics :thumbup:

P.P.P.S Is there a time machine that exists? :eek:
 
#127 ·
Too many people to quote, I'll try my best to answer everyone on this post!

As many of you have said, I totally agree that using the word "ripoff" was the wrong choice of word. My intention was not to come off as "look at you tiny 320i buyers muhahaha"
I also learned the hard way its hard to translate the tone you are trying to convey as text, though maybe I'm just a bad writer (I'm not an english major :rofl:)

I completely understand why I may seem to be a troll, as you guys have pointed out "owns 5 series, bashes 3 series as first post." Looking back at it now, what the hell was I thinking. I should have made my debut with the 5er forum, the car that I own, then post my feelings about his car later on. I probably joined in the worst way possible…..::cry:

I don't know why but I've always had this opinion about the 320i, and it seems like anyone who as a negative opinion about the car (underpowered ,overpriced) always gets bashed here. I guess I'm here to stand up for them..

Honestly, I wish I had a time machine to go back in time to fix all of this.. maybe a better way to put all of this was if I had said that the 330i needs to go down in price and the 320i shouldn't be sold anymore.

Also sorry if I had offended anyone, this was not my intention :eek:

P..S. Many of you had good argument against the 5er, tbh I've had buyers remorse since the day I've bought it (should have went for the A6)

P.P.S If you guys really wanted to see my 5er maybe I'll post a few pics :thumbup:

P.P.P.S Is there a time machine that exists? :eek:
I will say thank you to you for this post. I realize its the internet and no thanks or apologies are needed, but I will say it anyway "thank you".

Now, with that out of the way,

I DO agree that BMW should offer a little more standard, across their lineup (not just the 320, but the 340 or 435/440 dont even come standard with a backup camera!) They get away with this because they can (in the name of "buyer options!")

This is a BMW issue, not a 320 issue. Like I also said, the 320 is not the right car for everyone (it certainly is not the right car for me, as the way you need to equip it for it to make sense is not the BMW "I" want).

Its super hard to convey tone in written word, I agree.. you can only go with someone's choice of words. THIS particular topic has been done here to death so many times, it is an extremely sore spot. I feel the 320 has an absolute right to exist, even though its not for ME. Its right for someone though, and thats ok.
 
#136 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
My opinion...I bought a BMW over a Honda because it's what I wanted regardless of everything out there.
 
#140 ·
An Accord is a Rebadged Toyota.



Oh, wait. That's Lexus.



Never Mind!
 
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