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BMW 320i: Ultimate Ripoff Machine

54K views 870 replies 101 participants last post by  VitaminHan 
#1 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
 
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#147 ·
You can have your loaded Hyundai, I'll take the 320i with ZSP and ZLP.

Side note, 328i and 330i are the biggest ripoff in the F3X lineup. It's for the badge whores who are insecure.
How so? And don't you have a 328? Are you, therefore, a "badge whore and insecure?"
 
#159 ·
I decided on a 340i. Still processing all this trying to figure out what that tells me about myself. My previous ride (GTI) made me a overgrown millennial....or something. I may have overcompensated :dunno:
 
#163 ·
Hmm, I wonder what an M6 drive would think about all of this... oh wait, never mind. :roll eyes:
 
#174 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
So why are you posting on a BMW forum in the first place?, enjoy your Honda, different strokes for different folks, I have owned a few of both, price is not whats its all about
 
#176 · (Edited)
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
Or you could wait and get the higher end model? I think you're missing the point. The 320 is that 'first' BMW sedan for that 20 something that wants the brand without breaking the bank. Sure there are other brands out there that offer more on paper, some people want to get into a BMW. You bring up compelling points, but I don't think your priorities reflect the primary demographics' that BMW is selling these to.

Should I have gotten a hellcat? F--- NO!
 
#181 ·
Or you could wait and get the higher end model? I think you're missing the point. The 320 is that 'first' BMW sedan for that 20 something that wants the brand without breaking the bank. Sure there are other brands out there that offer more on paper, some people want to get into a BMW. You bring up compelling points, but I don't think your priorities reflect the primary demographics' that BMW is selling these to.

Should I have gotten a hellcat? F--- NO!
This is a valid point. I can't argue against that.

So all this angst must be why Europeans debadge so often, and would never bring the 523i (5 series with the N20) to the states. That and the fact where I live 320i's start at 45 plus and 340is go for 70 plus. All this whinning about costs is grating especial when in the states you practically get the cheapest prices on these cars in the world. Enjoy your incredible discount.
This is why I stated the US market. I understand that in many other countries there are smaller engines available (ex 318i) because of various taxes and such.

In these cases there are similar cars offered such as the MB C200/C180 and the Audi A4 1.4 so I can see why the 320i is sold in those markets. However both of those cars (C200, A4 1.4) are not sold in the U.S.. To me it makes little sense as to why the 320i is still available for sale in the US.

To the typical German, it's an embarrassment to flaunt a high-end car, so they debadge or more correctly order their car without badges. To the typical American, the badge is everything and for some the Roundel is the only badge they need, while others rebadge their cars to display a higher model designation. The latter may be the solution for any 320 owner who is uncomfortable with the piercing glare of a "BMW worthy" 328 owner. Although, there's no need to go all the way up to an M3 badge, three pieces of chrome-like plastic that include the numbers 3, 2, and 8 will be sufficient. ;)

P.S. In the dunderhi household, my M6 is debadged and her 328dxt has it's original allocation of tinsel. Mrs Dunderhi doesn't think it's worth $15 to replace her badges at lease turn-in, so her car stays adorned.
Both are absolutely gorgeous! Nice choice of color on both :thumbup:
I bet you that the 328d wagon is more of a "unicorn" than the M6 here in the states :rofl:

As for debadging, I think it must be a pretty cool feeling that to the average person it's just another "hot rod BMW" little do they know what a beast it actually is!

Maybe you should consider rebadging the M6 with a 640i badge :rofl:
 
#177 ·
explode

So all this angst must be why Europeans debadge so often, and would never bring the 523i (5 series with the N20) to the states. That and the fact where I live 320i's start at 45 plus and 340is go for 70 plus. All this whinning about costs is grating especial when in the states you practically get the cheapest prices on these cars in the world. Enjoy your incredible discount.
 
#178 ·
So all this angst must be why Europeans debadge so often, and would never bring the 523i (5 series with the N20) to the states. That and the fact where I live 320i's start at 45 plus and 340is go for 70 plus. All this whinning about costs is grating especial when in the states you practically get the cheapest prices on these cars in the world. Enjoy your incredible discount.
To the typical German, it's an embarrassment to flaunt a high-end car, so they debadge or more correctly order their car without badges. To the typical American, the badge is everything and for some the Roundel is the only badge they need, while others rebadge their cars to display a higher model designation. The latter may be the solution for any 320 owner who is uncomfortable with the piercing glare of a "BMW worthy" 328 owner. Although, there's no need to go all the way up to an M3 badge, three pieces of chrome-like plastic that include the numbers 3, 2, and 8 will be sufficient. ;)

P.S. In the dunderhi household, my M6 is debadged and her 328dxt has it's original allocation of tinsel. Mrs Dunderhi doesn't think it's worth $15 to replace her badges at lease turn-in, so her car stays adorned.
 
#180 ·
After being pro-320 for most of this thread, I will say that I'm less supportive of the 320 xDrive model and would be very unlikely to ever own one. I think the extra weight and complexity adds little to the driving experience - even diminishes it in terms of speed, suspension, & MPG- such that the model is more likely to appeal just to badge snobs. Plus, you're pretty close to a 328 RWD at that price point, which is a better car all around. I get why you need to sell them in the northern half of the states, however, and in many parts of the world. Most of the 320 lease return CPOs I see around here are xDrive w/ premium, and admittedly, those are likely not being sold to enthusiasts. But me, personally? I'd rather have a 320 RWD w/sport, premium, & Drivers Assistance than a 4 or 6 cyl base TLX, but I would not buy the 320 new. I'm happy to let others take the first three years of depreciation for me.
 
#187 ·
I live in Germany [emoji629] for now. Previous poster is right. Most Audis/BMWs/Mercs are debadged.

As far as demographics, it's not that hard to read a few articles and determine BMWs target demographics across their model line.

Now I'm off to "get over" myself.

#triggered [emoji23][emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#194 · (Edited)
I've driven the 320i with the sport package and I thought it was a fantastic and fun car to drive. The interior was still nice with the black seats and M sport steering wheel. It for sure felt faster than my e90 328i and returned great fuel mileage. You still get the basic iDrive as well which comes with bluetooth audio now as standard. It was a smart move on BMWs part to bring over the 320i instead of bringing over a lower end model like Benz did with the CLA.
 
#195 · (Edited)
It for sure felt faster than my e90 328i .
really?? how is that possible? I mean maybe the torque, sort of but there is still a little turbo lag with the n20 and the e90 is a 6 sec flat car whereas the 320 takes another second on a good day. (sorry Car and Driver, not buying the 6.5 seconds.) I was in the mid 6 range after stage 1.
 
#203 · (Edited)
I think it***8217;s safe to say that this thread has gone long enough, we***8217;ve all made our points and at this point we would just be going on forever.


Here are my final opinions,

BMW 320i, do I still think that it should go down in price? Yes, (ex. no power seats, lacking some features as standard). Though satisfactory for most buyers I believe that it is a bit underpowered (20hp/20ft-lbs increase would be good) Lastly, I believe that the 320i should be discontinued in the United States, theres no C180/C200 or A4 1.4 to compete with here.

However, calling this a "ripoff" was too extreme. As people here have mentioned, we all have different budgets and needs for a vehicle and the 320i checks a lot of boxes (RWD, available manual, 4 doors, great chassis) Sure, there are other cars that on paper seem like a better value ***8212;in this case the Accord***8212;however, something that statistics on paper don***8217;t show is the ***8220;smile factor***8221; and this is what makes the BMW the ***8220;Ultimate Driving Machine***8221;. For what it is, the 320i is still an enjoyable package. If we had all looked at numbers and stats, we all would be driving loaded V6 Accords.

This ***8220;smile factor***8221; was what I was forgetting, sure the Golf R or something akin could bring a similar joy but if one had found the 320i to be the most fun out of all, who am I to judge? Why drive a car that on paper is better when the other is giving them a bigger smile?
As long as one is satisfied with their car, that should be all that matters.


I thank everyone for contributing to this thread! All of you have given me a different perspective on the 320i and in life :rofl:
Also special thanks for the mods for not immediately locking this thread, I now know this 320i ***8220;bashing***8221; gets brought up a lot.

Let***8217;s make this the final 320i ***8220;bashing***8221; thread. Anyone who starts a similar is just asking for trouble.


Again, Thanks everyone!
-Schmetterling
 
#204 ·
I think it's safe to say that this thread has gone long enough, we've all made our points and at this point we would just be going on forever.

Here are my final opinions,

BMW 320i, do I still think that it should go down in price? Yes, (ex. no power seats, lacking some features as standard). Though satisfactory for most buyers I believe that it is a bit underpowered (20hp/20ft-lbs increase would be good) Lastly, I believe that the 320i should be discontinued in the United States, theres no C180/C200 or A4 1.4 to compete with here.

However, calling this a "ripoff" was too extreme. As people here have mentioned, we all have different budgets and needs for a vehicle and the 320i checks a lot of boxes (RWD, available manual, 4 doors, great chassis) Sure, there are other cars that on paper seem like a better value -in this case the Accord-however, something that statistics on paper don't show is the "smile factor" and this is what makes the BMW the "Ultimate Driving Machine". For what it is, the 320i is still an enjoyable package. If we had all looked at numbers and stats, we all would be driving loaded V6 Accords.

This "smile factor" was what I was forgetting, sure the Golf R or something akin could bring a similar joy but if one had found the 320i to be the most fun out of all, who am I to judge? Why drive a car that on paper is better when the other is giving them a bigger smile?
As long as one is satisfied with their car, that should be all that matters.

I thank everyone for contributing to this thread! All of you have given me a different perspective on the 320i and in life :rofl:
Also special thanks for the mods for not immediately locking this thread, I now know this 320i "bashing" gets brought up a lot.

Let's make this the final 320i "bashing" thread. Anyone who starts a similar is just asking for trouble.

Again, Thanks everyone!
-Schmetterling
:bustingup Dude, you need like 10,000 more posts before you can self-declare a thread dead and have anyone take you seriously.

Anyway, I wish BMW would offer their entire line-up from the 114d to the 760xi with every coupe, sedan, wagon, SUV, diesel, gas, and Alpina Model without exception. No NAV, manual seats, no sunroof, cloth seats, it doesn't matter what any other BMW owner prefers, it would be great if we just had the entire line-up to choose from. I know the haters will continue to hate, but I would jump on the opportunity to own an Alpina D3 Touring. :drive:
 
#205 ·
Hahaha, the guy starts the thread and then makes some formal declaration that it is complete and advises against future anti-320 threads. And the Golf R comparison is just... no. The R blows the 320 away in basically every imaginable way.
 
#210 · (Edited)
If there are people who buy 320s, for whatever reason, then BMW should sell them. When it comes down to it, all you really need is a air conditioning and a radio. Yes, you can get an Accord V6 Touring for the same approximate money, and get more stuff. If you want the stuff, get the Accord, if you want a BMW, get the BMW. Just take a good look at what comes standard in the BMW that clearly outclasses the Accord. The transmission for one, and the suspension for another.

Having choices is not a bad thing.
 
#213 · (Edited)
If there are people who buy 320s, for whatever reason, then BMW should sell them. When it comes down to it, all you really need is a air conditioning and a radio. Yes, you can get an Accord V6 Touring for the same approximate money, and get more stuff. If you want the stuff, get the Accord, if you want a BMW, get the BMW. Just take a good look at what comes standard in the BMW that clearly outclasses the Accord. The transmission for one, and the suspension for another.

Having choices is not a bad thing.
This is such a key point that people seem to miss on what is supposedly a driving enthusiast forum. If you buy cars for infotainment and the newest touchscreen Siri based crap or whatever, what are you even doing here? And on top of that, you are on a BMW forum talking about 'value' of all things? hahaha. Value. Does that word resonate at all here?

Now don't get me wrong - I absolutely love the options on my car and honestly that was the deal breaker on the 320 for me is lack of options. I love the Nav in my car, love the extended display, love the parking assist, love the comfort access coded so that my mirrors fold in automatically when I touch-lock the car, all the little tech things like that; but the way the car drives is thing one. Suspension, ride, handling, transmission, engine. IF all of that wasn't in place and the tech stuff was, I would have zero interest in the car. The options and tech are a bonus. I don't care if an Accord costs $15000 brand new and will last for 500k miles on oil changes alone. It is a bland, boring front wheel drive appliance car with a CVT transmission. Pass

The transmission and suspension combo on even the 320 is superior to anything Honda has to offer currently.
 
#215 ·
Hey guys long time reader, first time posting!

Back to the thread, let me clear things up by saying I'm talking about the 320i in the U.S. market I just can not see myself paying the asking price for one of these

For $33,450 MSRP there's not a whole lot of car for the money, especially now that there are cars for less that come with more performance and features. I'll be comparing the 320i to the Honda Accord V6 touring which starts at $34,830

Why do I think that the 320i is not worth the asking price? Lets start with the lack of standard features.

- No nav ($1,950 option)
- No backup camera (included with drivers assistance package $950)
- No auto dimming mirrors (included with premium package $3,100)
- Power seats not standard?? (included with premium package $3,100)
- Halogen Headlights (LED headlights included with premium package $3,100, stand alone option for $700)

The Accord has all these as standard, if one adds all these features to the 320i you're looking at a price of $40,445

Alright fine "who cares about these useless features, I bought it because of how it drives not that useless junk"

320i Horsepower/ Torque = 180hp/200ft-lbs
320i 0-60 = 6.7 seconds (Motor Trend)

V6 Accord Horsepower/Torque = 278hp/258ft-lbs
V6 Accord 0-60 = 5.8 seconds (Car and Driver)

So the 320i is slower than the V6 Accord

"who cares about 0-60 and horsepower, the BMW is RWD like a true sports car"

but is RWD really worth the price this is asking? A basic 320i is fairly spartan and a decently equipped one costs as much as a base 330i. If one really wanted a RWD sports car for cheap what about a Miata? the Toyota/Subaru twins? Or what about the WRX? These will offer just as much fun for a lower price.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the 320i and am being too harsh on it, thoughts? Opinions?
Geez...I've seen this kind of post several times before. This comes across mostly as someone who is uncomfortable about having spent a lot more money on a higher end BMW. Trashing the entry level 320i apparently allows him to feel better about spending that much money. Strikes me as thin support. If you can identify the good points of your car may that increase the chances you will enjoy it for the long term.
 
#217 ·
I had to put up the Christmas tree in my church this morning. We had a lot of snow over night.
Road had some snow still. Care drove beautifully.

Coming home. Snow was gone and got to haul some A$$.

What a refined car. Live driving Ito every second I'm in it. It's my wife's car, so I don't drive it that much.
I have a porsche and love the Bimmer.
 
#218 ·
Suspension, ride, handling, transmission, engine. IF all of that wasn't in place and the tech stuff was, I would have zero interest in the car. The options and tech are a bonus. I don't care if an Accord costs $15000 brand new and will last for 500k miles on oil changes alone. It is a bland, boring front wheel drive appliance car with a CVT transmission. Pass

The transmission and suspension combo on even the 320 is superior to anything Honda has to offer currently.
Totally agree with this. My priorities for a car are rear drive and manual transmission. Having owned a few transaxle cars ( 944 and Alfa Romeo) I find these even more enjoyable to toss around. Oh and don't get me started on CVTs. The few Nissans I have had the misfortune of renting were downright unsafe with that rubber band transmission.
 
#219 ·
I read the opening post and several other posts and decided to put my 2 cents in and see if I get change back I have had too many cars to count but I can remember the best of them. My first car in 1968 was a 1963 Ford Galaxy 500XL convertible 390hp; 1963 Plymouth Savoy 436 max wedge head 550+hp that i street raced. the next notable car was a 1974 Cadillac Seville and lastly an all out 1984 Trans am. In 2003 I wanted to buy a convertible and at that time I had a friend that dealt in foreign sports cars. He convinced me to buy the only car I didn't want, a BMW only because I didn't want to be labeled a yuppy. I bought a 2001 330ci 20k miles Orient blue with matching ragtop (pretty). It is by far the best of the best of all my cars that I have owned dozens and dozens of cars. It is not the fastest, not the nor the one with the most accessories but it is build superior to all my other cars. It is so nice my wife and I still drive it. My wife and I recently went car shopping (the reason for my post is coming up). Someone in an earlier post mentioned something about buying a Mieta vs BMW. My wife wanted the new Mieta. If my wife want a Mieta she gets a Mieta. We went and test drove a Mietia. To me it was crap but ok; if that is what the wife wants. After the test drive the wife said it was nice but then said "lets go test a Mustang" (she is a former Mustang owner). To me not a bad car just not a BMW, wouldn't make my top 5 list of cars but if the wife wants a Mustang, she gets a Mustang. (in case your are guessing there are cars I would not let my wife buy). We didn't buy anything at that time. A week ago the subject came up as we drove to dinner in the BMW. My wife, not a real car person, discussed the test drive and said that she would rather have the 2001 BMW 330ci than either of the two cars we test drove. She said the BMW just felt so much better to drive than the two new cars we tested. That has to say something. She would rather drive a 16 year old BMW than a new Miata of Mustang. So I am happy to say, we are buying another BMW. My biggest complaint about the BMW is dealing with the dealer and the price they want to charge for repairs and don't know how to make a repair. An example: car odometer was stuck at 35k so I wanted to get it fixed. They quoted me $2k and wasn't sure that would fix the problem. I had someone fix the odometer for $350. Thanks
 
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