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X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)
First generation BMW X1 availbe as a X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i xDrive.

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Old 11-19-2018, 10:15 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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non-AGM battery

Hi guys, can I use a non-agm battery in my 2012 bmw x1? are there any pros and cons?

thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:18 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Sure, you can use any lead acid battery. For best service it must be properly registered with the ECU as the appropriate charging protocols are VERY different.

A flooded lead acid battery - that's the traditional kind - will vent acid fumes into your interior. If you get the car on its head then the battery will lose its acid. An FLA does not have the same AH capacity as an AGM of the same physical size. You will have to service the FLA battery to replace the water/ electrolyte boiled and gassed away.

So, why do you have a BMW?
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:05 AM
mreric mreric is offline
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Agm was used for a reason, bmw battery sits inside the car.
fumes from regular battery are toxic
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:08 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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I did notice autoparts stores saying the battery must be vented outside. It is unclear if that is something that the car already has, a venting tube, or you would need to install. I understand AGM is the better choice but I haven't liked the price difference. This is obviously the only reason I would consider a conventional battery.


I will have to look at my scan tool later as well. I remember there being an option for programming different amp-hour batteries to the car but don't recall if there was agm or non-agm settings.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
I understand AGM is the better choice but I haven't liked the price difference.
FWIW, you're not going to like a lot of the maintenance "price differences" with the BMW. It's not a Honda Civic. Not trying to be a jerk, just want to make sure you're prepared when a $3K bill hits you out of the blue from one day to another.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:40 PM
themishmosh themishmosh is offline
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The car has a vent tube for AGM batteries. There is no such thing for conventional batteries.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:27 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
Sure, you can use any lead acid battery. For best service it must be properly registered with the ECU as the appropriate charging protocols are VERY different.

A flooded lead acid battery - that's the traditional kind - will vent acid fumes into your interior. If you get the car on its head then the battery will lose its acid. An FLA does not have the same AH capacity as an AGM of the same physical size. You will have to service the FLA battery to replace the water/ electrolyte boiled and gassed away.

So, why do you have a BMW?
I got the BMW X1 because it was a good car for a good price. Now I am looking for a good battery for a good price. It's not a lot of money more to buy AGM type battery in the grand scheme of things but I was more concerned if it was really necessary or if it was as necessary as Pirelli run-flat tires which people will also say they put them there for a reason and don't deviate from the factory spec.
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
but I was more concerned if it was really necessary or if it was as necessary as Pirelli run-flat tires which people will also say they put them there for a reason and don't deviate from the factory spec.
Two different things there though. Tires, wiper blades, windshield washer fluid, those aren't "mechanical" items per se, and don't have anything to do with the mechanics of the vehicle and how it runs. Type of oil, battery, radiator, these are "mechanical" items. Changing to a different manufacture of tire is fine, as long as the size is the same. Likewise, you can change to a different brand of battery (you don't HAVE to buy the BMW genuine), but it should be the same type (AGM).
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:53 PM
wunderkind wunderkind is offline
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I met a BMW technician a while back and we chatted about maintenance. One area that he stressed was a good number of error codes from the sensors were due to crappy batteries. Alot of times, the error codes are easily dealt with with either replacing the poor performing battery or simply a good recharge. The battery is not just to start up a car. The AGM battery is used in these genre of cars are simply due to the high electrical draws by the car's computer system even at rest. Feel free to draw your own conclusion.
AGMs when well maintained lasts longer than lead batteries. A friend of mine put an AGM in his '96 miata back in 2000. Still going strong according to him.
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Old 11-21-2018, 05:04 PM
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All batteries last well when properly maintained. A properly built FLA can be disassembled, flushed, washed and reassembled for a whole new lease on life. An AGM is maintenance free and cannot be maintained. An AGM is robust only to proper use. It is otherwise fragile.

Submarine FLA batteries have changed little since WWII. Depending on which piece is essentially the battery, there may be some around dating from the war. A submarine battery's cells are refurbished every 55 cycles.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:49 PM
Chicone Chicone is offline
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Having driven my last car for 19 years I did not even know about AGM batteries until this year. Wanting to know more I read an interesting post on the Optima web site, IMO one of the best batteries you can get.

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-u...batteries-last

If says if you have start-stop feature turned on it affects the life. Also of course, climate affects life as well as other factors.

I used to plan on 5 year replacement, now Iím not sure. Looks like I can get away with 6-8 with AGM. I think Iíll invest in a good charger to top it up occasionally, I noticed the dealer did that when I took it in.

Steve

Last edited by Chicone; 11-21-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 11-22-2018, 05:44 AM
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Optima builds and sells batteries. Discount their marketing.

Battery Universityís CADEX does not sell batteries, but sells devices that can make batteries - of all sorts - last longer. ALL batteriesí maximum expected life time is about eight years, then internal corrosion reduces performance to End of Life criteria.

Here is their introductory page on AGM. With a bit of reading you may find the discussion of batteries life time.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/..._glass_mat_agm

OPTIMA spiral cells are more expensive to make and do not deliver particularly better performance of any sort. They are fragile in all the same ways as any AGM.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

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Old 11-23-2018, 10:24 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is online now
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Even Walmart has the AGM battery for BMW for maybe $150 or 50% more than a lead battery.

That's inexpensive compared to just going to BMW dealer and throwing $700 at it.
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
Even Walmart has the AGM battery for BMW for maybe $150 or 50% more than a lead battery.

That's inexpensive compared to just going to BMW dealer and throwing $700 at it.
My 105 AH AGM was installed and programmed for ~$350 by my dealer. At the time the dealers were the only source for 105 AH AGMís.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:05 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Doug, is that the stock size battery for your car or did you upgrade to a larger battery? I wouldn't mind getting a battery larger than the 72AH I have currently if it actually fits that is.

Regarding battery life, my last car was a Mercedes I kept for a long time but I was surprised that the original battery lasted more than 10 years before it wouldn't crank one day when the temperature dropped to about -25C very cold for here. I don't know if it was an AGM but it was in the engine compartment and had to be programmed to the car when replaced for the proper charging.
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:11 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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In the engine compartment was not likely AGM that are fragile to their environment, with cautions against vibration, dirt, and heat. The heat lowers the voltage at which excessive gassing occurs, and the starved plate AGM has ZERO excess electrolyte to afford to gas off.

The primary advantage of the AGM over the FLA is disconnecting - to some extent - the physical size from the AH capacity. The AGM plates squeeze the glass matting to the point that the sides of an AGM may bulge in reaction to this compression force.

My 105 AH now installed was an upgrade from the stock 92 AH IIRC.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 11-23-2018, 11:21 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is online now
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I live in a money hungry town, with Permian Basin oil boom. Lot's of rich people get the retail + infinity pricing.

I could be wrong about price, but they wanted $300 to install my Michelins, and I discussed using the 5yearold TPMS sensors.

So with my barely driven 3k or 4k miles per year, it seems battery is always charging. I use a scangauge with volt setting to watch.

Always charging around 14.5 to 14.7, but if I drive on weekend for about 600 miles it starts charging around 13.8 or less leading me to believe it's close to full charge.

What AH is my 14 X1 s28i M Sport, and is it good to get bigger AH?

I mean if it's not gonna charge up very easy, it's never be full, and I live in apartment with not very good way to plug in my Deltran the standard should be ok.

I'm told if I don't register battery, it will charge more thinking the battery is older. Hell yeah, I want my charger to get with it. Charge up or don't.
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Old 11-23-2018, 11:58 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
I live in a money hungry town, with Permian Basin oil boom. Lot's of rich people get the retail + infinity pricing.

I could be wrong about price, but they wanted $300 to install my Michelins, and I discussed using the 5yearold TPMS sensors.

So with my barely driven 3k or 4k miles per year, it seems battery is always charging. I use a scangauge with volt setting to watch.

Always charging around 14.5 to 14.7, but if I drive on weekend for about 600 miles it starts charging around 13.8 or less leading me to believe it's close to full charge.

What AH is my 14 X1 s28i M Sport, and is it good to get bigger AH?

I mean if it's not gonna charge up very easy, it's never be full, and I live in apartment with not very good way to plug in my Deltran the standard should be ok.

I'm told if I don't register battery, it will charge more thinking the battery is older. Hell yeah, I want my charger to get with it. Charge up or don't.

I cant comment on the TPMS system or tire install prices but I am also looking to get a bigger AH battery now if I have to replace anyways. From the research I have done, new cars now know how old your battery is and how many times you have started your car with the battery and even in my scan tool for bmw will tell me statistics of how many days percentage wise the battery was at certain charge levels when it was turned on keeping track of how much the battery discharges during its life in the car. Now the key is that it takes all this information and adjusts the charging profile of the battery over its lifetime in the car to prevent overcharging and help it last longer in terms of how many years. It must be registered or it will think the new battery is for example still at 50% life of the old battery and improperly charge it. It is also difficult to trust independent mechanics to properly register a new battery in a bmw as they may not have the right tool or patience to figure out how to do it properly and just give you the car back with the new battery installed physically and how would the common person know any better. Overcharging an AGM battery will age it very quickly and reduce an 80AH batter to 30AH in short order. The voltage still shows strong and cranking amps shows well but the battery is not storing the amp hours that you might think it does.
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Old 11-24-2018, 12:21 AM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Originally Posted by themishmosh View Post
The car has a vent tube for AGM batteries. There is no such thing for conventional batteries.
Ok this had me puzzled at first. When you say the car has a vent tube for AGM batteries, knowing that the battery is located in the trunk is it not logical then to think the reason there is a vent is because FLA (or AGM if over charged) will produce gasses which have to be vented out of the trunk? if it is in the trunk it must have a vent even if just in case gases were to escape if charging characteristics were not accurate and gasses were produced.

When you say there is no such thing for conventional batteries (vent tube) this statement can be considered correct for FLA batteries located in the engine compartment, no vent is required because it is not in the same breathing area as the trunk located battery would be and does not necessitate the same precautions to vent outside because it is already outside the passenger compartment.
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Old 11-24-2018, 10:26 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is online now
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I'm curious as to how the car battery is kept up without ruining it during shipping.

I think if I left car to sit for a month the battery would be dead and ruined.

My car was left at Munich in mid June 2013, and I got in Texas mid Aug 2013.
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Old 11-24-2018, 12:30 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is online now
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I'm curious as to how the car battery is kept up without ruining it during shipping.

I think if I left car to sit for a month the battery would be dead and ruined.

My car was left at Munich in mid June 2013, and I got in Texas mid Aug 2013.
FWIW, I can tell you 100% that the battery in an E90 does NOT go flat / get ruined after 3 weeks of sitting. It will still start the car.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:14 PM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
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I was packing for a road trip out west when the battery in my 2014 X1 sDrive went dead, this was in 2017. I went to the local battery store and they replaced the battery with a non-AGM, which I did not realize at the time. I registered the battery with a Carly device as instructed. 3 months later the battery failed. I then discovered it was an FLA and replaced it with the appropriate AGM.

I am uncertain whether the battery failed because it was FLA, or because the Carly device did not properly register the battery or perhaps because the battery was defective in the first place. Being concerned that there was something wrong with the charging system given that the first battery only lasted four years and the second one three months, I bit the bullet and took it into the BMW dealership. The dealership checked everything over and found nothing wrong with the charging system. They did note that the battery was not registered, despite the fact that the Carly OBD II unit had registered it successfully and pointed out that only AGM batteries should be used in this car.

The bottom line is use only an AGM battery and register it properly. I did question the dealership about the necessity of the latter, thinking it may be a gimmick to get the car into the dealership but they assured me the charging algorithm was set by the registration process and failure to do so would shorten the service life of the battery.

I will say this, what few times I have had to take my car into the BMW dealership, the repair was impressive and the service manager always took the time to answer all of my questions.
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