80k miles. Do I need to change rear differential fluid? - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #26  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:45 AM
jck66 jck66 is offline
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To clarify:
redline 75W90 is for limited slip differentials but will not hurt an open differential https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-gl-5-gear-oil
75W90NS has no friction additives and is advertised for transmissions but can be used for an open diff as well https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

I have never heard the term "non slip differential". You have either a "limited slip" or "open".
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:56 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I thought OPEN = NON-LIMITED SLIP = NON-SLIP and this is what we have in F10, correct?

According to this: "BMW rear differentials are either open without a limited-slip feature or with limited-slip (posi-traction). "

From this site: https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...Oil/#rear-diff

Hence i based my search on this:



All the research I've done suggested that most fluids including RED LINE that does not say NS at the end CONTAIN additives for limited slip and that is NOT the right fluid.



I also found a document FROM BMA clearly suggesting our differentials SHOULD NOT use any additives:

"Oil additives

All transmissions are designed in such a way that there is absolutely no need to use oil additives. BMW is totally against the use of such additives. We will also accept no liability for any consequences resulting from the use of additives."

Source: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...lid/1VndBYEvZ5


and the Redline NS says it does NOT have these additives (friction modifiers).

"Contains extreme pressure additives like our 75W90 GL-5 oil, but lacks friction modifiers to balance slipperiness"


So i thought the NS fluid is a perfect match.

Wrong?

Last edited by yogi799; 05-15-2019 at 09:05 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:44 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Aaarghhhh, just found this recent thread. dammit. :

========================================

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...47&postcount=2

Do not use GL-5 gear oil. The 83222295532 is GL-4:

https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/707231_x800.webp


I'd use either Redline MT-85:

https://www.redlineoil.com/mt-85-75w85-gl-4-gear-oil


========================================



>>> But the very description of that oil says DO NOT USE WITH HYPOID DIFFERENTIALS and our BMW oil says HYPOID on the bottle!!!

AAArgghh!!! WHAT THE HECK TO DO?? Which fluid is right???

..

Last edited by yogi799; 05-15-2019 at 09:01 PM.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:23 AM
surly surly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
Aaarghhhh, just found this recent thread. dammit. :

========================================

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...47&postcount=2

Do not use GL-5 gear oil. The 83222295532 is GL-4:

https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/707231_x800.webp


I'd use either Redline MT-85:

https://www.redlineoil.com/mt-85-75w85-gl-4-gear-oil


========================================



>>> But the very description of that oil says DO NOT USE WITH HYPOID DIFFERENTIALS and our BMW oil says HYPOID on the bottle!!!

AAArgghh!!! WHAT THE HECK TO DO?? Which fluid is right???

..
Genuine G1 being GL-4 doesn't equate to "do not use GL-5" in my books. My rear diff spec said SAF-XO or Synthetik OSP. SAF-XO has been used for decades and is definitely a GL-5. That's why I went with Amsoil.

As I said, who knows what might be different about the front diff, so I stuck with what the dealer said. Just to be more fun, my G2 bottle doesn't say GL-anything on it.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:13 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I know, that is why it is so hard to find correct and affirmative information.... LOTS of conflicting info out there, dammit. Like this... Look, it says compatible with our EXACT rear diff oil (Gl4, non-slip), yet it says LS (limited slip which we do not have) and GL5....



Would love to have a definite answer before the trip...

.

Last edited by yogi799; 05-16-2019 at 07:14 AM.
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  #31  
Old 05-18-2019, 11:35 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Darn it, are you guys able to see the pictures in my posts above??? I have pasted a tonne of them and the thread/posts would be useless without them. The pics were uploaded to MS onedrive and shared on here but I've just opened the thread and bam - NO pics showed up until i myself logged into my Onedrive account (suggesting you probably COULD NEVER see them in the first place???)

But regardless, I hate to beat the horse dead but with our rear differential being :

a) non-limited slip (we know that from the recommended BMW G1 oil)
b) not needing ANY additives (according to Newtis BMW info)

Will this https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-ns-gl-5-gear-oil work for the rear, since it says:

a) it is a "non-slip formula" (hence name NS) >> I assume it means the same as: non-limited slip (does it??)
b) contains no friction modifier additives

??

Or shall I NOT flush my fluid with this redline one before my long trip?? I would love to but if we cannot be certain?

What's the verdict? Any definitive answers??? I am leaning towards a YES it is a good replacement... but what about you guys??

Last edited by yogi799; 05-20-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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  #32  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:07 AM
jck66 jck66 is offline
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No, I can't see any photos in your messages. To paraphrase what I wrote above, if you want to use a Redline product in your open diff, then either 75W90 or 75W90NS will be OK.

You mention a transfer case in your last message - transfer case fluid is different than the differential. For a transfer case the BMW fluid is recommended (at least to my knowledge) and a transfer case reset (software reset) needs to be done by the dealer.
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  #33  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:20 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Oh that sucks you guys never saw the images! Omg.. All context lost!

Yes I was talking all the time about the rear differential (I've mistakenly called it transfer case, my bad) . I think I have the right oil then. Thanks bud!

Last edited by yogi799; 05-20-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:33 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Hey guys, so I have some info from Red Line. Maybe that puts the issue to the rest and I might even replace the fluid before my long trip given their assurances.

"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the 75W90NS is a non slippery gear oil, it could be used in an open, non clutch type limited slip differential.
In the 535 differential from 7/2011 the Hypoid Axle Oil G1 is called for a 75W85 GL-4, the MT-85 would be a suitable replacement.
In the 535 different to 7/2011 a 75W90 GL-5 is called for and the 75W90 would be recommended it contains a friction modifier to control chatter from a clutch type limited slip but also beneficial for friction and temperature reduction.
The 75W90NS could be used in the earlier production car, it could be used but would be lower viscosity than called for in the later production car."


Then I asked:

"The back of mt85 oil says this (and isn't my differential "hypoid"?): "Not designed for hypoid differentials."

The rep replied:

"The note on our GL-4 products is referring to use in a high offset hypoid differential, your differential doesn't use a high offset ring and pinion, a GL-4 is suitable. In your differential BMW is calling for a GL-4 75W85 gear oil, the MT-85 would be a suitable replacement."

So looks like I am exchanging the NS fluid for the MT-85 as some have suggested somewhere above in our exchanges.

...
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  #35  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:30 AM
surly surly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post

"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the 75W90NS is a non slippery gear oil, it could be used in an open, non clutch type limited slip differential.
In the 535 differential from 7/2011 the Hypoid Axle Oil G1 is called for a 75W85 GL-4, the MT-85 would be a suitable replacement.
In the 535 different to 7/2011 a 75W90 GL-5 is called for and the 75W90 would be recommended it contains a friction modifier to control chatter from a clutch type limited slip but also beneficial for friction and temperature reduction.



...
So here's my problem, which I encountered when going through this too.

My rear diff is pn 33107584448. That part was NOT changed in 7/2011. Nor anywhere else along the way. The fluid specified was changed, but the hardware was not changed at all. Go take a look at realoem and similar. The same diff was used in various models from 2008-2017.

Why would the required fluid change if the hardware did not change? I could see if they discovered a problem and updated the fluid specification to match, retroactively applying it to any and all vehicles with the part# - but that's not what they do. The parts systems say that you use different fluid types depending (maybe) on build date even though the parts didn't change.

It doesn't make sense to me.

The bulletin that I linked earlier seemed to restate, and retroactively state, updated fluid specifications for front and rear diffs for all models of all dates across the board.

to recap, I'm 4/2011 build date and I went SAF-XO - > any 75W90 GL-5 in the rear and G2 in the front, based on a half hour of discussion at the dealer.
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  #36  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:20 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Yeah. Weird as hell surly...

But at least your rear oil agrees with what the redline guy has said.... Any 75 90 gl5

Makes me think it matters not what fluid we use. It's just some metal parts inside (lol). I'm kidding but just to some extent... Maybe it really matters little....

Plus, why would bmw charge 60 cad for half a litre when redline charges 25 cad for a full litre!? That a factor of 5! We know stealership steals money for no reason other than pure greed but 5 times more??? That should tell us something too....

BTW OEM fluid is also expensive in the USA so it's not just Canadian theft.

I'll still get the Mt 85 fluid based on his advice (and one source quoted above) but I'm still wondering if I should change it before the trip. I'd love to but this situation makes me a tiny bit uneasy about it, unlike flushing engine oil....

That said, though, car actually works much less on a highway trip than typical city drive.. So technically changing any fluid before a long road trip makes zero sense.

Last edited by yogi799; 05-21-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:13 AM
surly surly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
Plus, why would bmw charge 60 cad for half a litre when redline charges 25 cad for a full litre!? That a factor of 5! We know stealership steals money for no reason other than pure greed but 5 times more??? That should tell us something too....

BTW OEM fluid is also expensive in the USA so it's not just Canadian theft.
It's not a dealer thing. They only overcharge a little for SAF-XO. Yet you'll find that G1, G2 from any online place is still way more expensive than SAF-XO, so it's not a dealer thing.

I don't know what's special about it. It smells like any other gear lube.

I only used a little bit of my second bottle of G2 (which I was hoping to return). It was only opened a month ago and ~50mL out of 500mL is used. If someone wants a deal on 450mL of G2 - let me know. (I'm thinking like CAD$20 instead of CAD$60+tax at dealer).
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