80k miles. Do I need to change rear differential fluid? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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Old 05-13-2019, 07:36 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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80k miles. Do I need to change rear differential fluid?

Hey guys, very long road trip ahead. Shall I change it (never don't it in this car, 80k miles)? If so... Any pointers... How... Etc... Thx.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:49 AM
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Yes, you should change. I think my schedule is 60k miles.

I didn't do it myself, the shop only wanted $70 - I did buy a magnetic drain plug to replace the stock one.

Here is a pic - if it helps at all:
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:53 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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My 2014 535i doesn't have a drain plug in the diff'.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:17 AM
Kent-Ty Kent-Ty is offline
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How long do you plan to keep the car? My rule of thumb is: if greater than 100,000 miles than change it; if less than 100,000 than don't bother.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:41 AM
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You're planning a "very long" road trip. How long? Temperature range? How long to you plan on keeping the car?

Personally, those questions don't really matter to me. I would do a trans flush (if you haven't already) as well as the diff. Cheap insurance and you want your car at to be at its best. And depending on your last oil change, maybe the oil too.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:06 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 535i, '99 328i retd
LOONG roadtrip. 35 hrs one way. It will get very hot where i am going. 95F

Plan on keeping the car a long time. 15 yrs...

I think i get the hint. BUT, is it critical to change it BEFORE my trip or makes little difference?
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:07 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
Yes, you should change. I think my schedule is 60k miles.

I didn't do it myself, the shop only wanted $70 - I did buy a magnetic drain plug to replace the stock one.

Here is a pic - if it helps at all:
Thanks Sam, ok so i see the drain plug, is the fill plug above somewhere?

Anything else to know from the service manual?
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:19 AM
Kent-Ty Kent-Ty is offline
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Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
LOONG roadtrip. 35 hrs one way. It will get very hot where i am going. 95F

Plan on keeping the car a long time. 15 yrs...

I think i get the hint. BUT, is it critical to change it BEFORE my trip or makes little difference?
Ok. If it we me I would change trans and diff before trip (and front diff and transfer case if x-drive). This will be quite expensive if you are not doing it yourself but worth it in the long run if you are planning to keep the car that long.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:28 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I just watched Bavauto video and i see there are two types, one has NO fill plug. Anyone cares to guess what 2011 535 has? Oh, wait... Sam's is 2011...

Also, Kent.. why expensive? Looks simple, unless i have to buy a suction pump but even that should be no more than 15 bucks...?

Just found this... from a prior thread, dang. looks like no drain plug. Gotta suck the fluid out. Great... REGULAR FLUID transfer pump should work guys, no???

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...h-lid/1LUMfeEi

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...t=differential

..

Last edited by yogi799; 05-13-2019 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:42 AM
surly surly is offline
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My 2011 535xi has a fill plug only in the rear, and fill and drain in the front.

Note that to do the front, you have to remove the lower stiffening plate, which is fastened with 10 single-use bolts that require replacement. They were >$6 each from my local dealer. They're $3-$4 on ECS and similar.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:42 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 535i, '99 328i retd
Called the stealer, they said 65 CAD per litre and i need that much. So about $45 USD.
He said hypoid g1 or whatever, anyone know if I can substitute that with any other oil from normal stores?
Weight information, etc? He was unable to give it to me. He said he didn't know.

EDIT: I just called them again to get P/N and another guy said it is 65CAD for half a liter and i need 2! 130 CAD for just fluid??? WTH

2nd guy was right and i've found it, Holy CRAP this is expensive. anyone know if I can substitute with the same specs of normal store fluid??

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...1/83222295532/




Last edited by yogi799; 05-13-2019 at 12:13 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:59 PM
Kent-Ty Kent-Ty is offline
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Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
I just watched Bavauto video and i see there are two types, one has NO fill plug. Anyone cares to guess what 2011 535 has? Oh, wait... Sam's is 2011...

Also, Kent.. why expensive? Looks simple, unless i have to buy a suction pump but even that should be no more than 15 bucks...?

Just found this... from a prior thread, dang. looks like no drain plug. Gotta suck the fluid out. Great... REGULAR FLUID transfer pump should work guys, no???

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...h-lid/1LUMfeEi

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...t=differential

..
I said if you DON'T do it yourself (i.e. pay someone to do it) it will be expensive.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:51 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Dammit. Went to one store with a bunch of oils and nothing for gear oil that is for NON-LIMITED SLIP. So far all of them for Limited Slip.

I'll try another one but not holding out too much hope. But 130 CAD for 1litre of fluid.. No way!
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:54 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Tell me what they mean by CONVENTIONAL: non-limited slip???

"Exceeds the service fill requirements of conventional and limited slip differentials "

Castrol Gear Oil, 75W90, 946-mL

https://www.partsource.ca/products/c...gear-oil-946ml
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:22 AM
surly surly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
Called the stealer, they said 65 CAD per litre and i need that much. So about $45 USD.
He said hypoid g1 or whatever, anyone know if I can substitute that with any other oil from normal stores?
Weight information, etc? He was unable to give it to me. He said he didn't know.

EDIT: I just called them again to get P/N and another guy said it is 65CAD for half a liter and i need 2! 130 CAD for just fluid??? WTH

2nd guy was right and i've found it, Holy CRAP this is expensive. anyone know if I can substitute with the same specs of normal store fluid??
I've posted before about this - figuring out which diff fluid is "proper" isn't easy. There are build date ranges, letters detailing chains of supercession for different vehicles which are hard to understand.

For my 4/2011 535xi, the best I could figure out with the whole Internet and THREE people from my local dealer, including the Service Dept liason, was that I needed G2 for my front axle and SAF-XO or OSP for the rear.

I bought the liquid gold fluid ($55/500mL x2) G2 from the dealer for the front, and I chose to go "SAF-XO" for the rear and used Amsoil Severe Gear SVT.

I ended up using only about 75mL of my second 500mL of G2

There are different combinations of SAF-XO, OSP, G1, G2, G3 used in different differentials. Frustrating.

I've linked bulletins seem to simplify things, but then the dealer had other references with later dates that seemed to complicate it again.

Front:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ion/1VndAkI4Dp

Rear:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VnczONFlo

Last edited by surly; 05-14-2019 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:43 AM
srschang srschang is online now
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I couldn't figure out which fluid to use for the front & rear diffs on my 2008 528xi, so I called the dealer parts department. He asked the guys in the service bay, they use BMW oil (not sure what) that they get in a 55 gallon drum. The parts guy had me bring in a clean 1 gallon jug. He filled it for me from the 55 gallon drum. Free.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:10 AM
jck66 jck66 is offline
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To the OP: according to the BMW CCA maintenance guru, you can substitute Red Line 75W90 for the BMW fluid. He states that you won't do any damage to the diff by using the LSD fluid if you can't find the 75W90NS version.

As for the timing, I wouldn't worry too much about pre- or post- road trip. In your shoes, I'd wait until after the trip just in case something goes wrong - then I'm not thousands of km from home.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:01 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surly View Post
I've posted before about this - figuring out which diff fluid is "proper" isn't easy. There are build date ranges, letters detailing chains of supercession for different vehicles which are hard to understand.

For my 4/2011 535xi, the best I could figure out with the whole Internet and THREE people from my local dealer, including the Service Dept liason, was that I needed G2 for my front axle and SAF-XO or OSP for the rear.

I bought the liquid gold fluid ($55/500mL x2) G2 from the dealer for the front, and I chose to go "SAF-XO" for the rear and used Amsoil Severe Gear SVT.

I ended up using only about 75mL of my second 500mL of G2

There are different combinations of SAF-XO, OSP, G1, G2, G3 used in different differentials. Frustrating.

I've linked bulletins seem to simplify things, but then the dealer had other references with later dates that seemed to complicate it again.

Front:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ion/1VndAkI4Dp

Rear:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VnczONFlo
Quote:
Originally Posted by srschang View Post
I couldn't figure out which fluid to use for the front & rear diffs on my 2008 528xi, so I called the dealer parts department. He asked the guys in the service bay, they use BMW oil (not sure what) that they get in a 55 gallon drum. The parts guy had me bring in a clean 1 gallon jug. He filled it for me from the 55 gallon drum. Free.
BANG on guys, it took me literally the WHOLE day to find the right fluid (at least 5-6 hrs on the internet)! So much misleading information out there. Sounds like my car has a NON slip differential yet most 3rd party fluid say they are good for conventional (non slip?) and limited slip diff's. So that adds to confusion big time.

After hours of research i have settled on AND was lucky to have one in a local store (and only 25 CAD/ liter vs 130 CAD at dealer):

RED LINE 75W90NS GL-5 GEAR OIL

https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

I hope this is gonna work for me, is it?

But from reading for hours, i had a suspicion this might work too (although the napa site says it doesn't, go figure)

ENEOS Gear Oil 75W-90 1 qt / 946 ml

https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/AOO3092300

This one was also good i think (or best actually, made in Germany) but not easily available in my local area

LIQUI MOLY FULLY SYNTHETIC GEAR OIL (GL5) SAE 75W-90

https://products.liqui-moly.com/full...ct-media-modal


Quote:
Originally Posted by jck66 View Post
To the OP: according to the BMW CCA maintenance guru, you can substitute Red Line 75W90 for the BMW fluid. He states that you won't do any damage to the diff by using the LSD fluid if you can't find the 75W90NS version.

As for the timing, I wouldn't worry too much about pre- or post- road trip. In your shoes, I'd wait until after the trip just in case something goes wrong - then I'm not thousands of km from home.
So i think i got the right one right? the NS for non-slip differentials...

Yeah, i was inclined to postpone the flush as well, but now that i may have been able to source the right fluid... dang? What to do? I like you thinking... both options are likely harmless but opening something that doesn't leak and seems to be ok is maybe a better plan before such a long road trip as you say...



Last edited by yogi799; 05-14-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:41 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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But then... i still have a month before departure so time to watch for issues, leaks etc (no reason for any... ). so maybe it makes sense to change it??
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:52 PM
srschang srschang is online now
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I think you are way overthinking this. To help put it in perspective, as I mentioned above, I got the oil from my BMW dealer from their 55 gallon drum. I should have added that when I got this oil to change the front & rear differential fluid, the car had just under 200,000 miles. And it was the first time I had changed the oil. I had owned the car since 9000 miles, so I know it hadn't been changed before.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:55 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srschang View Post
I think you are way overthinking this. To help put it in perspective, as I mentioned above, I got the oil from my BMW dealer from their 55 gallon drum. I should have added that when I got this oil to change the front & rear differential fluid, the car had just under 200,000 miles. And it was the first time I had changed the oil. I had owned the car since 9000 miles, so I know it hadn't been changed before.

Most places I've read said replace every 40 to 50k miles... That's why my "concern". But yeah, I doubt it makes any difference in my case (around 80k). But then... It's such an easy thing to do.. Especially when there is a drain and fill plug...

Last edited by yogi799; 05-14-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:17 PM
srschang srschang is online now
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Well, I have one data point that says the front & rear differential fluid is OK for 200,000 miles. I guess that can be considered a lifetime fill. If others have had failures at less than 200,000 miles, that would provide more data to be considered. But I doubt there will be many who chime in with failures.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:37 PM
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ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
LOONG roadtrip. 35 hrs one way...
Shoot... Last fall we did a 5600+ mile road trip and averaged over 32mpg. What a pleasurable trip! FWIW, my SA said I should get the oil changed AFTER the trip.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:56 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srschang View Post
I think you are way overthinking this. To help put it in perspective, as I mentioned above, I got the oil from my BMW dealer from their 55 gallon drum. I should have added that when I got this oil to change the front & rear differential fluid, the car had just under 200,000 miles. And it was the first time I had changed the oil. I had owned the car since 9000 miles, so I know it hadn't been changed before.
BTW, I doubt my stealer would give me free oil like yours did. If they charge $130 CAD for a quart/litre... No way on Earth, even if they charged half that.

A dumb service advisor once told me she could not even tell me anything (part numbers etc) about tranny fluid and pan change. She point blank refused to even acknowledge that that "lifetime" fluid should probably be changed. I had to dig all that crap out on my own (thanks to FCP Euro for excellent into and part combos). Sure, i did get ahold of a much more reasonable and honest guy (service manager) but to give out free oil.... No way on the freakin earth.

So, JCK, is this it? Can I put this thing into my 2011 non slip differential without a sweat? Sounds like it based on all the info on the bottle and various comparisons. Stealer earlier confirmed i need the non slip fluid.

RED LINE 75W90NS GL-5 GEAR OIL


.

Last edited by yogi799; 05-14-2019 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:34 AM
surly surly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
BANG on guys, it took me literally the WHOLE day to find the right fluid (at least 5-6 hrs on the internet)! So much misleading information out there. Sounds like my car has a NON slip differential yet most 3rd party fluid say they are good for conventional (non slip?) and limited slip diff's. So that adds to confusion big time.

After hours of research i have settled on AND was lucky to have one in a local store (and only 25 CAD/ liter vs 130 CAD at dealer):

RED LINE 75W90NS GL-5 GEAR OIL

https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

I hope this is gonna work for me, is it?
I think you're confusing the specifications. Our diffs are open diffs, non limited slip. The NS fluid is for LIMITED SLIP diffs. You just need 75W90. I've used Redline in past open diff RWD BMWs without an issue, but have switched to Amsoil out of preference.

What you've purchased is, basically, an SAF-XO replacement plus other additives for limited slip differentials.

Now - what's the difference between SAF-XO and OSP, G1, G2 and G3? I don't know, but BMW has been updating the fluid spec for front diffs in particular. I was concerned about compatibility issues with the materials inside the diff, or the fluid that was originally in the diff from the factory so I didn't take any liberties with the front diff fluid spec. Word "out there" is that the front fluid always drains more "beat up" than the rear, for whatever reason.

The front diff is a lot smaller and shaped different than a standard rear "pumpkin" - maybe there are manufacturing or durability challenges relating to the form factor required for front diffs? Smaller ring gears? Different layout? I don't know, but I know I don't want to ever have to buy a new one on my own dime.

YMMV, do what you like on your own car etc...etc...etc...

If it were mine, I'd go back and get Redline 75W90 for the rear diff instead of 75W90NS.

As mentioned, I opted for Amsoil - over the years I began to prefer their driveline fluids over Redline but Redline has always been a solid product. I went slightly heavier in the rear diff with 75W110 (Amsoil Severe Gear SVT) based on the fact that the original 75W90 specification had a very wide range which was later split to create the 75W110 specification in addition to 75W90. Amsoil Severe Gear SVG is their 75W90 fluid which I've used in multiple E39s, an E46 and an E90 previously. My F10 has a Stage 1 tune and I'm running a lot more torque than the other cars ever saw so I went a little thicker. I've also read that they don't make diffs bulletproof like they used to in the E39/E46 days and a lot of late-E, F and G diffs get whiny. I bought my E90 with 108,000km on it and it had a whiny diff already.

If you order from Amsoil's store, I've usually found they'll deliver in Canada promptly for $8-$11 for UPS. Brick and mortar dealers/resellers are out there and often your local parts, speed or equipment shops can order it in for you.

Quote:
But from reading for hours, i had a suspicion this might work too (although the napa site says it doesn't, go figure)

ENEOS Gear Oil 75W-90 1 qt / 946 ml

https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/AOO3092300

This one was also good i think (or best actually, made in Germany) but not easily available in my local area

LIQUI MOLY FULLY SYNTHETIC GEAR OIL (GL5) SAE 75W-90

https://products.liqui-moly.com/full...ct-media-modal




So i think i got the right one right? the NS for non-slip differentials...

Yeah, i was inclined to postpone the flush as well, but now that i may have been able to source the right fluid... dang? What to do? I like you thinking... both options are likely harmless but opening something that doesn't leak and seems to be ok is maybe a better plan before such a long road trip as you say...



Last edited by surly; 05-15-2019 at 04:37 AM.
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