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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 05-03-2018, 05:17 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Exterior MIrrors don't work

After removing all the interior to dry it out after rear sunroof drain plugged. I put everything back only to find mirrors don't work. Got out my All Data wiring diagrams only to find the color codes don't match the car. I fooled around with it for a couple days and finally took it to my beamer guy. He gave up because he had the same issue. I believe he said he (we) need the factory TIS book. He recommended a electrical specialty shop, I called them and the don't work on beamers. Go figure. I called another shop that I've dealt with and got the sense that they'd reluctantly work on it and they didn't have the factory book either. So...I'm here hoping one of you has access to the factory wiring diagram 'cause I'm stumped.
The memory switch for the seats and mirrors is a little goofy in that one of the three switches will bump the back recline, one of them bumps the seat forward a bit of course the mirrors don't move. Nor do they when the tranny is in reverse.
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  #2  
Old 05-05-2018, 08:29 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=700368
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  #3  
Old 05-05-2018, 04:12 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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I must be color blind

Thanks Mr.Graybeard, I've had that manual for a few years now. As you can see from the attachment the wire colors aren't close to that schematic (5116.0.00-.01:S17) or maybe I am color blind.
Spending a few more hours today at this I found that 1 my electrical knowledge leaves a lot to be desired and 2 I'm confusing S17 (mirror control switch) with s12 (memory mirrors control switch) the color codes do match s12. I guess s17 is inside the door. I'd take the panel off to see but it's very stubborn and I'm afraid I'll break the lip on the top by forcing it.
Right now I'm leaning towards mirror adjust the old fashioned way.

Attachment 793196
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:23 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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I'm guessing this is S12 not S17. If someone can end my confusion I would really appreciate it.
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  #5  
Old 05-05-2018, 07:00 PM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aduckfan View Post
Attachment 793244
I'm guessing this is S12 not S17. If someone can end my confusion I would really appreciate it.
That's X625, the connector for S17.

S17 is the switch in the grab handle where you directly control mirror position.

Let me ask you this: did the mirrors work before you had your leak?
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  #6  
Old 05-05-2018, 09:41 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Thanks again,
So s17 plugs into x625. Where does s12 come into the picture?
The mirrors along with all the other systems worked before I was forced to pull everything from the interior. Including: center council, rear fuse box (was lifted up to get he water out from under), package tray, speakers, c pillars, heat/ac controls, glove box, carpeting, seats, headliner, sunroof, probably more stuff than I remember. I put everything back before I noticed the mirrors didn't work so then I pulled the dash and council back out thinking I must have forgotten to plug something in but so far I can't find a loose connector. I did try the seat/mirror memory switch S57 and it doesn't work properly. So maybe there's something wrong with A21. I do know that no one wants to take this on or if they do it's reluctantly.
I'm wondering if there isn't a way to just supply ground and voltage to x625, run new wiring to the mirror motors and bypass all the parallel circuits involved. Of course that would mean getting the darn door panels off and that center clip is really holding on. I broke the one on the left rear door and had to repair it. A little gun shy trying that again
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  #7  
Old 05-05-2018, 10:45 PM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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S12/S17 ... the confusing thing is that the ETM has schematics for memory and non-memory. After looking a little closer at the ETM, I see what's got you scratching your head. Non-memory systems get switch S17; Memory systems get S12.

You've got seat/mirror memory, which is controlled by the memory control module under the front seat. It's in a spot that could get flooded out if your floor got wet.

You could surely rig around the memory module; plenty of E34s came without one. But in may be easier to fix what you've got.

I would go to connector X18320 ... pins 2 and 3 should have voltage with the switch on. A 4-pin connector, X18323, should have voltage at all times at pin 2.

The memory schematic isn't in section 5116, it's in section 5200 in the ETM. Check out page 5200.1-06 ... check the wiring between A21 and S12 ... do the colors of those wires look correct?
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:45 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Wire colors except ground are correct. Ground is BR/OR. I've tried to check voltage on s21 without much success a couple days ago. I did order a pair of piercing test leads to help make in circuit test but the diameter of the wire and location will still make it difficult (I should splurged on the flukes) I'll get to it later today. I'm not optimistic about 18320 since the mirrors worked before disassembly. But I sure as heck got an open circuit someplace.
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2018, 03:05 PM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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You did check the fuses -- two in the front box and one in the back...
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2018, 06:36 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Yup.
I have voltage at 2&3 of A21 (I guess that's 18320) wire Color doesn't match. I have no continuity from S12 to pins 19~21 on A21 which I guess makes sense since I don't have supply voltage too S12. I have to dig around under the seat to check voltage on 18323. I'm on that now. I have voltage on Pin #2. Doesn't appear that the first connection from x625 is x622 ? I'm looking for that one. somehow I have to trace the wires that connect S12 to wherever they start.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2018, 08:27 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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X622 looks like a connector in the harness for the passenger side mirror -- see 7100.0-24, illustration No. 3. Looks like that one may be accessible without removing the door panel.

BTW, I did a little searching in the ETM and realoem, and it looks like the mirrors for the memory system are different from the low-tech standard mirrors. In fact, you can see on 5200.1-06 that the memory control module is delivering only 5 volts to the memory mirror control switch S12 (and by extension, the mirrors). I'd be reluctant to deliver a straight 12 volts there through an improvised harness.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2018, 10:33 AM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Thanks for hanging in there I'm running out of ideas. I can't find x622 (yet). I need to get the door panel off !!! That center clip is holding on for dear life. I guess I'll try a bigger hammer.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2018, 11:38 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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IIRC the center clip (behind the armrest) requires that you lift after all the button-type retainers are pulled out.

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  #14  
Old 05-07-2018, 01:09 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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I think I also have to remove the chrome strip on the top. Just went to wrecking yard got a new old switch. Same thing..nothing Ok I'm going to try and get the door panel off.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2018, 07:54 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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A couple guys are parting late-model E34s over in the bimmerforums classifieds ... maybe one of them has a memory module for cheap.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2018, 09:45 AM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Funny how our minds are beginning to meld. I was going to ask you if that's was the culprit. I need to verify before I go to that expense (and work). What are the odds with everything that module controls, the only part of it that fails is the mirror circuit?
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:11 AM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Stumbled across this looking for a module. Would seem to me the same procedure would work to power the mirrors at least make them move,

I found this job (moving the seat) very frustrating when I first had to do it, years ago.

Knowing what I know now, here's what I should have done.

1. Locate the 2 thickest wires going to the BRN connector. They are BLU/YEL and VIO/YEL.
2. Cut the BLU/YEL wire, leaving enough wire to splice it back together later.
3. Bare a bit of the free BLU/YEL wire just cut (the free end, not the stub going to BRN connector).
4. Bring my portable 12v battery pack and clip POS to the BLU/YEL wire just bared and NEG to the car's chassis. If the seat is moving towards me then continue until satisfied.
5. (Optional) If the seat is moving away then reverse the battery pack terminals and move the seat towards me until satisfied.
6. Unbolt the 2 seat fixing bolts using 7/16" socket wrench.
7. Pull the seat out and unscrew the A21 Module beneath it.
8. Solder and tape the BLU/YEL wire, repairing my first cut.

To see why this works, look at pg 5201-04 at http://www.e38.org/e32/e32_91_etm.pdf We are talking about M51 Drivers Seat Motor (the BRN connector is X657) The motor wires are BLU/YEL and VIO/YEL, 1 mm in cross-sectional area. Notice that both wires are Grounded to terminal 31 via the relays. So the VIO/YEL wire that I did NOT cut is still Grounded, and I can choose to power the BLU/YEL cut wire either +12V or -12V wrt the chassis GND with my portable battery pack, to cause the motor to rotate CW or CCW as I please.
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:19 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Measuring voltages on 18320 need to be done while the circuit is complete (I assume). Is there a foolproof way to do this? Like I've stated, I have a (just purchased) piercing probe for my DVM but with the size of these wires it's difficult to know if the pin is hitting the conductor or not. Or can these measurements be made from the connector?
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:43 PM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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You can tap into the back side of a lot of these multipin connectors by slipping a thin, stiff wire like a straight pin into the back side of the connector next to the wire. An unbent paper clip also can work.
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  #20  
Old 05-08-2018, 02:37 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Boar Wars

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That's what I call it when I see something like this (Boar Wars). Step closer to finding problem. I did find that I have voltage to the LED on the memory switch. Doesn't light up but it should. Also find that the switch seems to work on everything but the mirrors, steering wheel, head rest, seat cushion, and back. So after a shopping trip I'll put this back in and see if magic happened and it reset. I think about all the times I disconnected and reconnected the battery in the last month or so it's a wonder anything works!
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  #21  
Old 05-08-2018, 02:42 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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just read your last reply that would be great except you'd have to open the connector, these have the wires bundled together and they go inside like a wire rope.
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2018, 10:23 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr._Graybeard View Post
If you try to operate your mirrors with an external power source, I'd use something low-powered, like a 9-volt radio battery. The motors get only 5 volts from the control module, according to the ETM.
I messed up here. Only one connector to the mirror gets just 5 volts -- that's pin no. 6 at connector x622. Pins 2, 3 and 4 at X622, the circuits that actually run the mirror motors, get 12 volts. 5200.1-07 shows that with driver's mirror Y9. Sorry about that

Meanwhile, I was driving in the rain this a.m. and the wipers quit, along with all the instruments. Time to do a little electrical troubleshooting of my own.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2018, 03:18 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Ok cool, I wish my little pea brain could get around this but here goes. I have to involve x625. Not sure why I need the 5 volts if I'm bypassing all modules and components besides x625. Unless S12 is designed for 5 volts. It's just a 3 pole switch. I guess. Could I bring 12 volts to pin # 5 of x625 and use pins 3 and 2 as supply to the mirror motors? Not sure how I'd control both mirrors with only two outputs. Actually looking at this a little closer that wouldn't work. Now, I could exchange s12 with s17 that would give me the input and output I need. I think. Let me know please. I went to salvage yard and they gave me a 17 first and I said no that's not right. Turned out it was. Of course I'll have to pay as much for the pig tail as the switch, but that's better than 500 to a grand for a new module. I can't find a used one anywhere.
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  #24  
Old 05-09-2018, 07:30 PM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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I blew the No. 1 fuse on my touring. I'd been tinkering with the tailgate window and somehow managed to disconnect the wires to the third brakelight. The connectors aren't insulated in any way, so when they touched it short circuited. Fixed now.

It's too bad you can't find a replacement module -- replacing it would be a whole lot easier than rewiring the mirrors, IMO. If presented with that task I think I'd just roll the window down and adjust the mirror glass manually.

A lot of the old standby BMW salvage yards have shut down or gotten out of the used parts business. I've bought from Zionsville Autosport, Strictly German, Don's Sport Cars (a Wisconsin yard) and others over the years. They saved me a lot money.

Not trying to tell you what to do, but here's a link to a yard in your corner of the continent ... north of the border ... might be worth an email, at least, if you haven't contacted them already. http://www.bimmerparts.ca/
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2018, 09:13 PM
aduckfan aduckfan is offline
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I got some up and down on the drivers mirror by cutting the wires before 622 and splicing in 625. I have a ways to go since the ETM doesn't cover the wiring colors from 622 to the mirrors. There all single colors. Pink, orange white ext. Anyway I'm pumped I think this will actually work.
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