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  #1  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:19 AM
tlester tlester is offline
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Need new brakes. "M Performance"

Hi all -

I need new breaks and probably rotors (I have that "pulsing" break response which is probably a warped rotor).

My breaks are "M performance". On ECS Tuning, I see options for "M Sport", "OE", and "Performance". But not "M Performance".

Hawk Front HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Set <-- Is that going to fit?
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:51 AM
edycol edycol is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlester View Post
Hi all -



I need new breaks and probably rotors (I have that "pulsing" break response which is probably a warped rotor).



My breaks are "M performance". On ECS Tuning, I see options for "M Sport", "OE", and "Performance". But not "M Performance".



Hawk Front HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Set <-- Is that going to fit?


Get OE or ATE or Textar pads.


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  #3  
Old 07-15-2019, 03:56 PM
mbanks21 mbanks21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlester View Post
Hi all -

I need new breaks and probably rotors (I have that "pulsing" break response which is probably a warped rotor).

My breaks are "M performance". On ECS Tuning, I see options for "M Sport", "OE", and "Performance". But not "M Performance".

Hawk Front HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Set <-- Is that going to fit?
What vehicle is this for?
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2019, 04:36 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlester View Post
Hawk Front HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Set <-- Is that going to fit?
Some observations:
  1. HPS 5.0 is a pad compound (friction material). Pad sets using that compound are available for many different cars. If you identified your car correctly when you searched for pads to fit your car, then it will fit.
  2. Are you replacing only the front pads, or front and rear? If the former, use only BMW or OEM pads. Do not mix significantly different pad compounds.
  3. My thoughts on various Hawk compounds can be found here.
  4. Rotors rarely warp. The pulsation often misdiagnosed as a warped rotor is more often than not caused by deposits of pad material on the rotor surface. Bedding a new set of pads (or re-bedding the existing ones) will often cure it.
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 07-16-2019 at 05:19 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2019, 07:06 PM
edycol edycol is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Some observations:
  1. HPS 5.0 is a pad compound (friction material). Pad sets using that compound are available for many different cars. If you identified your car correctly when you searched for pads to fit your car, then it will fit.
  2. Are you replacing only the front pads, or front and rear? If the former, use only BMW or OEM pads. Do not mix significantly different pad compounds.
  3. My thoughts on various Hawk compounds can be found here.
  4. Rotors rarely warp. The pulsation often misdiagnosed as a warped rotor is more often than not caused by deposits of pad material on the rotor surface. Bedding a new set of pads (or re-bedding the existing ones) will often cure it.


Putting more aggressive pad on front is fine.
Putting it back is when trouble starts.


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  #6  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:34 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Putting more aggressive pad on front is fine.
Putting it back is when trouble starts.
In theory. But the relative responses of the compounds in question here change with pad temperature.

When the brakes are cold, the HPS 5.0 will not bite as hard as the OE pad formulation. So with Hawks up front and OE out back, the effect is that the rear momentarily does have the more aggressive compound. Bad juju. When the brakes gather some heat, the balance shifts the other way, but not as much because HPS 5.0 is a fairly mild pad upgrade. Putting OE on the front and a "performance" pad on the rear reverses all of the preceding.

In reality, the DSC system will probably smooth over most of that because the differences between the pads in question are moderate. However, it also means the fore-and-aft brake bias no longer matches any assumptions built into the DSC control models, which means it may not respond/handle optimally in an emergency.

Bottom line is that someone who asks "will HPS 5.0 pads fit my car" is not (yet) in a position to be experimenting with brake bias. So, absent that experience or need, the smart advice is "do not change brake pad brand/type unless changing pads at all four wheels."
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 07-16-2019 at 08:53 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:32 AM
edycol edycol is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
In theory. But the relative responses of the compounds in question here change with pad temperature.

When the brakes are cold, the HPS 5.0 will not bite as hard as the OE pad formulation. So with Hawks up front and OE out back, the effect is that the rear momentarily does have the more aggressive compound. Bad juju. When the brakes gather some heat, the balance shifts the other way, but not as much because HPS 5.0 is a fairly mild pad upgrade. Putting OE on the front and a "performance" pad on the rear reverses all of the preceding.

In reality, the DSC system will probably smooth over most of that because the differences between the pads in question are moderate. However, it also means the fore-and-aft brake bias no longer matches any assumptions built into the DSC control models, which means it may not respond/handle optimally in an emergency.

Bottom line is that someone who asks "will HPS 5.0 pads fit my car" is not (yet) in a position to be experimenting with brake bias. So, absent that experience or need, the smart advice is "do not change brake pad brand/type unless changing pads at all four wheels."


I understand that, though mildly upgraded pads are pretty good in response. Still, my argument is that in slick and wet conditions, more aggressive response in the back might create issues. DSC could attempt and maybe mitigate to certain extent, but laws of physics are still there.
I am not big fan of new compound on F30. Not sure whether ATE or Textar offer more bite?


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  #8  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:49 PM
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pdxway pdxway is offline
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I got my pads from Amazon for ~$80 total last November and installed the pads myself:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LY...b_b_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01CF...b_b_asin_title

Still work just fine for day to day driving and highway driving.
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  #9  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:05 AM
NormWild NormWild is offline
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My wife's 345i has got some serious pulsing right now. The place I purchased it is going to "cut" the rotors for free, but this is a solution I have never been fond of. BMW wants $225 per rotor which insane. I found these on Amazon and the price is right, I guess they will work? Dealer says unless they are drilled/slotted from the factory they all had 340mm rotors.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741R67T6...ustomerReviews _sl_

Last edited by NormWild; 09-09-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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  #10  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:23 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormWild View Post
My wife's 345i has got some serious pulsing right now. The place I purchased it is going to "cut" the rotors for free, but this is a solution I have never been fond of. BMW wants $225 per rotor which insane. I found these on Amazon and the price is right, I guess they will work? Dealer says unless they are drilled/slotted from the factory they all had 340mm rotors.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741R67T6...ustomerReviews _sl_
Is it 435i instead of 345i? M or non-M?

The front rotor is 340x30 for non M-sport($140 online), but M sport is 370x30.
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:08 PM
NormWild NormWild is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Is it 435i instead of 345i? M or non-M?

The front rotor is 340x30 for non M-sport($140 online), but M sport is 370x30.
Yes, I am stupid, 435i. Thanks, it does have some M badging, like on the door sill, but the rotors are not drilled/slotted, so assuming 340mm.
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