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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #26  
Old 11-06-2015, 03:20 AM
ChrisChris ChrisChris is offline
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Unfortunately I broke down last night while on the motor way I started to loose power as if I was running out of fuel. The engine would turn over but not start now. So I clearly have bigger issues now that I need to investigate. Oddly I had just done two journeys before that of about 60-miles before hand and the car seemed ok while driving. Now really not sure what to check.
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  #27  
Old 11-06-2015, 06:40 AM
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It is very possible that the car shut itself down because of multiple codes. However the fuel pump in the fuel tank may have failed also. To check that see if the fuel pump is running when the ignition is on without pressing the brake pedal. Another words Insert key in slot. Press start button but don't put your foot on the pedal and see if your getting fuel to the engine. If you're not then the pump is not working in the fuel tank. When was the last time the main fuel filter was changed? I doubt it's blocked if it was running ok before that.
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  #28  
Old 11-06-2015, 07:07 AM
ChrisChris ChrisChris is offline
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The car turns over ok and sorts of splutters but never starts. There is no limp mode warning which it has done on start a couple years ago when things were not good when starting. Basically it tries to start. Which is pipe from the tank? It is possible that the tank pump failed.

I think the fuel filter would have been changed at its 100000 service. But it felt fine before at load and high revs when high fuel flow was needed so I don't suspect the filter.

Do the tanks vent to the air? Or is it controlled only by the tank vent valve? Maybe a vacuum build up might have starved it of fuel?
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  #29  
Old 11-06-2015, 08:29 AM
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Not sure about the vacuum issue. However I doubt it. The system is sealed so vapor does not escape into the air. It goes through the charcoal canister. Pull the line off the front of the fuel filter. Do the start test with someone helping you,so fuel doesn't go all over the ground. Not sure where fuel line enters into the engine compartment.
The fuel rail system is extremely complicated. Check www.realOEM.com to see the assembly. You will understand what I'm talking about. There's 100 page PDF file on the N73 engine. I'll see if I can find the link and post it later. This may help you also. Good luck.

Here's the link to the service bulletin I mentioned above.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...8&d=1341385350

Last edited by Rick in Yuma; 11-06-2015 at 10:56 AM.
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  #30  
Old 11-09-2015, 03:51 AM
ChrisChris ChrisChris is offline
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Many thanks for the document very helpful.
just a quick reply to let you know what I found.

I removed the leakage pipes from the pumps and found fuel so suspected a leak. I opened one pump and found that the diaphragm had delaminated. (I will attach a picture later). Essentially what I could see was that the diaphragm was sealed against the pump housing ok since the ridges on the ting were embossed on the rubber. The diaphragm has slightly stuck to the pump body. However the piece of the diaphragm rubber coating that was exposed to the middle of the ring had separated from the canvas core of the diaphragm. The only thing holding that rubber in place was the little embosed circle in the middle of the diaphragm that was clearly part of the magnafuel manufacturing process.

So now I'm asking, what I did wrong and if this diaphragm is strong enough and how other have made the fix successfully.

I have 2 spare parts that I can use but I need to now figure out why this happened, since if I do the same again it will de laminate again.

Thoughts?
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  #31  
Old 11-09-2015, 05:13 PM
ChrisChris ChrisChris is offline
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See the pictures of both sides of the diaphragm, the fuel side is the side that has survived on the dry side is the one that has delaminated. Looks like its now permeable.
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  #32  
Old 11-09-2015, 05:57 PM
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Chris I sent you a private message.

Here's my thought, several people have opened the pump back up, after using for a short time. To find they had delaminated i'm not sure if the fact that a delaminated is the problem. They seem to distort and delaminate , but are still held together by the retaining ring. One gentleman Indiana did it twice both times when opening the pump found they had the delaminated. After the third repair he still had fuel in the vapor recovery system. Only to find out it was the fuel valve on the firewall that was leaking. Did you check to see if the pump was leaking while the car was running. Or did you assume they were because there was fuel in the line when you pulled the line?

After you do the repair again and clear all the fuel out of the system. Make sure the pumps are running without fuel coming out of the top vapor line. And check the fuel pipe valve on the firewall. Another individual had trouble with the return fuel filter. I had all three fail.( pumps ,valve and fuel filters) before I solve the problem completely... However only did the repair to the fuel pumps once.
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2015, 07:17 AM
ChrisChris ChrisChris is offline
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Unfortunately the current issue is that after I broke down and the engine died while running fast is that the car wont start so I'm unable to check if the pumps are leaking or not or if there is any leaking from the leakage line.
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  #34  
Old 11-18-2015, 11:35 AM
Quad745 Quad745 is offline
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Does anyone know the size of those star-shaped (torx?) bolts? I was trying to look into what tool I would need to properly loosen those.
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  #35  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:26 PM
Quad745 Quad745 is offline
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Another question: if the diaphragm is the true problem, should I see fuel leakage around the top of the pressure attenuator (around where the attenuator, the piece with 3 torx screws attaches to the body of the HPFP?) When I opened the hood and looked for fuel leak with the engine running, I didn't see anything, nor any leakage around the area. Otherwise, my issues are exactly as one would expect with the diaphragm as the culprit (hesitation to start, car intermittently stalls at light, sometimes engine cuts while driving if not actively pushing on gas, problems are worse in the first few moments of starting car)

Overall, could someone explain what I would be seeing if the diaphragm was the problem? Or do I just replace the diaphragm based on the symptoms and see if it fixes the issues.
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  #36  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:49 PM
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Pull the hose off the nipple on the top of the high pressure fuel pump. Have someone start the car if you see fuel pouring out of the nipple. Then it's the pump. If there's no fuel coming out of the top nipple on the pump. Then most likely it's the fuel pipe solenoid valve on the firewall. Pull the line off of that while the car is running. The line facing the outside of the car. There should be no more than a dribble coming out of there at startup. If it's flowing. It pools on top of the high pressure fuel pumps because they're lower.
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  #37  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:52 PM
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The three Penta head security bolts are not Torx. You need to remove them with vice grips. And throw them away after finding replacement Torx head bolts. This is for the next time you repair it. The replacement Torx bolts can be a millimeter shorter but not longer.The 4 other are Torx heads. They hold the pump to the engine block.

Last edited by Rick in Yuma; 11-18-2015 at 01:55 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:58 PM
Quad745 Quad745 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick in Yuma View Post
Pull the hose off the nipple on the top of the high pressure fuel pump. Have someone start the car if you see fuel pouring out of the nipple. Then it's the pump. If there's no fuel coming out of the top nipple on the pump. Then most likely it's the fuel pipe solenoid valve on the firewall. Pull the line off of that while the car is running. The line facing the outside of the car. There should be no more than a dribble coming out of there at startup. If it's flowing. It pools on top of the high pressure fuel pumps because they're lower.
Are you talking about the hose that you labeled "2" on your picture? Just to be clear - the hose that you are referring to is NOT represented on this diagram, right? (I am sort of losing my orientation on this)
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  #39  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:12 PM
Quad745 Quad745 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick in Yuma View Post
The three Penta head security bolts are not Torx. You need to remove them with vice grips. And throw them away after finding replacement Torx head bolts. This is for the next time you repair it. The replacement Torx bolts can be a millimeter shorter but not longer.The 4 other are Torx heads. They hold the pump to the engine block.
Thank you so much for your help. Am I correct in saying the size of the torx bolts are T30? I am trying currently to figure out the size of the pentagon bolts. It would be a good resource to add to the DIY if we could nail down this information since you can get Wiha tools online for cheap if you know the sizes.

Last edited by Quad745; 11-18-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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  #40  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Quad745 View Post
Are you talking about the hose that you labeled "2" on your picture? Just to be clear - the hose that you are referring to is NOT represented on this diagram, right? (I am sort of losing my orientation on this)
The diagram you're showing does not show the nipple on the top of the pump. Go out and look at your car you'll see what I'm talking about. Look at the passenger-side it's the easiest to see. You'll see a brass fitting that's the nipple. Right in the middle of the three penta the bolts. It has a standard hose clamp and a rubber hose attached to it. That's the vapor recovery system. pull that line and start the engine. If there's gasoline coming out of the brass nipple continuously then the pump is bad. attaching photo in the next box. If you still don't understand it PM me your phone number and I'll be happy to talk you through it.

We have tried in vain to find those penta security bolt tools. If you find one good luck everyone else has ground a tool down to make it. Or use vice grips and then swapped out the bolts. Check the other thread on high-pressure fuel pump. Currently about 26 pages long. Start reading out about page 11.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=681883

Last edited by Rick in Yuma; 11-18-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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  #41  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:36 PM
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Here's a photograph of the high pressure fuel pump top. Brass colored area is the nipple.
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  #42  
Old 11-18-2015, 03:06 PM
Quad745 Quad745 is offline
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Thank you so much. I understand now. So it seems that BMW used the pentagon screws because they didn't anticipate that part of the HPFP ever being "serviceable" and they effectively didn't want anyone opening the actuator. Do you have a link to where I could buy the replacement screws once I remove the pentagon screws? If I have missed this in reading I apologize.
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  #43  
Old 11-18-2015, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Quad745 View Post
Thank you so much. I understand now. So it seems that BMW used the pentagon screws because they didn't anticipate that part of the HPFP ever being "serviceable" and they effectively didn't want anyone opening the actuator. Do you have a link to where I could buy the replacement screws once I remove the pentagon screws? If I have missed this in reading I apologize.
Just pull one out and go down to the local nuts and bolts store. They'll match one up for you. You only need three. The other two will hold it together till you get back. Like I said before you won't find exact length just get the closest length but not over.
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  #44  
Old 11-23-2015, 05:36 AM
Cem1988 Cem1988 is offline
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Hi Guys,

I am new on this forum and i am an owner of a bm760li with the same problem

The garage is trying to solve the hpfp and this is the old one:

Does anyone has a suggestion when its not the diagram?
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  #45  
Old 11-23-2015, 06:54 AM
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Cem1988, read my posts prior to this one. Check the fuel pipe valve on the firewall. If that's leaking it may be the problem first. Also the return fuel filter seems to never get serviced and plugs up. Not allowing the vapor recovery system to work properly. Again make sure fuel is coming out of the high pressure fuel pumps before opening them up. If another part of the system is leaking it will mimic fuel pump failure
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  #46  
Old 11-24-2015, 04:22 AM
Cem1988 Cem1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rick in Yuma View Post
Cem1988, read my posts prior to this one. Check the fuel pipe valve on the firewall. If that's leaking it may be the problem first. Also the return fuel filter seems to never get serviced and plugs up. Not allowing the vapor recovery system to work properly. Again make sure fuel is coming out of the high pressure fuel pumps before opening them up. If another part of the system is leaking it will mimic fuel pump failure

Hi Rick,

Thank you for the information. I am not a technician so i gave the car to a bmw specialist. He opened the hpfp but it looks all clean, i have added some pictures.

What shall i do shall i let the diagrams change, they look still good. Do you think the problem is the hpfp? It looks all clean inside.
Ps. as you can see they made some scratches on the parts.
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  #47  
Old 11-24-2015, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cem1988 View Post
Hi Rick,

Thank you for the information. I am not a technician so i gave the car to a bmw specialist. He opened the hpfp but it looks all clean, i have added some pictures.

What shall i do shall i let the diagrams change, they look still good. Do you think the problem is the hpfp? It looks all clean inside.
Ps. as you can see they made some scratches on the parts.
The diaphragm looks good,so I don't think that's the problem. Other members have scratched up that copper bowl before. It has not caused a problem. I don't think it's the pump but something else could be going on inside besides the diaphragm.

Your pump does not look the same as the ones here in the United States. What year is your car?

I would not put magna fuel diaphragms in if yours are good. Our diaphragm fix is only temporary. Make sure your mechanic knows how to put the pump back together. Advise your mechanic only use inch pound torque wrench according to specifications listed above. If you over torque it the pump may not run properly.
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  #48  
Old 11-24-2015, 07:17 AM
Cem1988 Cem1988 is offline
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Thank you for the info. My car is a 760li 2004 model gcc version (Dubai).
I thought the problem would be the hpfp and the bmw specialist said as he could see from the diagnose it should be the hpfp on the second bank. I will tell him tomorrow about your advice.
Ill keep you up to date. The main issue was: stationary rough, shaking while driving and a fuel smell while driving above 30km/h with open windows.
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  #49  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cem1988 View Post
Thank you for the info. My car is a 760li 2004 model gcc version (Dubai).
I thought the problem would be the hpfp and the bmw specialist said as he could see from the diagnose it should be the hpfp on the second bank. I will tell him tomorrow about your advice.
Ill keep you up to date. The main issue was: stationary rough, shaking while driving and a fuel smell while driving above 30km/h with open windows.
I'm not sure your problem is necessarily related to the high-pressure fuel pump. You may have a leak somewhere else in the system. When the high-pressure fuel pump start acting up they fill fuel into the vapor recovery system. It starts throwing all types of codes and misfires. Has your check engine light come on and what codes are showing?
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  #50  
Old 11-29-2015, 01:29 AM
Cem1988 Cem1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rick in Yuma View Post
I'm not sure your problem is necessarily related to the high-pressure fuel pump. You may have a leak somewhere else in the system. When the high-pressure fuel pump start acting up they fill fuel into the vapor recovery system. It starts throwing all types of codes and misfires. Has your check engine light come on and what codes are showing?

There are no engine lights coming. I have been to the maintenance garage today and they are telling that i need to change the hpfp and intake manifold first. But they are not 100procent sure about the hpfp
I dont know what to do now, does anyone sell a refurbished one or a second hand one?
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