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  #1  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:27 AM
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How is this M3 deal?

My current lease ends in 5 months and I'm in the market for a M3. The local dealer is currently offering this deal on a 2017 M3 and they're going to pull ahead my lease by 3 months so I have to cover 2 payments.

MSRP $81,645
Selling price $77,645
Total cap cost $81,744

Doc fee $599
Tax $3,247
Registration $209

36 months/10k miles lease
MF .00150
$0 down
$1177/month

How is this deal? It doesn't look very good to me.
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:58 AM
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Not a great deal at all. Also, I typically see M3s discounted at around $5k. This one is only discounted at $4k. Despite the $1k amount, the real problem for me is the monthly payment. I've been shopping M3s almost exactly like your deal and the best offer I've had is $1035/Mo. as sign and drive. This included tax! I feel with out too much hassle you can save another $100-$150 a month. I've actually had better quotes than $1177 when rolling in my 328's negative equity of $5k.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
My current lease ends in 5 months and I'm in the market for a M3. The local dealer is currently offering this deal on a 2017 M3 and they're going to pull ahead my lease by 3 months so I have to cover 2 payments.

MSRP $81,645
Selling price $77,645
Total cap cost $81,744

Doc fee $599
Tax $3,247
Registration $209

36 months/10k miles lease
MF .00150
$0 down
$1177/month

How is this deal? It doesn't look very good to me.
Did the dealer give you a worksheet with the numbers? Post all the #s, what is the residual % on the car?

Is the $1177/m with tax?
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:04 AM
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M3 cars and discounts aren't that easy to come by due to the gap in production. The doc fee and rolling in two payments on your current car definitely doesn't help.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle11 View Post
Did the dealer give you a worksheet with the numbers? Post all the #s, what is the residual % on the car?

Is the $1177/m with tax?
Yes, it includes tax and all fees.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Vitacura View Post
M3 cars and discounts aren't that easy to come by due to the gap in production. The doc fee and rolling in two payments on your current car definitely doesn't help.
I'm not rolling two payments into the new lease. I will pay that out of pocket.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:14 AM
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You can do a little better on the discount
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2017, 11:25 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
My current lease ends in 5 months and I'm in the market for a M3. The local dealer is currently offering this deal on a 2017 M3 and they're going to pull ahead my lease by 3 months so I have to cover 2 payments.

MSRP $81,645
Selling price $77,645
Total cap cost $81,744

Doc fee $599
Tax $3,247
Registration $209

36 months/10k miles lease
MF .00150
$0 down
$1177/month

How is this deal? It doesn't look very good to me.
Quick comment on doc fees, which are, as we all understand, NOT required government fees. In California the fees are capped by state law and most dealers are charging around $80 to provide whatever "services" are required for documentation. the same 'services your dealer seems to feel are worth $599.

My point is, if the dealer won't do anything on the doc fee, which is a dealer pack, on a 36 month lease I would be looking for about a $15/month reduction in the monthly payment to offset the fatty part of their fee.

Every dollar off per month is $36 savings -- $10/month is $360, and $20/month is $720, which is almost starting to be real money.

In this deal, getting the $1,177 to a nice even $1,100/month puts a whopping $2,772 back into your pocket,and that is really starting to get to be real money.

Leasees are monthly payment buyers -- always good to do the multiplication.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Quick comment on doc fees, which are, as we all understand, NOT required government fees. In California the fees are capped by state law and most dealers are charging around $80 to provide whatever "services" are required for documentation. the same 'services your dealer seems to feel are worth $599.

My point is, if the dealer won't do anything on the doc fee, which is a dealer pack, on a 36 month lease I would be looking for about a $15/month reduction in the monthly payment to offset the fatty part of their fee.

Every dollar off per month is $36 savings -- $10/month is $360, and $20/month is $720, which is almost starting to be real money.

In this deal, getting the $1,177 to a nice even $1,100/month puts a whopping $2,772 back into your pocket,and that is really starting to get to be real money.

Leasees are monthly payment buyers -- always good to do the multiplication.


OP probably lives in a state that doesn't have cap on doc fees. CA is capped at $80, but everything else is through the roof for taxes.
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2017, 12:22 PM
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In Virginia doc fee is capped at $599. But a lot us that lives in the DC area, shop from MD dealers because their doc fee is capped at $300. I will probably just wait and order a 2018 from a MD dealer.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
My current lease ends in 5 months and I'm in the market for a M3. The local dealer is currently offering this deal on a 2017 M3 and they're going to pull ahead my lease by 3 months so I have to cover 2 payments.



MSRP $81,645

Selling price $77,645

Total cap cost $81,744



Doc fee $599

Tax $3,247

Registration $209



36 months/10k miles lease

MF .00150

$0 down

$1177/month



How is this deal? It doesn't look very good to me.


OP just ask to see the Sales Playbook for the trunk money incentive for this month. What is your invoice as I would start from there? Don't forget that the AVP is 5% of the MRSP, so that approx $4,000 is in back end profit to the center. Don't forget the center is paying floor plan insurance and the upcoming MY18 F80 is a minor LCI.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
In Virginia doc fee is capped at $599. But a lot us that lives in the DC area, shop from MD dealers because their doc fee is capped at $300. I will probably just wait and order a 2018 from a MD dealer.


New York is capped at $75, but also has higher taxes like CA. No thank you! Order a PCD MY18 F80 from a New York dealer for the $75 doc fee.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:08 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
OP just ask to see the Sales Playbook for the trunk money incentive for this month. What is your invoice as I would start from there? Don't forget that the AVP is 5% of the MRSP, so that approx $4,000 is in back end profit to the center. Don't forget the center is paying floor plan insurance and the upcoming MY18 F80 is a minor LCI.
OP: BMW is no longer publishing a Sales Playbook. Incentives other than the lease cash credits published at BMWUSA.com are confidential to sales management and your CA will not have access to that information.

You can always ask, but ....

And holdback dollars go to the Center in a lump sum, not as a positive cash number against the individual vehicle. Criteria for CSI, Training, sales volume, etc., must be met to qualify.

And while there was an article posted on the 'Fest about changes to the AVP program for 2017, as of now the 2016 program remains in place.

That's all to the best of my knowledge and data access.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:34 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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All this obsession with Play Books and 'let's see if we can figure out where the back end cash is hiding,' reminds me of the old joke about the man who approaches an attractive woman at a swanky cocktail party. The man asks her, "Would you sleep with me for $100?", to which the shocked woman replies, "Absolutely not!" The man responds with, "Well, would you do it for a thousand?" The woman is taken aback but appears to be contemplating the man's offer. After a moment, she says, a bit more tentatively, "Well, no, I don't think so," to which the man comes back with, "How about 10 grand? Would you sleep with me for 10 grand?" The woman laughs and says, coyly, "What do you think I am?" To which the man replies, "I think, because you've continued this conversation, we've already established what you are. All we're doing here is negotiating price."

Productive negotiations don't require proprietary play books. A willing buyer makes a good faith offer. A willing seller can accept, reject or counter. Done well, and patiently, the bottom will be found and a deal will be struck. If the buyer doesn't want to spend the time or effort, then that buyer will pay more. But only a general knowledge of pricing is required to enter into a successful negotiation. Short cuts, cheat sheets, and the inside scoop are one way to go. I prefer good negotiating skills, applied in good faith by all parties.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:40 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Thank you for putting a grin on my face! Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
All this obsession with Play Books and 'let's see if we can figure out where the back end cash is hiding,' reminds me of the old joke about the man who approaches an attractive woman at a swanky cocktail party. The man asks her, "Would you sleep with me for $100?", to which the shocked woman replies, "Absolutely not!" The man responds with, "Well, would you do it for a thousand?" The woman is taken aback but appears to be contemplating the man's offer. After a moment, she says, a bit more tentatively, "Well, no, I don't think so," to which the man comes back with, "How about 10 grand? Would you sleep with me for 10 grand?" The woman laughs and says, coyly, "What do you think I am?" To which the man replies, "I think, because you've continued this conversation, we've already established what you are. All we're doing here is negotiating price."

Productive negotiations don't require proprietary play books. A willing buyer makes a good faith offer. A willing seller can accept, reject or counter. Done well, and patiently, the bottom will be found and a deal will be struck. If the buyer doesn't want to spend the time or effort, then that buyer will pay more. But only a general knowledge of pricing is required to enter into a successful negotiation. Short cuts, cheat sheets, and the inside scoop are one way to go. I prefer good negotiating skills, applied in good faith by all parties.
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Old 05-04-2017, 03:13 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Thank you for putting a grin on my face! Cheers!
You're welcome!

The other twist on the joke is the man walks up to the attractive woman at the swanky cocktail party and says, "Would you consider sleeping with a man you just met for, say, a million dollars?" To which the woman, after pausing to think for a second, replies, "Well... for a million bucks I might just consider it." To which the man replies, "Would yo do it for a hundred bucks?" To which the horrified woman snaps back, "What do you think I am??" And the man responds, "Well, I think we've established what you are. We're simply negotiating the price down."
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:52 AM
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I refused their initial offer and the dealer just called me back and offer $6000 off MSRP and now it's at $1070/month with $0 down. This is starting to get tempting now...
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I refused their initial offer and the dealer just called me back and offer $6000 off MSRP and now it's at $1070/month with $0 down. This is starting to get tempting now...
Go for it!
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
New York is capped at $75, but also has higher taxes like CA. No thank you! Order a PCD MY18 F80 from a New York dealer for the $75 doc fee.
Doesn't seem like the OP wants to wait until August to take delivery (July production for MY 18). $75 or $599, OP's not getting a rock solid deal at $6k off. I don't think a couple of hundred bucks on a $81k BMW's gonna break his budget. Plus, at least with the doc fee, the dealer makes a little something. Heck, they're even doing buy rate, no less. Great deal for the OP, not so for the dealer. M3's are getting harder and harder to come by anyway.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I refused their initial offer and the dealer just called me back and offer $6000 off MSRP and now it's at $1070/month with $0 down. This is starting to get tempting now...
Does your state require sales tax to be paid upfront on the full sales price? If not, what is the "taxes" included in the cap costs?

And you mention the monthly payment includes tax in another reply. So which is it? Your state require sales taxes upfront or in monthly payments?
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
Does your state require sales tax to be paid upfront on the full sales price? If not, what is the "taxes" included in the cap costs?

And you mention the monthly payment includes tax in another reply. So which is it? Your state require sales taxes upfront or in monthly payments?
VA charges an upfront sales tax and it appears to be rolled in.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
OP just ask to see the Sales Playbook for the trunk money incentive for this month. What is your invoice as I would start from there? Don't forget that the AVP is 5% of the MRSP, so that approx $4,000 is in back end profit to the center. Don't forget the center is paying floor plan insurance and the upcoming MY18 F80 is a minor LCI.

Who cares about the "Sales Playbook". It's none of our business unless we buy a BMW dealership or work in management. Seriously. Whatever the AVP money is is earned by owning a franchise. Floor plan has nothing to do with this deal either and no dealer is pushing the panic button on M3's which are drying up in supply anyway (there won't be any by the time the 18's come in anyway.)

The onus is on the dealer to make a deal or not. They have the tools to do it. Evidently, they're motivated at $6k off. If that doesn't work, have a good day, part as friends and keep shopping or don't buy an M3. They can't apologize for an $81k BMW not fitting within one's budget if they've maximized every aspect of the deal which in this case, looks like it's been done. One can micromanage a deal to death trying to get a good deal and and wind up passing up a great deal fretting about the nuances of how a dealer's going to make a profit or step up and take the offer in front of them. Otherwise, someone else will. Happens all the time.
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:53 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
Who cares about the "Sales Playbook". It's none of our business unless we buy a BMW dealership or work in management.


Nor is proprietary information at all necessary to secure a good, fair deal.

We see from the OP's reports that the price is coming his way.

Always comes down to what a willing buyer will pay and a willing seller will take. I say, offer what feels comfortable and let the dealer figure out which dollars come and go from which pile -- including the hidden piles known only to the high priests of BMWland.

If, collectively, BMW shoppers see less value in the product, BMW will figure out a way to rationalize price to the market.
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:47 AM
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Regardless of what the fence sitters say; it was a good deal at 4K off. It's an amazing deal at 6k off.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:53 AM
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I would get a loaded 340xi at 600 per month. Most of the M3s performance at a 47% discount.
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