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Old 03-24-2017, 02:54 PM
MonkeyBlues MonkeyBlues is offline
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2017 M3 - need clarification on lease incentive and fleet combo

I sent an offer to a few dealerships for a 2017 M3. One CA offered Invoice + $3000 - $2500 lease incentive, another offered MSRP - $1500 - $2500 lease incentive; similar offers put different ways.

However, when I asked them to confirm their offers were before Corporate sales discounts ($1500 off sales price and .0002 MF reduction), the first CA said that the lease incentive would be reduced to $1500, resulting in a net savings of only $500 more.

Worse, the second CA said I could not use both the Corporate discount and the incentive. It was either/or.

I tried to call and email BMW Group Fleet for clarification, but have not heard back yet.

Can anyone provide some concrete information for me? Thank you!!!
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:55 AM
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There is a market allowance of $2,500 on the M3 this month, but if you combine it with Corp Fleet then that market allowance goes down to $1,500.

But that's still $3k off - $1.5 in market allowance and $1.5 in corp fleet.

Your in CA, so I would reach out to Greg Poland at Pacific BMW:

Greg Poland
Sales Manager
800 S. Brand Blvd. Glendale, CA 91204
p: (818) 254-1491 f: (818) 254-1491
e: [email protected]

He will give you a no-nonsense deal right off that bat. I got a vehicle from him in 2013 and was very easy transaction. Additionally he did give me the best deal (price, MF, etc).

Good luck!


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Old 03-25-2017, 10:14 AM
MonkeyBlues MonkeyBlues is offline
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rkinra, thank you so much! That's exactly what I was hoping.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:56 PM
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I have some M3's in stock............ send me an email asap.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:38 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinra View Post
There is a market allowance of $2,500 on the M3 this month, but if you combine it with Corp Fleet then that market allowance goes down to $1,500.

But that's still $3k off - $1.5 in market allowance and $1.5 in corp fleet.
It's difficult with the new way that programs are being run by market area, but this is how we are combining.

In our market, the $2,500 is not market allowance, it is a lease rebate. So you get that. But the $1,500 Fleet lease credit is reduced to $500 (as it will be for all deals next month.) So $3,000 total lease credit.

So up here it would be $500 better (and the rate reduction) to use the fleet program.

I'd check with Greg to see how it is in his market area.

MJB
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:31 PM
Ty Vil Ty Vil is offline
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I don't think the 2500 applies to M's.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:51 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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I don't think the 2500 applies to M's.
Sorry, yes, got caught up in the difference and forgot about the model.

The lease credit excludes Ms and Convertibles up here.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:03 PM
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Tangential question... These 'regional' incentives and plans... Are they based on where the DEALER is, or where the BUYER is? Just curious...
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:06 PM
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Tangential question... These 'regional' incentives and plans... Are they based on where the DEALER is, or where the BUYER is? Just curious...
Thats a great question... subscribed...
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:23 PM
Ty Vil Ty Vil is offline
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The dealer. Our incentives are our market which is AZ, NM and Vegas.

Michael's market is OR, WA and Alaska (I used to work at a BMW store there with DPAd.)
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:51 PM
ard ard is offline
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Yeah, you know where this is going...shoppers may now preferentially target dealers in an 'incentive rich' markets. At least those that can go pick up a car or ship.

Unintended consequences....
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:31 PM
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Yeah, you know where this is going...shoppers may now preferentially target dealers in an 'incentive rich' markets. At least those that can go pick up a car or ship.

Unintended consequences....
Dealer may not sell to people outside of their market too. I find it interesting that BMW is slowing moving in the same direction as other car manufactures in offering different incentives in different regions of the US.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:47 AM
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Dealer may not sell to people outside of their market too. I find it interesting that BMW is slowing moving in the same direction as other car manufactures in offering different incentives in different regions of the US.
Most dealers will sell to anyone willing to buy. Plus if the buyer is on the east coast, it may be easier for them to pick up at PDC.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:25 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
It's difficult with the new way that programs are being run by market area, but this is how we are combining.

In our market, the $2,500 is not market allowance, it is a lease rebate. So you get that. But the $1,500 Fleet lease credit is reduced to $500 (as it will be for all deals next month.) So $3,000 total lease credit.

So up here it would be $500 better (and the rate reduction) to use the fleet program.

I'd check with Greg to see how it is in his market area.

MJB
is the 3k a hard limit on lease credit established by bmws? what happens when the rebates are larger like 5k they have been in the past?

also the 1500 corporate discount end june 30 with sold p1 orders is that correct? thanks
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Yeah, you know where this is going...shoppers may now preferentially target dealers in an 'incentive rich' markets. At least those that can go pick up a car or ship.

Unintended consequences....
I suspect those unintended consequences may ultimately lead to "must be a resident of this state to be eligible".
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:07 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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I suspect those unintended consequences may ultimately lead to "must be a resident of this state to be eligible".


I would b surprised. BMW is too large or a seller to want to or try to limit sales based on region. Only smaller players such as porsche and Land Rover do this.




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Old 05-20-2017, 08:50 AM
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I would b surprised. BMW is too large or a seller to want to or try to limit sales based on region. Only smaller players such as porsche and Land Rover do this.




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I wouldn't be surprised.

Why? Porsche and Land Rover aren't small players. C'mon. They're repected premium luxury brands along with MB and BMW. Even though they have fewer sales points and smaller volumes, they have a significantly higher profit per copy than MB and BMW. I know LR definitely employs those sales tactics. It's like fratricide to them. Sales have been and always will be local. Why throw good money after bad in a blanket way where it's not needed? If one market is struggling to sell a particular model compared to another, why not support that local ecosystem in order to drive sales at the local level and keep the service and parts cycle going there?

Again, incentive poaching from out of state customers may lead to this unintended consequence that ruins it for everybody. For example, I speculate that that's what happened with the ED program. And for good reason. Client's started gaming the system and using domestic incentives on ED's and BMW caught one, dealers complained that it was cannibilizing sales and defeating the whole purpose of the ED experience.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:17 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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is the 3k a hard limit on lease credit established by bmws? what happens when the rebates are larger like 5k they have been in the past?

also the 1500 corporate discount end june 30 with sold p1 orders is that correct? thanks
You get the lease credit from BMW first. It's only contingent upon leasing. But then you drop to $500 on the CorpFleet.

Right now the 40e has $5,000, so it would be $5500 with corp fleet.

And your other question:

The reduction to $500 begins June 1st. But,

"For any vehicles that are on order or in the pipeline and cannot be delivered by 5/31/17, please ensure that the order/vehicle is updated as a Priority 1 noting the purchasing customer's name so that we may honor the $1,500 FS Lease incentive. To qualify, all vehicles must be delivered by August 31."
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:21 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
I suspect those unintended consequences may ultimately lead to "must be a resident of this state to be eligible".
Quick points on the devolution of incentives and unintended consequences.

Incentives were originally designed to move metal and reward/encourage brand loyalty. Hold back was originally designed to help dealers offset flooring and other costs of doing business.

That was in the days when invoices were real and margins between invoice and MSRP were substantial enough to give dealers solid front end profit while still allowing for some negotiation and discounting.

Now, in the world of single-digit MSRP/invoice margins, the real money has to move somewhere else. And manufacturers want more leverage over dealers so they figured out how to use back-end $ to influence dealer behavior regarding how stores look and are staffed and what sort of training is incentivized, and CSI, and loyalty, and, and, and.

As is so often the case, the “smart” people at corporate truly believe they have some deep, data-based insight into how dealers can best run their businesses. And, usually, the germ of a good idea at the corporate level gets twisted, and complexity is added, until the original merit of the idea is not likely to be achieved and, instead, there are unintended consequences. So hold back becomes AVP and the way incentive money is allocated is ever-changing in form and substance.

Reality is, many customers walk in to acquire a car without a deep understanding of all the layers of moving parts. As a result, corporate-level policy makers have figured out that the more complexity that is added, especially in the back end of things, the happier dealers will, theoretically, become, because all the hocus pocus and complexity should create more opportunities for more net margin on sales.

Another result is, on places were enthusiasts gather to share information, such as the Fest, potential customers scratch and dig and query to learn any little nugget about the latest programs. And we are fortunate to have some sponsors and very patient CA’s join with us as best they can without getting themselves sideways with their employers – which we deeply appreciate!

But, bottom line, now there is more fine print, there are more caveats and conditions, and more and more is hiding deeply – so deep that even CA’s, and often even SM’s, don’t know all. Ultimately this will not engender love. Just another unintended consequence.

But, as long as too many cars are chasing too few customers, there will always, always be opportunities for deals, IMHO
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:26 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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You have captured it very nicely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Quick points on the devolution of incentives and unintended consequences.

Incentives were originally designed to move metal and reward/encourage brand loyalty. Hold back was originally designed to help dealers offset flooring and other costs of doing business.

That was in the days when invoices were real and margins between invoice and MSRP were substantial enough to give dealers solid front end profit while still allowing for some negotiation and discounting.

Now, in the world of single-digit MSRP/invoice margins, the real money has to move somewhere else. And manufacturers want more leverage over dealers so they figured out how to use back-end $ to influence dealer behavior regarding how stores look and are staffed and what sort of training is incentivized, and CSI, and loyalty, and, and, and.

As is so often the case, the “smart” people at corporate truly believe they have some deep, data-based insight into how dealers can best run their businesses. And, usually, the germ of a good idea at the corporate level gets twisted, and complexity is added, until the original merit of the idea is not likely to be achieved and, instead, there are unintended consequences. So hold back becomes AVP and the way incentive money is allocated is ever-changing in form and substance.

Reality is, many customers walk in to acquire a car without a deep understanding of all the layers of moving parts. As a result, corporate-level policy makers have figured out that the more complexity that is added, especially in the back end of things, the happier dealers will, theoretically, become, because all the hocus pocus and complexity should create more opportunities for more net margin on sales.

Another result is, on places were enthusiasts gather to share information, such as the Fest, potential customers scratch and dig and query to learn any little nugget about the latest programs. And we are fortunate to have some sponsors and very patient CA’s join with us as best they can without getting themselves sideways with their employers – which we deeply appreciate!

But, bottom line, now there is more fine print, there are more caveats and conditions, and more and more is hiding deeply – so deep that even CA’s, and often even SM’s, don’t know all. Ultimately this will not engender love. Just another unintended consequence.

But, as long as too many cars are chasing too few customers, there will always, always be opportunities for deals, IMHO
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:43 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
You have captured it very nicely.
Thank you. I forgot to mention how, in a world where holding gross is so challenging, the antiquated pay plans many line salespeople have to live with add yet another dimension. The customer is grinding away, trying to get back of invoice, and is asking the salesperson to help get there!
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:30 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Thank you. I forgot to mention how, in a world where holding gross is so challenging, the antiquated pay plans many line salespeople have to live with add yet another dimension. The customer is grinding away, trying to get back of invoice, and is asking the salesperson to help get there!
It's the salesperson's dilemma:
  • If you keep margin, you make a higher commission
    This is great if you can do that all of the time
  • But, below a certain point, it's a minimum flat commission, so it's then just about making the deal
    Do a lot of these and it can be OK.
  • But, the store doesn't want to do this, as there are few "pure volume" sales models that are successful.
  • So then it's the push-pull of the competing priorities of Client-CA-Center
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:08 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
It's the salesperson's dilemma:
  • If you keep margin, you make a higher commission
    This is great if you can do that all of the time
  • But, below a certain point, it's a minimum flat commission, so it's then just about making the deal
    Do a lot of these and it can be OK.
  • But, the store doesn't want to do this, as there are few "pure volume" sales models that are successful.
  • So then it's the push-pull of the competing priorities of Client-CA-Center
So now that we've totally hijacked this thread...

If a dealer sells 100 new cars at an average gross transaction of $60,000/unit and manages to net 2%, that's $120,000 month net to the dealer, after all costs.

If the dealer has $25million invested in the dealership, that $120,000 comes out to just under 6% ROI/year -- before service department and used car sales.

And if a big chunk of that $25million investment is leveraged through loans, and the loan service is part of the overhead that is calculated before we get to the 2% net...

Margins are thin, for sure, but the net dollars are a nice steady waterfall.

A guy I know who made his fortune doing leveraged buyouts of supermarkets explained that the net margin is very skinny for supermarkets -- but, he said, if you think of the gross dollars flowing through a supermarket as a river, and you take a garden hose and siphon off of that river, and the garden hose is always flowing, pretty soon it's a lot of water, even though it is just a tiny fraction of what's flowing down the river.

Which is why I don't mind grinding hard, even though I have sympathy for the plight of the front line salesperson who has to help me rip and tear. Slight sympathy.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:23 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Help me I'm drowning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
So now that we've totally hijacked this thread...

If a dealer sells 100 new cars at an average gross transaction of $60,000/unit and manages to net 2%, that's $120,000 month net to the dealer, after all costs.

If the dealer has $25million invested in the dealership, that $120,000 comes out to just under 6% ROI/year -- before service department and used car sales.

And if a big chunk of that $25million investment is leveraged through loans, and the loan service is part of the overhead that is calculated before we get to the 2% net...

Margins are thin, for sure, but the net dollars are a nice steady waterfall.

A guy I know who made his fortune doing leveraged buyouts of supermarkets explained that the net margin is very skinny for supermarkets -- but, he said, if you think of the gross dollars flowing through a supermarket as a river, and you take a garden hose and siphon off of that river, and the garden hose is always flowing, pretty soon it's a lot of water, even though it is just a tiny fraction of what's flowing down the river.

Which is why I don't mind grinding hard, even though I have sympathy for the plight of the front line salesperson who has to help me rip and tear. Slight sympathy.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:26 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Help me I'm drowning!
Slight sympathy, Mr. Brown. Slight sympathy.
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