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  #1  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:49 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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Employee Discount Nightmare- PLEASE HELP!

Hey Everyone!

This is my first post, so I apologize if it's in the wrong area or what have you. I just wanted to see if anyone would mind helping me out with a Quote on a 2017 X3 s28i MSport package. I had a quote given to me on Thursday (when I went to look alone) only to follow up with a quote that "included" the "Employee Family Discount" (by my Dad who is also CO-SIGNING the lease) on Friday, that is HIGHER than the one the day before and that was because my company offers a better Money Rate (they are apart of the Group Fleet Discount program), blah, blah. The kicker.. the numbers were ALL the same short of the Money Rate being higher for the employee vs. what my company offers apparently). Mind you, BOTH Quotes based on MSRP. ***129300; Employee discounts are STUPID good let me just say so I asked MULTIPLE times where his discount was and the "finance expert" tried to dance around the price, never gave a reason, tried to at one point say we were getting the discount and that I'm just having a hard time understanding. I don't handle stupid very well and my dad HATES controversy so I got the quotes and walked out. BEST PART- the "finance expert" asked the sales rep to come and get the quote from me that I still had from the day before, which was before he came and gave us the "New- employee discount/rates" quote. Too bad I'm more intelligent than that and have pictures and additional copies to prove the differences. What do I do? Or more or less WHERE do I go where they will honor his discount? Pretty clear they don't make hardly anything if anything at all off this sale so they are FINE with us not coming back. But the deal is TOO good to find something else. I don't exactly know what to do because my Dad hasn't had to buy/lease a car in probably 15 years because he leases through BMW and up until he looked on Friday while at work, did he realize family members NOT living in the household could use it. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Please.S. I do have the quoted anyone needs/wants to see that.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:56 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Without the pricing we wont know... I just know that you are in south carolina so you could theoretically order from any dealer in the country and take delivery in the performance center, so your options are basically almost any dealer in the country.

Fleet discount is .00020 money factor discount and some money off the deal.. on a lease its generally 1500 but you dont post any data for us to help you evaluate the deal (with that being said, dont PM me with any data, just post it on the boards so multiple people can help you with it).

personally I dont like games, so I would not buy from someplace where I felt I had to take pictures of a deal they were trying to take away from me to "prove" it so to speak. I am going to take a guess and say if you post your entire deal, its likely we will find its decent but not "stupid good" or anything.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:06 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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This is the 1st quote I received on the car with MY company discount $1500 + 5% off MSRP and .0002

I also only took a picture of the quote to send to my Dad since we were meeting at the dealership the next day. Therefore he could review it before hand.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:13 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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This is the second quote.

The "stupid good deal" would be that of a BMW Manufacturing Employee on leasing or purchase pricing.

Odd to me that a BMW Employee would pay more for a lease than I would working for a random business here. I am not an expert on leasing contracts but after reading through the forums it doesn't appear to me, there was an employee discount given. And he had already contacted HR and they sent him the letter to take for proof as well as all my info.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:14 PM
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Cyb3r H3x Cyb3r H3x is offline
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That money factor is roughly an interest rate of 4% in the first deal then changes to over 5% in the second. That alone with the added hassle should be the clue you need to work with another dealer. My suggestion is to stop wasting your time with them and this deal. Shop around and have it delivered to you or pick it up at the SC performance center. Just my two cents.

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Last edited by Cyb3r H3x; 05-20-2017 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:20 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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Yeah, I think you are right. I just want to make sure that I wasn't wrong about them not giving him the BMW employee discount. This is the first time he's attempted to use the discount so we weren't sure what the best route would be to make sure it's received. BMW dealerships are not affiliated with BMWNA so I am assuming they do not have to honor his discount?
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:26 PM
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Cyb3r H3x Cyb3r H3x is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM7707 View Post
This is the second quote.

The "stupid good deal" would be that of a BMW Manufacturing Employee on leasing or purchase pricing.

Odd to me that a BMW Employee would pay more for a lease than I would working for a random business here. I am not an expert on leasing contracts but after reading through the forums it doesn't appear to me, there was an employee discount given. And he had already contacted HR and they sent him the letter to take for proof as well as all my info.
For illustrative purpose only this is what a good lease deal vs a better lease deal should look like.



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Last edited by Cyb3r H3x; 05-20-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:39 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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Okay, that makes sense. My Dad's BMW discount puts this car under invoice price and based on the numbers I've submitted, we aren't receiving that, right? I calculated the discount he receives, and could be doing it wrong, but just based on the $48,395 MSRP, it's $8k off just to start. And that's based on a previous forum I read where someone posted how to calculate invoice price along with how to order. But in the future, would 8. Initial Cap Cost be the where we see the discounted price?

Last edited by LSM7707; 05-20-2017 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:47 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyb3r H3x View Post
For illustrative purpose only this is what a good lease deal vs a better lease deal should look like.



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Hey, I recognize those MINI lease deal examples -- my handiwork from a few months ago on another forum. I'm flattered.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:01 AM
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First, find a different dealer. You're getting hosed.

Second, neither payment you were quoted includes sales tax.

Third, have I mentioned you need to find a different dealer?

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Old 05-21-2017, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
...
Second, neither payment you were quoted includes sales tax.
[/URL]
Both quotes show $300 sales tax, which I believe is the capped flat maximum amount in SC.

OP, the employee discount should be a fixed deal, so not subject to negotiation. The only variable appears to be the money factor. For some reason, it went way up in your second quote when your Dad got involved. Unless you or Dad don't have top tier credit, the max MF should be .0019 less any employee discount on the MF.

I recommend that you research exactly how the employee pricing works, then go to the dealer armed with that knowledge and make sure they get the pricing and MF correct.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:54 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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OK, let's back up.

The quotes don't show any up front licensing fees

The quotes don't have any monthly use tax not up front sales tax (well, just $300.)

The quotes have two different MFs without any explanation.

How is your father an employee? With the dealership, or with BMW NA? There is a specific program for BMWNA employees.

Way too many unknowns on this one.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:59 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Originally Posted by TXPearl View Post
Both quotes show $300 sales tax, which I believe is the capped flat maximum amount in SC.
Looked it up (not that I doubted, just for confirmation) and that is correct. Thanks forthe knowledge!
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:49 AM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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My Dad heads up the hybrid battery project in Greer, SC. He has been a BMW Manufacturing employee for 15 years. He logged in Friday and looked the discount up just out of curiosity because he thought originally that I would need to live in the same household. He got my infor and submitted his to HR and they sent him a form to take to the dealership. Which we did and he asked them several times if they needed the paperwork and the sales associate said No, that they would get it afterwards?

**Keep in mind the first quote was given to me the day before my dad came with me, before they knew he was an employee or the discount**

It was a very infuriating process considering when we said he had the discount (in which BMWNA states you have to do before you start negotiations) people scattered. Then when the finance advisor brought the second quote, I had no tolerance for much discussion because I knew it was BS. The price of the car never changed- so he wasn't giving him the Employee price and FICO- 886.

I figured the EP of the car isn't a negotiation. It's a set price right? I'm just not sure how to go about the process now. My dad has never used this discount because he gets a new one every 6k miles with the Lease program. So he has no experience with the process. I will NOT go back to Century BMW, but do we have to go to the dealer? Can he order it from BMW himself at his price?

I really appreciate everyone helping and looking this over! I knew it wasn't right!

Last edited by LSM7707; 05-21-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:47 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Here's what you need to know:

PROGRAM DETAILS
  • All approved participants and immediate family members residing in the U.S. will be eligible to lease or purchase an eligible vehicle from a participating BMW Center. All centers are eligible to participate and agree to sell vehicles to BMW Group participants/family members for invoice minus the applicable BMW Group Partner allowance and any incentives that are in place at the time of delivery.
  • BMW will provide a $1500 allowance for vehicles leased or financed through BMW FS and a $3,000 allowance is available for those eligible participants that either pay cash or use alternate financing.
  • If the BMW Group participant elects to lease or finance through BMW FS, any Sales Support Programs in place at the time of delivery can be used. In addition, BMW Financial Services will waive the acquisition fee and security deposit fee for any vehicle leased under the BMW Group Partner & Family Vehicle Lease/Purchase Program.
  • To qualify, the eligible participant must provide your center with a completed BMW Group Partner & Family Vehicle Lease/Purchase Program form, which has been approved by Human Resources/Special Sales and the eligible BMW Group partner.

So, you get invoice less the allowance of $1,500 plus any rebates/incentives at the time.

The $925 Acq fee is waived

It doesn't specify what the money factor should be, nor indicate any MF reduction. What the person likely did on the 2nd quote was use the higher "regional rate" to gain some margin on the deal.

Note that Performance Center Delivery is NOT allowed on this program (nor Euro Delivery.)
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:09 AM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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Okay, yes. This is exactly what my dad read off to me when he was at work Friday. So, when I look at these quote I received before using the Employee discount and the quote afterwards, the price of the vehicle is the exact same. So how do we know we are receiving invoice price of the BMW I choose? Because I'm almost certain he didn't initially give me invoice price on the car.
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:24 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM7707 View Post
Okay, yes. This is exactly what my dad read off to me when he was at work Friday. So, when I look at these quote I received before using the Employee discount and the quote afterwards, the price of the vehicle is the exact same. So how do we know we are receiving invoice price of the BMW I choose? Because I'm almost certain he didn't initially give me invoice price on the car.
Send me the VIN via PM and I can build an invoice for you. I tried to locate it but too many with the same MSRP.

The one I see at Century BMW is not an MSport...

Last edited by MJBrown62; 05-21-2017 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:33 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM7707 View Post
Okay, yes. This is exactly what my dad read off to me when he was at work Friday. So, when I look at these quote I received before using the Employee discount and the quote afterwards, the price of the vehicle is the exact same. So how do we know we are receiving invoice price of the BMW I choose? Because I'm almost certain he didn't initially give me invoice price on the car.
Just a thought, if I may.
Contact the Sales Manager at the dealership.
Thank him/her for taking your call.
Tell him/her that you are a bit confused and need some help. Explain your understanding of the program.
Tell him/her that you would like to come in, see the invoice, and complete the transaction but that you have received differing sets of numbers that have confused you.
Don't accuse anyone of being deceptive or being a liar. Just clearly state your interest in getting the information you need so that you can complete the transaction.

Experience tells us that dealers really, really, like to move cars. Help them to help you help them to move a unit.

If they are evasive or not forthcoming, contact the folks at BMW who manage the program and tell them your sad story.

You will get the car you want at the right price. Just stay cool and friendly, and firm.

Good luck.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:41 PM
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Cyb3r H3x Cyb3r H3x is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Hey, I recognize those MINI lease deal examples -- my handiwork from a few months ago on another forum. I'm flattered.
1968BMW2800 Didn't realize that was your handy work! I saw it and kept it as a reference. Nice work!!

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Old 05-21-2017, 04:42 PM
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Cyb3r H3x Cyb3r H3x is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Just a thought, if I may.
Contact the Sales Manager at the dealership.
Thank him/her for taking your call.
Tell him/her that you are a bit confused and need some help. Explain your understanding of the program.
Tell him/her that you would like to come in, see the invoice, and complete the transaction but that you have received differing sets of numbers that have confused you.
Don't accuse anyone of being deceptive or being a liar. Just clearly state your interest in getting the information you need so that you can complete the transaction.

Experience tells us that dealers really, really, like to move cars. Help them to help you help them to move a unit.

If they are evasive or not forthcoming, contact the folks at BMW who manage the program and tell them your sad story.

You will get the car you want at the right price. Just stay cool and friendly, and firm.

Good luck.
"Experience tells us that dealers really, really, like to move cars. Help them to help you help them to move a unit." - 1968BMW2800

+1

OP or you can contact Greg at Pacific BMW. I read about how he help so many people here on Bimmerfest with deals and delivery.

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Last edited by Cyb3r H3x; 05-21-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LSM7707 View Post
Okay, yes. This is exactly what my dad read off to me when he was at work Friday. So, when I look at these quote I received before using the Employee discount and the quote afterwards, the price of the vehicle is the exact same. So how do we know we are receiving invoice price of the BMW I choose? Because I'm almost certain he didn't initially give me invoice price on the car.
Why is your dad co-signing on your lease? Maybe that is why the MF is so high!
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:35 PM
LSM7707 LSM7707 is offline
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My credit alone wouldn't put me in a Tier 1 but with him helping it would. Seeing as 698 is technically a Tier 2.
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:52 AM
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rkinra rkinra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM7707 View Post
My credit alone wouldn't put me in a Tier 1 but with him helping it would. Seeing as 698 is technically a Tier 2.


There are way too many board sponsors that would work with you on a good deal and not play these games.

The MF on your second quote was .00235, which is way high. Base MF right now is .0015 - .0002 (MF reduction for Corp) should put you at .0013.

Not to mention that the X3 is about to be redesigned in a few months, so you should be getting it at invoice before your incentives.

If you would like, I'd be happy to put you in touch with my CA - D.C. Metro area. He will get you the car you want and give you a no-nonsense deal at base MF.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:07 AM
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Given that this is solely a MF issue, seems worth it to take a shot at your local dealers and try to make the deal work (assuming they have the exact vehicle you want). Since you can't do PCD, that probably eliminates a west coast sponsor as shipping costs would eat up any MF savings. Maybe rkinra's contact would work, but there would still be some frictional costs/inconveniences.

As MJB showed above, it's not clear that there's any MF reduction under the employee program (I'm assuming that the employee deal is different from corp program).
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:38 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Clarification for those responding:

The Program that is being used is not a Corporate Fleet Program. It has different rules, as I outlined on a previous post:
  • It's at invoice, less incentives
  • It does not change the MF in any way. It uses Sales Support rates at the dealer discretion
  • Performance Center Delivery vehicles are not eligible

So unless the sponsor wants to assist with shipping the car to the client, working with a sponsor outside of SC isn't practical.

The bottom line is the OP just needs to find the right X3 locally, bring the form from her father's HR department, and negotiate the rate.

That's it. Easy.

And, just work with the New Car Manager at the store. That person wants to move cars and knows how these works. Bypass everyone else. S/he will find someone to assist with your delivery.
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