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  #1  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:35 PM
Argie340i Argie340i is offline
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I'm ready to buy - Dinan or JB4 tuner

Hi All,

I'm leasing a 340i and ready to plug and play. Called a local and very well respected mod dealer/installer today and they stopped installing Dinan tuners due to all of the issues they had with their customers, so they referred me to another installer in a nearby city.

I also wrote to the JB4 regarding my concern of voiding my lease warranty and they stated that their product would not affect my warranty and to just take out their product before going to get a tune up.

Really looking for some help and advice here. I don't want to deal with any issues down the road. I can wait 2 more years until I can just buy a used or new 3 series and avoid modding my leased 340i.

Any advice appreciated guys
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argie340i View Post
Hi All,

I'm leasing a 340i and ready to plug and play. Called a local and very well respected mod dealer/installer today and they stopped installing Dinan tuners due to all of the issues they had with their customers, so they referred me to another installer in a nearby city.

I also wrote to the JB4 regarding my concern of voiding my lease warranty and they stated that their product would not affect my warranty and to just take out their product before going to get a tune up.

Really looking for some help and advice here. I don't want to deal with any issues down the road. I can wait 2 more years until I can just buy a used or new 3 series and avoid modding my leased 340i.

Any advice appreciated guys
I don't know the issues with Dinan customers, but I have a plug and play in both our BMWs and love it, I'm sure my SA knows it's in there never had a issue with my dealer.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2018, 01:14 AM
JeroM3 JeroM3 is offline
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Any tune/tuner will technically void your warranty. This is regardless of it being software or hardware(like the jb4) piggy back. Even if you remove it all bmw would have to look at are run parameters such as AFR and boost. Whether you get flagged for it during normal service is up to your SA or technician. If you blow up your engine while using it, however, they will definitely poll that history and you might be out the cost of repair.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:02 AM
southcoastguy southcoastguy is offline
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Consider bootmod3 instead of dinan. Less costly and easily installed by owner.
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2018, 05:09 AM
enjoythemusic enjoythemusic is offline
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BM3 is the way i'd go.

Dinan bits mainly came with car here and love it. Great performance.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JeroM3 View Post
Any tune/tuner will technically void your warranty. This is regardless of it being software or hardware(like the jb4) piggy back. Even if you remove it all bmw would have to look at are run parameters such as AFR and boost. Whether you get flagged for it during normal service is up to your SA or technician. If you blow up your engine while using it, however, they will definitely poll that history and you might be out the cost of repair.
The BMW ECU never "sees" the actual AFR & Boost numbers. The JB4 intercepts the sensor inputs & tells the BMW ECU its in range.

So to pick an sample set of numbers. The true boost is 12lbs the BMW ECU sees 8lbs. Throttle demands more boost the BMW increases to see 10lbs but its actually putting out 15lbs.

On most flash tunes it will count the number of times it was flashed. Newer ECU's are harder to crack for flash tuning thats why Dinan after years of ridiculing piggy backs went piggy back. BMS has been doing piggy backs since about 2006 Dinan is somewhat new & less fully featured.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2018, 09:28 AM
Argie340i Argie340i is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroM3 View Post
Any tune/tuner will technically void your warranty. This is regardless of it being software or hardware(like the jb4) piggy back. Even if you remove it all bmw would have to look at are run parameters such as AFR and boost. Whether you get flagged for it during normal service is up to your SA or technician. If you blow up your engine while using it, however, they will definitely poll that history and you might be out the cost of repair.
The BMW ECU never "sees" the actual AFR & Boost numbers. The JB4 intercepts the sensor inputs & tells the BMW ECU its in range.

So to pick an sample set of numbers. The true boost is 12lbs the BMW ECU sees 8lbs. Throttle demands more boost the BMW increases to see 10lbs but its actually putting out 15lbs.

On most flash tunes it will count the number of times it was flashed. Newer ECU's are harder to crack for flash tuning thats why Dinan after years of ridiculing piggy backs went piggy back. BMS has been doing piggy backs since about 2006 Dinan is somewhat new & less fully featured.
Are you a mechanic or is this from personal experience? Sounds like you're saying JB4 is the way to go?
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Argie340i View Post
Are you a mechanic or is this from personal experience? Sounds like you're saying JB4 is the way to go?
No not really a professional mechanic. Been a hobby mechanic since I was 12 or so. Was a school trained (honor graduate) US Army tracked vehicle (APC, AFV, MBT) recovery mechanic for 6 years, was the section head when discharged.

Built about 50 engines, mostly Chevy a few FORD's & a number of cars from the chassis up including the COBRA. Was a tester of the JB4 unit when it was adapted to the 335is model then upgraded to ISO & currently run one on my 135is.

Made my living in International Banking. Was a Senior Vice President & group executive of a global marketing division of one of the largest US financial institutions. Then Managing Director & co-founder of a British financial trading tools development company. We were bought out & I retired in the 1990's.

Just giving my opinion of JB4 vs Dinan piggy back. That said you should consider a flash if you are willing to take a chance that it will not be discovered.

My most effective system on the 335is was the JB4 piggyback unit combined with the COBB ECU flash. Was able to pick the best features of both systems. Also tested that combination for BMS which became the "BMS back end flash". Changes to BMW anti tampering code I believe would prevent that on current cars.

Remember about opinions everybody has one, very smart of you to do research before you buy no matter which way you go.
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 11-01-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2018, 07:05 PM
JeroM3 JeroM3 is offline
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Regardless of what you choose, understand that any mod that alters parameters is detectable in some sort of way. You would be delusional in thinking otherwise. Finding it is just a matter of how deep into the ecu they are willing to dig. Consider that risk before you do anything. I chose bootmod3 on my F80 as it was easy to do and I like the features. I don't hide it and know what the risks are to my wallet. If the engine blows I know it's my fault and will not try to "trick" bmw into paying for the applicable repairs. Likewise I understand what the warranty implications are and what they can and can't deny when it comes to warranty work.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:27 PM
Argie340i Argie340i is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argie340i View Post
Are you a mechanic or is this from personal experience? Sounds like you're saying JB4 is the way to go?
No not really a professional mechanic. Been a hobby mechanic since I was 12 or so. Was a school trained (honor graduate) US Army tracked vehicle (APC, AFV, MBT) recovery mechanic for 6 years, was the section head when discharged.

Built about 50 engines, mostly Chevy a few FORD's & a number of cars from the chassis up including the COBRA. Was a tester of the JB4 unit when it was adapted to the 335is model then upgraded to ISO & currently run one on my 135is.

Made my living in International Banking. Was a Senior Vice President & group executive of a global marketing division of one of the largest US financial institutions. Then Managing Director & co-founder of a British financial trading tools development company. We were bought out & I retired in the 1990's.

Just giving my opinion of JB4 vs Dinan piggy back. That said you should consider a flash if you are willing to take a chance that it will not be discovered.

My most effective system on the 335is was the JB4 piggyback unit combined with the COBB ECU flash. Was able to pick the best features of both systems. Also tested that combination for BMS which became the "BMS back end flash". Changes to BMW anti tampering code I believe would prevent that on current cars.

Remember about opinions everybody has one, very smart of you to do research before you buy no matter which way you go.
Very interesting background you have there. Definitely an opinion I have to respect. I think I have one strong vote for JB4 based on your advice.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2018, 05:32 AM
jack10525 jack10525 is offline
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Another vote for the JB4. I am an avid diy'er. I've seen a few videos on installing the JB4 and it seems very simple to install. Plus the price is not too bad.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Argie340i View Post
Very interesting background you have there. Definitely an opinion I have to respect. I think I have one strong vote for JB4 based on your advice.
Have not run the 435 or 440 since I have the COBRA & my daughters 911 to do back-road, 1/4 mile & autocross. That said thought these numbers for two identical 2011 335is 7DCT cars would be of interest. The 335's had JB4 & FMIC about $800 at the time. The other a full bolt on Dinan Level III system @ $3000+ retail.

195) 12.583*^ 114.529 8.062 90.430 2.070 BMW 335i 335IS 2011 BEAR-AvHistory


196) 12.590*+ 108.740 8.130 87.740 1.960 BMW 335i S Dinan Stage 3 Tune 2011 BuraQ

The Drag Times listing first two numbers are 1/4 mile time & speed. Next two are 1/8 mile time & speed.

Both cars went on to higher performance levels but BuraQ went with RENNtec as a beta tester for their BMW tuner. A 3rd 335is with the same JB4 showed similar results at the same tune level then with added work moved in the high 11's with factory RFT's.

Key things to look at although the times are close BuraQ had a better 60 foot time but was slower in MPH at 1/8th & 1/4 mile. This indicates as both cars weighed the same that the JB4 was generating more power to the wheels.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:39 AM
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i have dinan s4 piggybacking with BM3. i'm very happy.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2018, 08:55 AM
Argie340i Argie340i is offline
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Originally Posted by fondoo1287 View Post
i have dinan s4 piggybacking with BM3. i'm very happy.
Glad to hear you are happy with it, I think I'd feel the same way with extra horsepower, hard not to.

With this being said, I am more so concerned with voiding my warranty and I'm looking for opinions regarding that issue
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:14 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Glad to hear you are happy with it, I think I'd feel the same way with extra horsepower, hard not to.

With this being said, I am more so concerned with voiding my warranty and I'm looking for opinions regarding that issue
There are NO tunes that "preserve warranty". None. Dinan's expensive tune will supplement the BMW warranty if an issue happens and it is determined that the Dinan expensive tune was the cause of the issue .

Dinan's expensive tune does not "preserve" warranty, it will replace it with its own (thats their stage 1 1500 ish dollar tune.

JB4 or the Dinan "cheap" tuner offer no extension of warranty whatsoever, and most of them specifically say something on their website like "for race purposes only" or some such.

If your concern is the warranty, then you should do nothing, or pay the money for the expensive dinan tune.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:06 PM
Argie340i Argie340i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argie340i View Post
Glad to hear you are happy with it, I think I'd feel the same way with extra horsepower, hard not to.

With this being said, I am more so concerned with voiding my warranty and I'm looking for opinions regarding that issue
There are NO tunes that "preserve warranty".

None. Dinan's expensive tune will supplement the BMW warranty if an issue happens and it is determined that the Dinan expensive tune was the cause of the issue .

Dinan's expensive tune does not "preserve" warranty, it will replace it with its own (thats their stage 1 1500 ish dollar tune.

JB4 or the Dinan "cheap" tuner offer no extension of warranty whatsoever, and most of them specifically say something on their website like "for race purposes only" or some such.

If your concern is the warranty, then you should do nothing, or pay the money for the expensive dinan tune.
Some have mentioned unplugging was an option; thoughts on that?
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:46 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Some have mentioned unplugging was an option; thoughts on that?
Sure you could unplug it. I am just telling you that if your concern is the warranty, and staying within that, what the deal is.

If (not saying it would happen, but IF) there was an issue, and a dealer chose to "dig" for information, I am fairly confident that they could figure out that there was a tuner in there. Its not like they have never seen them before.

Many dont care, and / or are willing to take the risk. Thats fine. Its also true that the only issue would be if something hapopens, AND a dealer determines that it was caused by a tuner. They cant invalidate a warranty just because of the tune was installed, but they certainly can check into an issue with an engine for example, and if they find a tune was installed and determine that was the issue, you could be on the hook for that... especially since on a lease its not your car but BMW FSs car.

Its up to you how much risk you want to take. People do it all the time. Each persons decision is up to them. "I" wont do it on a leased car because I dont want even a small possibility of me being on the hook for some massive repair because I wanted more horsepower in my car. Thats me though, you have to decide what you want. I considered it, but found what I am telling you about the warranty situation.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:59 AM
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I'm ready to buy - Dinan or JB4 tuner

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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
There are NO tunes that "preserve warranty". None.

Actually there is "ONE" that does not effect the warranty. The MPPSK is a BMW product and can be dealer or port installed.

While as an add on later, it is not a particularly good value. If purchased with the car and installed at the port it does not sting quite as much.

I am very happy with the sound and the power and have peace of mind that it was developed by the people who made the engine.

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Old 11-10-2018, 07:32 PM
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Actually there is "ONE" that does not effect the warranty. The MPPSK is a BMW product and can be dealer or port installed.

While as an add on later, it is not a particularly good value. If purchased with the car and installed at the port it does not sting quite as much.

I am very happy with the sound and the power and have piece of mind that it was developed by the people who made the engine.

jummo


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Agree. If you car is mostly street driven & you are not looking for the maximum power it works very well. Have it on my last two cars. As part of a lease, port installed, will cost about $1300 out of pocket.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:16 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Actually there is "ONE" that does not effect the warranty. The MPPSK is a BMW product and can be dealer or port installed.

While as an add on later, it is not a particularly good value. If purchased with the car and installed at the port it does not sting quite as much.

I am very happy with the sound and the power and have piece of mind that it was developed by the people who made the engine.

jummo


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Your right, of course. In the context of this discussion I forgot about the MPPSK (M Performance Power and Sound Kit). Its expensive, but fully covered. As you stated, its very expensive to add after the fact (more than the dinan state 1 and WAAAAAAAY more than the JB4 etc) but if one is concerned about the warranty first and formost, its a great choice.
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:56 AM
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Go with Bootmod3 stage 1
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2018, 04:23 PM
[email protected] mike@x-ph.com is offline
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Dinan offers their warranty in case BMW declines to do warranty work

Jb4 offers more power , features and is the more advanced tune for a cheaper price

If it was my car, i would go with the JB4 and just remove it before my dealership visit
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:20 PM
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Just thought I would drop this in as a base line, it is a re-post of my post on another site but the info is current as today. Its about the BMW lap timer on my 440 MPPSK/THP/8ZF

"FWIW this is a free BMW app don't know what models its available for but I have it on my 440 in the Connected menu. I have not played with it & really don't know how to refine the info, will look it up at some point but saw this thread & thought it might be of interest.

The 440 has a factory installed lap timer in the software. Ran a quick 0 to speed limit with a stop at the base of the local interstate on ramp, then did a WOT run to the interstate speed limit. Car in Sport+ shift itself mode.

Test run 0-76 MPH in 5.5 seconds six MPH over the limit so I was already off the gas before 75MPH. Will try a 0-60 run when I figure out how to use it. Factory claims low 4's for the MPPSK/THP package.



Very complete with G load circle, RPM, speed, gear selected, braking effort, throttle position, instruments like oil pressure, temperature etc. Looks like it can "see" & display anything the ECU can. Tied into the GPS so it shows a street map of my run with speeds, braking locations & has GoPro Interface along with most major track layouts. You can basically get all the same data that Car & Driver displays in their detailed Lightning Laps information."
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1998 Ford Ranger 4X4 Splash 5MT
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FFR Cobra Mk-IV COYOTE 5MT Build Thread
480 WHP of BURBBLES
I LOVE THE SMELL OF BURNT 100 IN THE MORNING

Last edited by bear-avhistory; 11-16-2018 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:54 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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I would think the real issue is that OP is leasing. I know it's a value judgement, but why would you dump more money into a car you are basically only renting? Doesn't make sense to me. Neither does adding a MPPSK, since we are talking about an existing lease.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:13 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
There are NO tunes that "preserve warranty". None. Dinan's expensive tune will supplement the BMW warranty if an issue happens and it is determined that the Dinan expensive tune was the cause of the issue .

Dinan's expensive tune does not "preserve" warranty, it will replace it with its own (thats their stage 1 1500 ish dollar tune.

JB4 or the Dinan "cheap" tuner offer no extension of warranty whatsoever, and most of them specifically say something on their website like "for race purposes only" or some such.

If your concern is the warranty, then you should do nothing, or pay the money for the expensive dinan tune.
you sort of lose/confuse your argument interjecting "expensive" in front of Dinan's tune, to connotes negative bias over less expensive JB4. Yes, the Dinan Elite tune is more expensive, but the piggy back warranty, which you pointed out, is a value judgement. For me, the $840 for piggybacking warranty from when I bought my BMW is pretty cheap, that's $210/year or less than one Starbucks frappelattecino per week.
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