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  #1  
Old 12-29-2018, 07:30 AM
zeus800 zeus800 is offline
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P0012 with Blue Driver with Creator 310+ noting 2a82 and 2a87 codes after valve cover

I know this topic has been beaten to death on other forums, but I believe by issue is unique so bare with me... my car is a 2009 328i with 105,000 mi...

Ill try to make this short, so i had by valve cover gasket replaced a year ago by a local indy shop due to small leak in back of gasket, every thing was fine until I got a call from my wife that on her way to work the car was hesitant. Long and short it ended up being a CCV issue -- classic presentation with hight pitched whistling and increased pressure noted when attempting to lift oil fill cap and car went into limp mode.

I purchased BMW brand valve cover (which came with seals) from FCP euro as well as coils (Delphi), spark plugs w/spark metal shims, Eccentric shaft sensor (OEM - VDO/Continental) and replaced it all (battery was disconnected throughout the whole process).

Issues during install was first - due to misfire on cylinder four which was related to coil pack connection with wire harness at that cylinder not being seated well -- which i fixed, but then when i tried to fire the care up the engine wouldn't turn. and got DME error, reason being that despite having negative terminal off during repairs the battery had lost charge so I jumped the car and suddenly everything worked great. there was some slight surging at idle but that resolved. Now for the issue I'm having.

So the error codes that came up were 2A82, and 2A87. I replaced both exhaust and intake solenoids with brand new BMW brand solenoids from dealer, and cleared the codes.

The car idled fine however after rescanned car new error codes of P0012 and P0015 showed up. I cleared all the codes after I cleared adaptations and car check engine light disappeared. I drove the car the remainder of the day with no issues about 30 miles, until the code returned with the code P0012. I already had an appointment with the dealer to replace the PCV valve that was under recall and in the process change the oil.

Prior to the taking to dealer I did unscrew the oil filter cap and noted IT DID have a cage, but I spent the $35 dollars and bought a brand new oil filter cap with new gaskets. The dealer changed the PCV valve and changed the oil. (NOTE: I change oil every 5-7000mi.) I am the original owner of the car.

The next day I drove the car with no problems or check engine light. At a stop light on the way home the car surged ever so slightly to 900-1000rpm and returned to baseline at 650-700rpm. the engine light returned. I swapped the VANOS and in the process I noted that the intake vanos solenoid had little to no oil on it while the exhaust vanos solenoid was covered in oil. After swapping, I reset the code and the car was totally normal with no surging and was idling well as it pretty much had been, UNTIL... later in the day I parked it in the garage and just prior to turning off the engine to get out the check engine light came on AGAIN at about 30mi put on the car, I rescanned the car with the same returning code P0012. I even scanned the car with a Creator 310+ obd2 reader noting 2a82 and 2a87 codes. --- throttle response is sluggish though, ever so slightly

So i have no idea what the problem is -- I do not want to keep throwing parts at the car, but it has been well taken care of and has only 105,000 mi on it.

Possibilities include the following:
- CAMshaft position sensor issue -- though i doubt this -- I have a brand new sensor with o-rings from BMW in box, just reluctant to do it as I was hoping to return the part to get my money back from FCP euro
- timing is truly off -- though hard for me to believe with a chain driven timing
- wire-harness issue -- though i doubt this as well
- cam ledge seals are worn -- though hard for me to believe as engine was changed religiously and car is not driven "hard" and there is no appreciable ticking per se -- the engine sounds and runs smooth, furthermore correct me if I am wrong but my car should have the Teflon rings this less likely for this to occur
- coil pack issue -- as the cars originally coil packs were the bosch kind and I opted for delphi from FCP euro due to reviews and recommendations (note: I did find the connectors from the coil to the harness not to have that nice click feel that bosch coil packs had, though i have read about this before on reviews).
- CRANKshaft position sensor?

I hope anyone can give me some insight or direct me on the right path with this issue; this P0012 code (with Blue Driver Scanner) / 2a82 and 2a87 codes (with Creator 310+ OBD2) solving has become an obsession for me. If you have read this far thank you for listening and your time. I have purchased a INPA K+DCAN from amazon that should arrive tomorrow and I have an old laptop that runs XP will see what I get with that and keep you posted.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Happy New Year

Last edited by zeus800; 12-29-2018 at 07:49 AM. Reason: corrections to post
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2018, 10:28 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Mein Auto: 2007 328xi E91
P0012 = 2a82 & p0015 = 2a87

Perhaps I missed something, but my understanding from reading your post is that essentially the engine performs as it should in all conditions, but it occasionally "hiccups" at idle or has a transient fluctuation in idle speed, and the SES light comes on, accompanied by one or BOTH codes (P0012 or P0015) being saved in DME memory. If that understanding is correct, I would expect the INPA VANOS Encoder Signals screen to show Actual cam position approximately the same as the Setpoint or Control signal computed value at all conditions, UNLESS you happen to be observing during the "hiccup."

If that is correct, then I would suggest do NOT throw any more parts at it. Rather, carefully inspect the wiring and connectors related to the two cam position sensors, and the two VANOS Solenoids, ALL on the front of the engine. What you describe is consistent with an intermittent wiring/ connector fault where everything is fine in the circuit almost all the time, but periodically something in the circuit briefly changes, affecting either the signal from the position sensor, or the "Setpoint" signal from the DME to the Solenoid.

If I understand correctly, you have already installed two new VANOS Solenoids? You also have a New Cam Sensor in box, NOT yet installed? My understanding is that the SAME Cam Position Sensor (same part#) is used on each cam?

Questions:

1) On the FIRST occasion you had ANY VANOS-related code, or any code related to Cam Position, did you get BOTH Intake & Exhuast Cam codes (P0012 AND P0015)?

2) What work on/around the front of the engine had been performed in the days/weeks before any cam-related code appeared?

3) Do you have any oil leak, from OFHG, VCG, ESS seal, etc. on the front of the engine?

4) Has the Serpentine belt or related hardware been replaced recently?

5) On any occasion, have you gotten ONLY one code for just ONE cam (and NOT the other)?

When codes related to two different components of the same system are saved in the DME at the SAME time (check mileage in Freeze Frame Data to confirm that), it is a statistical improbability (almost impossible) that both components "failed" at the same time, particularly when the "failure" was a transient or intermittent "hiccup." So the system should be examined for a point of single "failure" or momentary malfunction that explains BOTH Fault Codes.

Here are the Bentley (p. OBD-8) descriptions of those faults:

P0012 | 2A82 | 'A' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0015 | 2A87 | 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

I presume you realize that the P-code P0012 is just a different "language" for describing the same fault as BMW FC 2A82. When you get INPA installed, you will see that INPA gives you the BMW Fault code (2A82 for Intake Cam Timing Over-Retarded) along with that definition (perhaps in German requiring translation for most of us ;-) AND it gives you the equivalent P-code, P0012.

I presume you also realize you can use INPA (connected to the DME) to (1) read the Input (TO DME) signals from the Cam Position Sensors to "see" cam position in Real Time (Live Data), and you can, on the same screen, (2) read the Output (FROM DME) or "Setpoint" signal ("Sollwert" which is a computed value) that the DME is sending to the VANOS Solenoids to get the VANOS Units to achieve a certain Advance/Retard position. If a Setpoint or Control position does NOT reasonably match the Actual position at certain RPM, Load, Temperature conditions, you can get some data that gives you an indication of what is NOT functioning properly, and under what conditions. On my INPA setup, I get that screen by selecting DME | F5 (Status ) | F4 (VANOS Encoder Signals/Gebersignale VANOS).

A similar screen is found in F6 (Activations/Steuern). That is DME | F6 (Activations) | F1 (Menu 1) | F4 (VANOS Inlet/Outlet). ScreenPrints of each of those screens are attached.

Finally, here is the TIS Circuit Diagram for the "Valve Gear" to assist in understanding function, tracing and testing the wiring, and attempting to identify any failure point that explains multiple Fault Codes:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ording/vOpiTYU

The foregoing does NOT address possible oil pressure issues, which I suppose you were addressing when you changed filter and checked for proper cover & filter attachement. While low pressure or flow rate at idle COULD cause both VANOS units to NOT operate properly, I have trouble with the concept of how that could happen ONLY very sporadically. The concept I have of the system is that low pressure would occur at low RPM and HIGH engine temp when oil is lowest viscosity, and I can't see how that could cause a "hiccup" for a second or two.

BTW, does ANYONE know the effect of LOW oil pressure on VANOS operation? Does insufficient pressure or flow rate cause Advanced position or Retarded position?

Please let us know what you find,
George
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Last edited by gbalthrop; 12-29-2018 at 10:38 AM.
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  #3  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:56 PM
zeus800 zeus800 is offline
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Mein Auto:
Camshaft Bearing Ledge Questions

So the codes returned: 2A82, 2A87. I sent the car back to the shop to have them replace the camshaft bearing ledge. They finally removed the exhaust ledge and showed me the intake ledge. The intake ledge to them looked fine. The only codes they appear to be getting are from the exhaust side prior to disassembly. The head mechanic and owner of the shop told me that it appears the ledge particularly the upper portion of the clam shell appeared worn. Looking at the partial picture of the camshaft i noted that it had the old metalring instead of the new teflon ones even though this car is a 2009 328i sedan (assembled in south africa).

My question now is the following:
1. Does the camshaft appear worn on the limited picture i have posted??
2. Should i replace the entire exhaust just in case now that i am in there, the mechanic believes it looks fine?
3. Should i prophylactically have the intake camshaft seals replaced as well even though the mechanic states it does not appear worn?

***The first three pictures are of the EXHAUST and the Exhaust CAM. The last photo is of the INTAKE camshaft ledge
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  #4  
Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
zeus800 zeus800 is offline
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Mein Auto:
Update #3

So I had the camshaft bearing ledge seals changed as well as the vanos intake and exhaust gears changed and the exhaust vanos code still returns. At this point I don't know what to do. There are only two possibilities left:


1. the DME has issues and needs to be replaced and recoded from BMW (per Indy shop no reports issues from their scanner indicating a DME issue.

2. the eccentric shaft sensor i replaced with a VDO one from the original could be causing communication issues -- though i have been told that this is highly unlikely as this eccentric shaft sensor would not allow the car to run and if there was an issue would cause the exhaust valves during the combustion cycle to remain open and not start and this sensor is separate from the vanos system


if anyone could help me with this I would greatly appreciate this, otherwise my plan is to ship drop in a used N52 engine from a company that carries and sells salvaged car engines of this make and model
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  #5  
Old Today, 04:09 AM
zeus800 zeus800 is offline
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Mein Auto:
only code I'm getting now is a P0015 exhaust cam shaft over retarted
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