Market value vs. book value on my car. WTF? - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:41 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
Her 2008 328i coupe was around $7500 between a/c, control arms and some engine stuff. I forget exactly, as it's been a while. But when the a/c died for the second time in three years and the estimate was $2800 right after the warranty expired we traded it in. Her 2014 X1 is at around $6000 for warranty repairs so far - $4300 for turbo replacement and $1800 for the cracked (plastic) oil pan and gasket replacement.
Got it, those are covered by extended warranty then. $7500 and $6000 payout are pretty good.

My mileage usually is not high enough to get value from extended warranty, as those contracts have lifetime cap plugged at FMV at time of repair, so a 10-yr old F30 at $7k will not get paid more than $7k in claims, lifetime.
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  #27  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:45 AM
Rick Lee Rick Lee is offline
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The 328i looked new and had 28k miles when she bought it in 2010, but was not listed as a CPO. The dealer was kind of shifty on why it wasn't CPO, but they threw in an aftermarket warranty as part of the deal. A year or so later, when Mrs. Lee got into a fender bender with a neighbor, the rear bumper had to be resprayed. The body shop called me down there to take a look when they had it stripped. It had Bondo, so previous repair, but didn't shot on Carfax. That's probably why it was a CPO.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:46 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by John MS View Post
Depreciation should be based on what you paid for the car. Your cost over the life of the car.
Yes my usual math is TOC over that many months, e.g. E39 $47k over 144 months, or $326 monthly, which is Civic lease cost.

My F30 probably is around $11k-13k FMV right now, for $43k total cost including repair + maintenance + tires, so TOC so far (no gas/insurance) is $30k for 78 months, or $386 monthly.
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2019, 06:19 PM
coupedncal coupedncal is offline
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I just want to be sure the total cost of ownership (TCO) aka TOC referenced here does not include the loan or lease payments made during the ownership. All TCO calculators include the depreciation but not the car payments in the calculation


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  #30  
Old 05-03-2019, 08:14 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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TCO/TOC should include the interest portion of the car payment, along with the "opportunity cost." Opportunity cost is the income you would have derived if you had your equity in the car invested instead of being tied up in the car.

I track all my costs for all my vehicles. Here's the actual data for the first five years of my 215 535i, along with projections for the next four years.

I track what I call "Maintenance, Depreciation, Interest, and Property Tax" for my cars. In general, the longer I keep the cars, the lower the MDI&P since new is.

I'm going to change "MDI&P to "Depreciation, Interest, Maintenance, Property Tax, and Lease Expense, or "DIMPLE." Pretty catchy, huh?

The fifth year was easy on maintenance, about $300. I'll need tires, spark plugs, brake fluid, and maybe having my driver's door latch repaired in the sixth year. So, $2k for maintenance this year is realistic.

Even budgeting $2k/year for maintenance, my 535i will be much cheaper to own in the second 50k miles than it was in the first 50k miles. I've tracked this data for my cars for decades, and it's why I dread buying a new car. The last two cars we replaced were twelve years old, and I have another twelve year old car in the garage.
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  #31  
Old 05-03-2019, 11:56 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
TEven budgeting $2k/year for maintenance, my 535i will be much cheaper to own in the second 50k miles than it was in the first 50k miles. I've tracked this data for my cars for decades, and it's why I dread buying a new car. The last two cars we replaced were twelve years old, and I have another twelve year old car in the garage.
My old E39 was also replaced at 12 years and 100k miles, which are typical miles/age that ours get replaced too.

My guess is that your spreadsheet shows leases to be money pits, yes/no?
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  #32  
Old 05-04-2019, 03:49 AM
Estorilb Estorilb is offline
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I DIY all non-warranty maintenance and repairs, most recently a busted foglight on the X1. But I won't own a modern Bimmer out of warranty, not for one day. Mrs. Lee's last two Bimmers had around $12k of warranty work between them in about three years of ownership of each. That's just ridiculous. My old E30 was insanely reliable, never had a mechanical issue in 244k miles, just regular maintenance. Now, get off my lawn!
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  #33  
Old 05-04-2019, 04:09 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
My old E39 was also replaced at 12 years and 100k miles, which are typical miles/age that ours get replaced too.

My guess is that your spreadsheet shows leases to be money pits, yes/no?
Leases are undeniably money pits compared to long term purchases. It all depends on what you value in a vehicle and your financial priorities. I purchased my GTI and in a bit over 2 years Iíll own it outright. By that time Iíll likely have driven it over 100,000 miles and hope to get 2-3 more years out of it.
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  #34  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:27 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
My old E39 was also replaced at 12 years and 100k miles, which are typical miles/age that ours get replaced too.

My guess is that your spreadsheet shows leases to be money pits, yes/no?
It depends on how long you would keep the car if you owned it.

The average new car buyer keeps their car about six years and about 70k miles. Row #36 on my spreadsheet is "Average Monthly Since New - M,D,I, & P." After five years and 57k miles, I was at $960/month. After six years, I should be at around $870/month. I recall that the "sign and drive" lease payment for my car would have been somewhere around $950. So, if you going to replace a BMW sooner than every five years and your annual mileage fits in the leasing plan window (10k to 15k miles/year) or higher, you might as well lease and get a new one every three years.

The big savings from buying and hanging onto a BMW come in the out years, the sixth through twelfth years. I estimate that I will save about $25k by buying my BMW and keeping it 100k miles, instead of leasing.

BMW subsidizes leases by inflating the residual value of the cars. The best of both worlds used to be leasing a BMW, and then shopping around with various dealerships to see who'd sell you the car for the least money after the lease. But, BMW's plugged that loophole and buying your leased car is now at a fixed price determined by BMW, and their fixed price is higher than the fair market value of the car.

I have what I call a "long automotive attention span." I like keeping and maintaining cars a long time. On Planet Putzer, an old car in good shape is a status symbol, demonstrating diligence and intelligence. New cars are the opposite.

If you can slip a BMW lease in as a business expense, paying for it with pre-tax dollars, leasing makes more sense. But, I suspect most BMW lease customers lease because it allows them to drive a more expensive car than they could afford to buy and finance.

A friend of mine is a serial leaser. He leased an 2014 M235i and then a 2017 M240i. The catch is that he only drives his car about 4k miles/year. He has a six-figure salary, but lives paycheck to paycheck. One of my millionaire friends (who drives a ten year old car) thought about asking him to buy the M235i off-lease and sell it to him. But, the serial leaser runs his cars through mechanical car washes, doesn't wax them, parks them in the Floriduh sun, and whacks curbs with the front air dam. My old twelve year old BMW looked better than his three year old BMW.

My serial leaser friend was mewling one day about how he can't afford to retire (no 401(k) and one of his ex-wives gets 25% of his pension for the first few years). I suggested that he buy his M235i when his lease was up. This was before BMW plugged the loophole. He got pissed, saying "I don't want to see any of your spreadsheets. Leasing works for me."

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-04-2019 at 07:50 AM.
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  #35  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:11 AM
John MS John MS is offline
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The big savings from buying and hanging onto a BMW come in the out years, the sixth through twelfth years. I estimate that I will save about $25k by buying my BMW and keeping it 100k miles, instead of leasing.
...

I have what I call a "long automotive attention span." I like keeping and maintaining cars a long time. On Planet Putzer, an old car in good shape is a status symbol, demonstrating diligence and intelligence. New cars are the opposite.
We're members of the buy and hold club too. That club accepts any make of car. When we bought our first BMW in 2014 our hope was that BMW would make a larger 5 series wagon that could replace the then 11 year old Volvo V70 wagon after a few years. Unfortunately BMW followed the market and is emphasizing the SUV and eliminating wagons. So the V70 will continue to be kept up as it edges toward 300,000 miles.
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  #36  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:48 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Where is the fun in driving a decade old car, with old tech (2009 map data! Rudimentary Bluetooth! No web connectivity or autonomous cruise control! And airbag inflators which may or may not still function when y;ou need them!)? The joy of unplanned service visits when stuff breaks? The ecstasy of learning that the replacement part you need for your 2008 sled is no longer available as NOS in the US, and you're going to need to either have one shipped from Germany, or scrounge through junk yards to get your Dymaxion back on the road?

I have a good buddy who has a torrid romance with his Jeep Wagoneer. I get it. It's a fun weekend car, and reminds him of the one in which he lost his virginity. It's his third car, so he doesn't need it to be reliable; if something breaks and it's out of service for a month, it's No Big Deal. He's got a B7 and F Pace to move him around reliably.

All of these arguments that purport to show leasing is a bad idea (A.) don't factor in the peace of mind that comes with not worrying whether Old Bessy will start, or the airbags will work, and (B.) don't factor in the entertainment value of having a new toy. If it costs me a hundred a month more to have something new and shiny, that's short money.

Autoputzer, your friend's problem isn't that he leased nice cars, nor that he married the wrong woman. (Probably more than once). It's that he didn't make enough money.
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  #37  
Old 05-04-2019, 09:28 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Where is the fun in driving a decade old car, with old tech (2009 map data! Rudimentary Bluetooth! No web connectivity or autonomous cruise control! And airbag inflators which may or may not still function when y;ou need them!)? The joy of unplanned service visits when stuff breaks? The ecstasy of learning that the replacement part you need for your 2008 sled is no longer available as NOS in the US, and you're going to need to either have one shipped from Germany, or scrounge through junk yards to get your Dymaxion back on the road?

I have a good buddy who has a torrid romance with his Jeep Wagoneer. I get it. It's a fun weekend car, and reminds him of the one in which he lost his virginity. It's his third car, so he doesn't need it to be reliable; if something breaks and it's out of service for a month, it's No Big Deal. He's got a B7 and F Pace to move him around reliably.

All of these arguments that purport to show leasing is a bad idea (A.) don't factor in the peace of mind that comes with not worrying whether Old Bessy will start, or the airbags will work, and (B.) don't factor in the entertainment value of having a new toy. If it costs me a hundred a month more to have something new and shiny, that's short money.

Autoputzer, your friend's problem isn't that he leased nice cars, nor that he married the wrong woman. (Probably more than once). It's that he didn't make enough money.
I'm with you on the "Old Bessy will start" thing, but at 100k miles instead of 36k miles. BMW's good about keeping parts available for older BMW's. But, you often have to wait for them to come in from Germany.

I can't get a lot of trim parts for my 2007 Cobalt now, though. But, it's going to a nice trailer park next year, to be replaced by a 2020 Chevy Sonic. Most current owners of 2007 Cobalt's are more interested in getting today's fix of meth' or crack than getting a replacement leather seat cover or passenger side sun visor/vanity mirror assembly.

I kept my M3 twelve years and 115k miles. Toward the end, I had reliability and parts delay issues. The last 15k miles in that car is what caused me to set my mileage limit on subsequent BMW's at 100k miles. I went to an M School and I really didn't want to be late getting there. So, I drove my newer Chevy Cobalt instead. Coming back, I had a "rest stop revelation." Driving that Cobalt any long distance sucks. When I got back home, I ordered a 535i.

The tricks to enjoying a car for ten years are: buy a new car that you really love, and take care of it (cosmetically and mechanically). I'd get run-of-the-mill BMW loaners when my M3 was in the shop. It was fun playing with the new gadgets. But, it was more fun getting my old M3 back.

Old airbags, except Takata's, are fairly reliable. The auto manufacturers make sure of that so that the ambulance chasers don't get rich off of them. Although, the early air bags used to require replacement after ten years.

Even the Takata's go off when they're supposed to. The problem with them is the propellant burns too fast after it's baked in the sun for ten years in high humidity.

$100k/year goes a long way here in Bubbaville, Floriduh. When judged on the metric of $/work done, instead of $/year, my M240i driving friend in the highest paid person at the 1400-person lab' I worked at. He does absolutely nothing for his $100k+/year, and his pension will be about $80k/year. His mortgage will be paid off when he retires, so after the alimony thing is over, he'll have more disposable cash in retirement than when he was working. The BMW salesman somehow convinced him that he needed to lease another BMW to prepare for the lean years in early retirement. One should never confuse a BMW salesman for a financial advisor. Their advice will always be to lease or buy a new BMW.

My first car was my dad's old Jeep Wagoneer. The SJ Wagoneer was in production from 1963 to 1991.
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  #38  
Old 05-04-2019, 05:43 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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The tricks to enjoying a car for ten years are: buy a new car that you really love, and take care of it (cosmetically and mechanically). I'd get run-of-the-mill BMW loaners when my M3 was in the shop. It was fun playing with the new gadgets. But, it was more fun getting my old M3 back.
Our cars are usually run of the mill base models with leather seats and upgraded headlights. Moonroof is optional, but no tech nor nav nor adaptive this and that.

These base models stand the passage and test of time better than fully loaded techno marvels.

Another trick that seems to work is to pick black on black, esp. on BMW, as Munich folks like to put on thick clear coat that can handle abuse. E.g. my E39 jet black exterior looked pretty [email protected] miles and 12 years even with just basic polish + wax twice a year. The current F30 jet black got annual wax job(DIY), and it looks ok, to me.
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  #39  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:42 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I read somewhere that BMW puts an extra thick clear coat on the horizontal surfaces of their cars. I suspect the reason is that more than 50% of the BMW's put on the road in the U.S. are leased, and therefore owned by BMW FS for the first three years. Leasers don't take particularly good care of their cars, e.g. my friend who's currently leasing an M240i and runs it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. So, those neglected three year old BMW's are going to get a heavy detailing (polishing) to remove the damage to the clearcoat before they're sold as used cars.

But, that heavy clear coat doesn't make everything right. Modern clear coats have UV blockers in them. But, the UV blockers migrate toward the surface as the clear coat dries. That means that polishing removes a disproportionally large amount of the UV blockers, and that degrades the durability of the paint.

At southern latitudes, dark color cars get too hot and the clear coat burns. I've seen exceptionally well cared for black cars that eventually have the roof and hood paint start chalking up. The hood is the worst: direct sunlight, sunlight reflected from the windshield, and engine heat.

I'm militant about having non-metallic white cars. If a car's not offered with non-metallic paint, I don't buy it. Every new car I've ever bought, except my first one, has been non-metallic white. I was planning to buy a '91 Honda Civic Si, but they discontinued non-metallic white in that year. As I was walking out the door of the Honda showroom, the Honda salesman said "You're not going to buy a car just because it doesn't come in white?"

"Yep, I'm going to the Nissan dealership right now." The '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R's came in white, but didn't have cruise control. So, I walked out of there, too. But, they added cruise control for '92, and I bought one.

I get a lot of enjoyment from a sunroof, and I've never had any trouble with any of them I've owned.

I've owned two F10's, and they are the first cars I've owned with NAV. (My first F10 was involved in an unfortunate mishap and only around 59 days.) My next beater, a Chevy Sonic doesn't offer NAV, so I'll do without. For that car I'll have to use my smart phone and one of those WeatherTech Cup Phone holders. But, I'd pay for NAV if it was offered. BMW doesn't sell NAV update CD's forever. There was a guy with an E60 who switched to an Acura because he couldn't get a NAV update.

I have DHP on my 535i. If it has trouble, that will be an expensive repair bill. DHP is cool, but I could live without it.

After what I learned about UV blockers, I don't polish my cars. I do use a non-abrasive cleaner wax (e.g. Meguiar's Tech Wax). It has a mild, chemical polish. My Cobalt was scratched up from new-car prep. After twelve years of waxing with a cleaner wax the scratches are nowhere near as deep as they were, and are almost completely filled in by a fresh coat of wax. One of the neighborhood hotties was commenting on how shiny my twelve year old, white Cobalt was. When I told her it was twelve years old, she said "Serious?"

My 535i has Merino leather. It's not as durable as the lesser BMW leathers. But the color, Amaro Brown, is striking. When the car came in, there was a steady procession of dealership employees and customers coming by to look at the interior. Between the Merino leather, seat heaters, and the Multi-Coutour seats, the seats in my 535i cost more than my first new car.

We're retired now. So, our cars spend much of the day in the garage and out of sunlight. That's really making a difference on how they age cosmetically. We have three cars, but a two-car garage. I rotate the 535i and the Cobalt between the house and a u-stor-it shed. Our next house will have a true three-holer, with a lift for a fourth car, and a separate, detached one-holer for a fifth car.

I loaded up my two 535i's with options. But, it was stuff I enjoy and which I will enjoy for 100k miles. But, yeah, options depreciate faster and further (usually down to zero) than the base car.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-04-2019 at 09:37 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-04-2019, 09:39 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Our colors have to be solid non-metallic, e.g. black, red, white.

Among the 3, solid white fades fastest in our locales. E.g. plastic bumpers and metal hoods and panels are usually two tones.

Solid red may do worse than white, but red does not stay in our garage for long for some reason.

Solid black also fades, probably by the same amount, but usually mere mortals do not notice.

That is until the solid black needs paint work, and the trained pros in trusted body shops pick out the color cues.

A trusted local body shop used to do all jobs of local dealer. They gave out jet black touch up paints for free, plus paint trim pieces jet black for free! The shop has since been sold to a chain, and the new corporate masters are not that cool anymore ....

Last edited by namelessman; 05-04-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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  #41  
Old 05-04-2019, 09:56 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I've found white holds up better. White is a reflection of the entire visible spectrum. If the paint reflects the entire visible spectrum, it likely also reflects those frequencies just outside the visible spectrum, specifically UV. Black absorbs all of the visible spectrum, so it likely also absorbs UV. Red only reflects red, and red is at the opposite end of the visible spectrum from violet and therefore UV.

Red's better now that cars are clear coated. One of my housemates in college was about 30 years old, had a good job as an electronics tech' for several years before going back for a four-year BSEE degree, and had a beautiful 1980's red Camaro. He took care of it. But, when he washed it, the soap in the bucket turned pink. There's a formerly red Porsche 996 near where I worked that is a daily driver. I say "formerly red" because it's pink now.

I'm with you on avoiding metallic paint. It's real hard to match. Sometimes it can't even be matched at the factory. The current Camaro had bulging rear quarter panels that form a discontinuity with the trailing edges of the doors. GM stopped selling blue Camaros for a while because the quarter panel and door looked different colors because they were viewed at different angles.

There's a theory (not proven) that the metallic specks in paint act as little mirrors and cause UV to attack the clear coat from the bottom.

Soft bumpers of any color are prone to fading differently. They have to have a softener in the paint to prevent it from cracking under slight deformation, and that causes the paint to age differently. I had my Cobalt's rear bumper replaced after some Bubba corn holed me when I was sitting at a red light. But, the rear bumper actually matches the body better than the original front bumper.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-04-2019 at 10:01 PM.
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  #42  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:03 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
But, the rear bumper actually matches the body better than the original front bumper.
Yes been there done that. Our E39 had rear bumper cover replaced. The painter asked if the paint should be matched to original bumper, which was lighter shade than the quad panels. My answer was to match quads, so at least only the front bumper looked different!

My theory of black being better than white(in terms of fade) is that, once cleaned, the black lets the clear coat shine better than white, and the two tones of black are hidden.

And yes, the painters at the trusted shop said to stick to solid color as much as possible, in spite of all those fancy marketing video from Glasurit, Spies and Hecker, Standox, or even BMW ColorSystem!

Last edited by namelessman; 05-05-2019 at 12:07 AM.
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  #43  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:08 AM
Spied4US Spied4US is offline
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Talk about jumping the thread! The OP laments the fact that unknown potential buyers aren't clamoring to own his twice-hit station-wagon for an illusory value stated somewhere online; the tread then veers off onto a discussion of whether he should have leased the dog (complete with colored charts!); and now -- alas, as we leave the OP without a glimmer of hope or solace -- we are learning how much better off he would have been were he a pensioner who retired in Florida owning a white car for at least 10 years. All sticky themes, for sure!
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  #44  
Old 05-14-2019, 05:38 AM
pprior pprior is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
TCO/TOC should include the interest portion of the car payment, along with the "opportunity cost." Opportunity cost is the income you would have derived if you had your equity in the car invested instead of being tied up in the car.

I track all my costs for all my vehicles. Here's the actual data for the first five years of my 215 535i, along with projections for the next four years.

I track what I call "Maintenance, Depreciation, Interest, and Property Tax" for my cars. In general, the longer I keep the cars, the lower the MDI&P since new is.

I'm going to change "MDI&P to "Depreciation, Interest, Maintenance, Property Tax, and Lease Expense, or "DIMPLE." Pretty catchy, huh?

The fifth year was easy on maintenance, about $300. I'll need tires, spark plugs, brake fluid, and maybe having my driver's door latch repaired in the sixth year. So, $2k for maintenance this year is realistic.

Even budgeting $2k/year for maintenance, my 535i will be much cheaper to own in the second 50k miles than it was in the first 50k miles. I've tracked this data for my cars for decades, and it's why I dread buying a new car. The last two cars we replaced were twelve years old, and I have another twelve year old car in the garage.
That's amazing data tracking. Really wish I was organized enough to keep stuff like that. I've always feared keeping cars past warranty because of the risk of very expensive repairs, but seeing longer term data like that (even though anecdotal) makes me rethink my decisions!
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  #45  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:24 AM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
That's amazing data tracking. Really wish I was organized enough to keep stuff like that. I've always feared keeping cars past warranty because of the risk of very expensive repairs, but seeing longer term data like that (even though anecdotal) makes me rethink my decisions!
Where many people go wrong in fearing "very expensive repairs" is forgetting to amortize those costs over the time and/or mileage between events. When compared as a monthly figure to a new-car payment, even a moderately-reliable older car comes out way ahead.

My record-keeping is nowhere near as detailed as Herr Putzer's. The data I do keep, though, show maintenance & repair costs running about $0.15/mile to keep my BMWs in peak condition, a figure has held (inflation-adjusted) for 3.5 cars over 15+ years. At 12,000 mi/yr that's an average of $1,800/yr or $150/mo, which is low compared to a car payment (even with depreciation, etc. thrown back in). Averaged on a different axis, the per-incident cost (total M&R costs divided by number of service items) is around $300.

The key, of course, is these are averages--one needs to have the reserves and/or temperament to absorb an occasional four-figure repair bill without undue stress.
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  #46  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:27 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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My record keeping of each new car is quite simple. When the car was sold, its average monthly is TCO(original purchase price minus resale price minus costs of repair + maintenance and tires, without gas + insurance) divided by total number of months of ownership.

E.g. my old E39 costed a total of $47k for 144 months, so it was $326 monthly.

So far my $41k out-the-door F30 had $600 of maintenance, and $1200 for tires. Its FMV probably is around $11k to $13k, so taking the high end, the TCO right now is around $29.8k, for 78 months.

That is $382 monthly so far for this F30.
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2019, 02:22 PM
pprior pprior is offline
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Such great info. I can easily absorb or set aside that amount of money but always thought overtime I would be making a poor financial decision to do so. Is this with independent shop repairs or bmw dealership?
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:13 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
Such great info. I can easily absorb or set aside that amount of money but always thought overtime I would be making a poor financial decision to do so. Is this with independent shop repairs or bmw dealership?
My $600 maintenance are dealer jobs with BMWNA/dealer coupons

brake fluid + coolant - $300 dealer combo
4 oil changes(including mid-OCI ones), for $85, $50, $70, $70, or $575 total(value service price of $89.99, plus BMWNA coupons).

These prices actually beat local trusted indy prices, but the caveat is that, dealers will tack on "recommendations" of fixes that are not really needed. My strategy is to decline all except imminent issues, and bring to trusted indies for second opinions.
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:13 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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btw my tires were from americastire, although local dealers at times have 4 A/S RFT tires (225/50R17) + BMW spec alignment for $850. which is not too bad if alignment is needed.
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  #50  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:04 AM
pprior pprior is offline
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What is BMWNA? The website just has username and password login.
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