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The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:15 PM
Deliberate1 Deliberate1 is offline
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240i - stick vs AWD

Friends, I am unexpectedly in the market for a new car. Two weeks ago my beloved '09 S5 encountered a deer and it did not go well for either. With 213,000 miles, and repair estimate of $8500, the carrier totaled out the car.
The S5 was the best I have ever owned. Period. German naturally aspirated V8 with six speed and AWD, all wrapped in a sexy steel skin that turned heads even after ten years. Including my own. Da Silva said it was the prettiest car he ever designed, and I could not agree more. Strangers offered to buy my car off the curb. Others would yell their approval from the sidewalk. Appraiser thought it was a '17. Two previous cars were an '01 S4 (265,000 miles) and an '09 A4 (150,000 miles). All with AWD and stick.
Regrettably, Audi, like other manufacturers, have largely left the manual market. And that has left me with few options.
I live in rural Maine and drive 115 miles rt to work every day, snow or not. I have come to rely on and appreciate the added security and control of AWD on those days when staying off the road is the more sensible choice. Blizzaks all around as well. My wife's current vehicle is an '11 X3 i35 (110,000 miles), which was preceded by an '06 530 xi wagon which we ran for 211,000 miles. So I am quite familiar with BMW traction systems as well. My first car was a '72 BMW 2002. The words traction and winter and 2002 do not belong in the same sentence. But I did love that car on dry.
The combination of high performance and AWD is increasingly elusive. Adding a manual tranny into the mix nearly collapses the market. I do not think Audi offers a stick in any of its models. VW offers it in the Golf R but going from the elegant S5 to the Golf R reminds me again how short life is and the need to make choices one will not regret.
So good on BMW for preserving the stick, at least in some of its iterations. And that leads me to the devil's choice. The M240i seems to me a lovely little car that would scratch all my itches. And if it came with both AWD and manual my money would already be on the table. But no such luck. It is one or the other. My head says suck it up, go with the auto tranny and you will thank me when you are on some dark Maine road in a blizzard. And if you want a bit more control over the car (always a good thing when driving in snow) use the paddles. Don't forget about 5" of clearance either. But my heart says, go with the stick and rely on the Blizzaks and sophisticated traction control. It will all be fine. And when the snow melts, you will thank me as you row through the gears, just like you did with that 2002 40 years ago.
So to those of you in snow country having faced the same dilemma, what did you do, and was it the right choice.
Obliged for your thoughts.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:05 PM
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cityjohn cityjohn is offline
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I've driven in Maine in winter, but not very much. My short memory and love for Manuel would have me choosing the stick.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:49 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Go with the auto.

Similar position on "go regardless of plows", although 2 states south. My M235xi eats roads up before the plows are out (not as good as my '04 Passat, though, due to wider tires). Blizzaks on all 4 corners.

Yeah, auto takes a lot of the fun away. Still, if you're out always, RWD is a step back.
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:41 AM
marcozandrini marcozandrini is offline
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Buy the stick and 4 wheels with blizzard. The ground clearance on the M240i isnít very good so you canít drive it in deep snow. My previous car was 2001 330Ci. It came with the original Michelin Pilot Sport tires. Great in the dry, horrible in the wet!! I purchased a set of 4 alloys and blizzaks from tirerack. I never got stuck. Now, I live in metro Washington DC, the land of the stooopudist drivers, so we donít get snow like Maine. Itís all in the tires, IMHO.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:41 AM
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I wonder for how many years folks drove around the snowy winter hills in Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, etc. on the advanced-for-their-time winter tires pioneered over there, but before AWD proliferated among passenger cars? All those folks with their rwd MBs, BMWs, Volvo....how did they ever get anywhere? Probaby a lot of manual transmissions too, considering it was Europe. Hmmmmmm....what to do...what to do?
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:28 PM
Deliberate1 Deliberate1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
I wonder for how many years folks drove around the snowy winter hills in Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, etc. on the advanced-for-their-time winter tires pioneered over there, but before AWD proliferated among passenger cars? All those folks with their rwd MBs, BMWs, Volvo....how did they ever get anywhere? Probaby a lot of manual transmissions too, considering it was Europe. Hmmmmmm....what to do...what to do?
Fair point. Perhaps they did not drive in conditions that many of us now regularly find ourselves in inclement weather. Or perhaps they did and crashed, or feared that they would. That pretty much describes how I felt driving my '72 BMW 2002 in the Maine winter. Studded snows all around was more a placebo than savior.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:44 AM
imtjm imtjm is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Fair point. Perhaps they did not drive in conditions that many of us now regularly find ourselves in inclement weather. Or perhaps they did and crashed, or feared that they would. That pretty much describes how I felt driving my '72 BMW 2002 in the Maine winter. Studded snows all around was more a placebo than savior.
perhaps they did and do, and because they did and do they have compulsory winter tire requirements.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:27 PM
rice_rocket88 rice_rocket88 is offline
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If I lived in Maine I would get the AWD.. there's always people that say it's "good enough" but the fact is that it's still "better" to have awd vs rwd or fwd. The individual has to decide on what will make them the most comfortable. I grew up only driving FWD and RWD with winter tires.. AWD wasn't an option for me because of the budget that I had (and SUV's weren't everywhere). Sure you could get around with winter tires in Canada which is basically a must have. The first 4wd I got to drive was a Jeep Cherokee. It was an amazing difference. No, you can't corner any better or stop any faster, but going up any incline, even turning corners (although a little fishtail is always fun) is better. Getting stuck in deep snow is harder to do (still possibly obviously) But better in every way. Heck, none of my awd cars get stuck on my driveway. The minivan which weighs more than my E60 equipped with winter tires sometimes can't make it past the snow pile the plows leave and so I can't even leave the house.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:22 PM
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Sportstick Sportstick is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Fair point. Perhaps they did not drive in conditions that many of us now regularly find ourselves in inclement weather. Or perhaps they did and crashed, or feared that they would. That pretty much describes how I felt driving my '72 BMW 2002 in the Maine winter. Studded snows all around was more a placebo than savior.
The choice to have fear is personal and we can't help with that. However, would I understand correctly that you never did crash with your 2002? I think you can rest assured that The Alps and surrounding areas in Europe were at least as challenging as what you experience in the winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_rocket88 View Post
If I lived in Maine I would get the AWD.. there's always people that say it's "good enough" but the fact is that it's still "better" to have awd vs rwd or fwd. The individual has to decide on what will make them the most comfortable. I grew up only driving FWD and RWD with winter tires.. AWD wasn't an option for me because of the budget that I had (and SUV's weren't everywhere). Sure you could get around with winter tires in Canada which is basically a must have. The first 4wd I got to drive was a Jeep Cherokee. It was an amazing difference. No, you can't corner any better or stop any faster, but going up any incline, even turning corners (although a little fishtail is always fun) is better. Getting stuck in deep snow is harder to do (still possibly obviously) But better in every way. Heck, none of my awd cars get stuck on my driveway. The minivan which weighs more than my E60 equipped with winter tires sometimes can't make it past the snow pile the plows leave and so I can't even leave the house.
There is no doubt that AWD with winter tires provides superior capability to RWD with winter tires. However, that is not the question. The question is whether the degree of improvement more than offsets the degree of lost benefit of enjoying a MT for every day of the rest of the year for all the years the OP has the car. YMMV, but some of us suggest that equation tilts in favor of the MT.
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:24 PM
Norville Rogers Norville Rogers is offline
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OP, have you considered a 440i coupe? It can be had with both xDrive and 6MT and would be more comparable to your S5. Good luck with your search.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2018, 08:51 AM
BillD1953 BillD1953 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Friends, I am unexpectedly in the market for a new car. Two weeks ago my beloved '09 S5 encountered a deer and it did not go well for either. With 213,000 miles, and repair estimate of $8500, the carrier totaled out the car.
The S5 was the best I have ever owned. Period. German naturally aspirated V8 with six speed and AWD, all wrapped in a sexy steel skin that turned heads even after ten years. Including my own. Da Silva said it was the prettiest car he ever designed, and I could not agree more. Strangers offered to buy my car off the curb. Others would yell their approval from the sidewalk. Appraiser thought it was a '17. Two previous cars were an '01 S4 (265,000 miles) and an '09 A4 (150,000 miles). All with AWD and stick.
Regrettably, Audi, like other manufacturers, have largely left the manual market. And that has left me with few options.
I live in rural Maine and drive 115 miles rt to work every day, snow or not. I have come to rely on and appreciate the added security and control of AWD on those days when staying off the road is the more sensible choice. Blizzaks all around as well. My wife's current vehicle is an '11 X3 i35 (110,000 miles), which was preceded by an '06 530 xi wagon which we ran for 211,000 miles. So I am quite familiar with BMW traction systems as well. My first car was a '72 BMW 2002. The words traction and winter and 2002 do not belong in the same sentence. But I did love that car on dry.
The combination of high performance and AWD is increasingly elusive. Adding a manual tranny into the mix nearly collapses the market. I do not think Audi offers a stick in any of its models. VW offers it in the Golf R but going from the elegant S5 to the Golf R reminds me again how short life is and the need to make choices one will not regret.
So good on BMW for preserving the stick, at least in some of its iterations. And that leads me to the devil's choice. The M240i seems to me a lovely little car that would scratch all my itches. And if it came with both AWD and manual my money would already be on the table. But no such luck. It is one or the other. My head says suck it up, go with the auto tranny and you will thank me when you are on some dark Maine road in a blizzard. And if you want a bit more control over the car (always a good thing when driving in snow) use the paddles. Don't forget about 5" of clearance either. But my heart says, go with the stick and rely on the Blizzaks and sophisticated traction control. It will all be fine. And when the snow melts, you will thank me as you row through the gears, just like you did with that 2002 40 years ago.
So to those of you in snow country having faced the same dilemma, what did you do, and was it the right choice.
Obliged for your thoughts.
Unless you've "test driven" a Golf R...for the $$...the "overall daily driver capability".....the price.....and the new 6 yr 72,000 bumper to bumper warranty...I would not rule out a "peek" at the Golf R...

I took a nice test drive in one yesterday in the storm we had up this way..I'm in Portsmouth NH.
I posted this yesterday on this forum and the BMW 2 series forum.

"Due to the generosity of a forum member local to me in NH, I got to test drive his 18 Golf R DSG earlier today in this wicked nor-easter
rain storm we had today.
I drove maybe 30 miles round trip, highway, main and 2ndary roads. A "real" test drive.
Heavy cross winds, heavy rain, highway speeds 70-75 mph, windshield wipers on.....I was totally shocked
at how nicely, comfortably and quietly, RFT tires, wind/rain and all, the R drove and road even with the 19" wheels.
I drove, the owner changed the various chassis, throttle response and steering settings as I asked.
Adaptive dampers on the Golf R are nicely calibrated. I have adaptive dampers on the M40i.
The R stays planted on the road at all times. Great visibility. Great stereo.
Overall nice car fit and finish...more Audi like.

I'm shopping to replace my former 2016 228i 6MT RWD base coupe I put 38,000 miles on enjoying each one.
Grand kid shuttling...2 doors were no longer working, I traded it for a new X3M40i.....nicest vehicle I've owned yet out
of the BMW or MB stables.

My new vehicle will be a daily driver, 6MT. I'll have the X3 when needed for grand kid shuttling.
I'm tempted to order up a new 2019 BMW M240i 6MT RWD when the end of yr BMW incentives kick in............
but after today's R test drive, 6MT availability, 4 doors and a 6 yr 72,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a $savings over the
the M240i...I'm having 2nd thoughts.

The Golf R is a very nice, fast, daily driver. Practical too with 4 doors.

TBD....thanks !"

Last edited by BillD1953; 10-28-2018 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:07 AM
Sportstick's Avatar
Sportstick Sportstick is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD1953 View Post
Unless you've "test driven" a Golf R...for the $$...the "overall daily driver capability".....the price.....and the new 6 yr 72,000 bumper to bumper warranty...I would not rule out a "peek" at the Golf R...

I took a nice test drive in one yesterday in the storm we had up this way..I'm in Portsmouth NH.
I posted this yesterday on this forum and the BMW 2 series forum.

"Due to the generosity of a forum member local to me in NH, I got to test drive his 18 Golf R DSG earlier today in this wicked nor-easter
rain storm we had today.
I drove maybe 30 miles round trip, highway, main and 2ndary roads. A "real" test drive.
Heavy cross winds, heavy rain, highway speeds 70-75 mph, windshield wipers on.....I was totally shocked
at how nicely, comfortably and quietly, RFT tires, wind/rain and all, the R drove and road even with the 19" wheels.
I drove, the owner changed the various chassis, throttle response and steering settings as I asked.
Adaptive dampers on the Golf R are nicely calibrated. I have adaptive dampers on the M40i.
The R stays planted on the road at all times. Great visibility. Great stereo.
Overall nice car fit and finish...more Audi like.

I'm shopping to replace my former 2016 228i 6MT RWD base coupe I put 38,000 miles on enjoying each one.
Grand kid shuttling...2 doors were no longer working, I traded it for a new X3M40i.....nicest vehicle I've owned yet out
of the BMW or MB stables.

My new vehicle will be a daily driver, 6MT. I'll have the X3 when needed for grand kid shuttling.
I'm tempted to order up a new 2019 BMW M240i 6MT RWD when the end of yr BMW incentives kick in............
but after today's R test drive, 6MT availability, 4 doors and a 6 yr 72,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a $savings over the
the M240i...I'm having 2nd thoughts.

The Golf R is a very nice, fast, daily driver. Practical too with 4 doors.

TBD....thanks !"
Don't doubt your assessment. We also were intially impressed by a sister product, a 2016 Audi A6 3.0T Prestige. Dropped $60k+ on it. Quality problems and dishonest/lacking customer support/denial of warranty followed, hiding defects behind "wear and tear". We dumped it last year and vowed never another nickle to VWAG. Never again! (This had nothing to do with the Dieselgate issue btw). We now have four BMW corporate products, 2015 2 Series, 2018 3 Series, and two 2018 MiniCooper Countryman S (shared platform/powertrain with BMW X1) and all have been outstanding quality and with great service/support. Will never step foot in VW/Audi again and offer the same advice to others.
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VO over Oyster Dakota/Brushed Aluminum/Fiery Orange IP Trim Wrap
Handling Package/M2 Lower Control Arms/KCDesign Strut Brace
Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance Pkgs

Xpel Clear Paint Film/Opticoat Pro
BBS Wheels/PS4S Tires
MPerformance Black Kidney Grilles/Decklid Spoiler
Coding by Alex

2018 330i GT - 100% Stock
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2018, 04:42 PM
808dakine 808dakine is offline
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Stick = FUN. Since you are using as your daily commute, as long as you don't have major stop and go traffic, I'd recommend the stick. Traffic will kill an enjoyment of running through the gears after the first month.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2018, 09:12 PM
justinmaccreery justinmaccreery is offline
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Mein Auto: 2017 M240i
If you haven't yet purchased a M240i 6M, let me try and convince you. After driving a Z370 with winter tires through fierce, unrelenting brutal recurring snow, not only was it a blast to drive in the winter as it drove (and slid) with good balance, the Nissan nannies keep the car under control when I couldn't. Good tires will get you through anything, regardless of the drive-train. Switched to the Beem'r because it has more seat-of-the-pants feeling then the over-nannied Z. Now, I have the sure footed feeling, the right tires, less nannies and a chassis that tells me what's going on. Frankly, it's over-powered. But learning how to deal with that is a lot of fun.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:54 AM
WDC330i WDC330i is offline
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I'll make another suggestion: Go with the M240 stick and add the LSD. That will give you an extra measure of control in bad weather. My E46 M3 was actually quite decent in snow while driving on Michelin Pilot Alpins. Real snow tires (rather than performance snows) would have been even better.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2018, 06:00 AM
marcozandrini marcozandrini is offline
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Actually, you can push the button forward of driving mode button. This gets rid of DSC but provides the electronic LSD. Basically, the ABS system kicks in to prevent the rear wheel that has poor traction from spinning.

Get snows for all 4 wheels. The car will likely come with Michelin PSS which have zero traction in snow.
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